attofishpi wrote:OK, I was wrong to say that. Of course they were miracles. But miracles must have a rational explanation, there is an entity that can change the chemical structure of matter, an entity that controls all conceivable dimensions, and any beyond. Is it God? Is it a sage? Now you see, i would need to start talking about some personal experiences from here on with this line of questioning, and again, this is where it stops.
I'd have thought that a miracle by definition pretty much means that no rational explanation is forthcoming?
If there is not a rational reason for what i experienced, then i may as well be classified as crazier than a pork chop! I assure, i am sane
. Alas, therefore there is a God. And yes, therefore there must be a rational explanation for its existence.
Can a person, if they are crazy, know they are sane?
I didn't say i worship any God, but i suppose i do sometimes. Mostly i am in awe of it. No i am not saying God is alien made. Though i have considered it as a possibility. Let me ask you a question, if you are out walking one day, and everything around you turned plain white as if you were floating in the middle of a cloud and a loud voice called out and said 'I am God!' Then, your surroundings returned to normal and you were again waking through a park. How would you attempt to explain anything? Would you then believe there is a God? If so, would you now try and find a rational explanation for its existence? If not, would you ponder that you are batshit crazy? What alternative are you left with?
Something like this happened to a friend of mine and he became a born-again christian, changed his life and went of to do good works and 'gods' will.
If it happened to me, hmm...difficult to answer how I'd respond to such a powerful occurence. I take it that by 'god' you do not mean a specific 'god' of any specific religion? As my guess would be that this 'god' would be dependent upon ones previous beliefs. Still, as an atheist I'd definitely consider that I may be going mad but then again, given my background, I'd first assume I was having a flashback, barring that I'd think about what in my lifestyle may have caused my unconscious to give me such a powerful event and consider changing it if I didn't like the event, barring that I'd maybe think about how to get the experience back, barring that I think I'd wait to see if it happened again. I'd also think about going and getting a brain-scan as it may be symptomatic of a serious medical issue as whilst voices in ones head may be the normal case for thought, i.e. if we pay attention our voiced thoughts can be, and often are, in a different tone and timbre from our speaking one, although its not usual to notice them so clearly, white-outs are not I think. But because I do not have a belief in 'god/s' I doubt I'd be looking for a rational explanation for 'it' more one for the event.
That there is a third-party entity capable of knowing every synaptic connection within your brain, every thought, as you go about your daily routine. I have tested it. I cant prove it, so again, I shant comment further on this.
This is where you puzzle me, if you can test it then surely you have proved it. Can you provide this test to others such that they could as well and then you'd have more proof.
I do have a metaphysical suggestion that may provide something you'd consider a 'rational' explanation for these events but what would it do for you if you had such an explanation?
Yes.
Again, what would it do for you to discover this hidden thing?
I think you do understand what i as talking about. I think you just want me to earn my words. Ok, a simple example, a virus ascertains that there is anti-virus sware installed on a machine with virus definitions that match its own code. Luckily for my virus in that the AV sware was not running at the time. So this virus bungs in a whole bunch of 'apparent' code, that will never be used to prevent itself from being identified. It identified its environment and found a way to prevent its own destruction.
I have no hidden agenda talking to you nor wish you to 'earn your words', I'm genuinely unaware of virus-writing techniques. Okay, I think I understand now, from my perspective this is not rewriting its algorithm but obeying it. Re-writing would literally be that it altered its procedures and functions with new ones that still performed the same function.
Not sure we can compare a conscious awareness forming from the sparks of an early universe to that of a humans? I didn't ask you to. OK in a round-about way i did, you asked me to define conscious-awareness, so i used our own. I am again asking you, whether you consider it feasible- that an consciously aware entity could form from the primordial soup of the early universe? Dont do it...im warning you
What 'sparks' in the early universe?
Theres no point in asking me to consider something feasible and then telling me not to do it?
Again, you'd have to tell me what you mean by "consciously aware entity" in such a situation, as, as far as I can tell, its only now that the universe has produced such a thing. The time when matter has become complex enough to support such a thing.
Depends which scientist you are speaking to.
Fair point. I look forward to their discovery, as it'd solve a lot of issues. What happens if its not the 'god' of the theists? For that matter, what happens if its not a 'god' at all?
No, please dont turn into my psychiatrist. Just when i actually think we are making some progress they go and put bullets through their heads.
I'm not your shrink, I'm a budding philosopher. Where did you think we were making progress? And what progress was it?