I want to talk to God

[Gary Childress]

Is this what you find APPROPRIATE to TELL children?

Is there something else I should tell you?

YES, the ACTUAL ANSWERS to the ACTUAL QUESTIONS I ASKED you.

OK. What question(s) would you like me to answer?

[Age]

I'm guessing that's the 'argument effect'. People often seem to hold positions in arguments to win rather than to learn anything new.

Definitely. Further, I don't think we learn this way as much as seems implicit in these forums. I think we learn more irl, when experiences confront us. I've been very diverse in my experiences, living in a couple of different countries, for example, working in other languages. And love anomolies and 'characters', people who are different.

EXCEPT when those, LOL, 'people who are different', SHOW your OWN contradictions and/or inconsistencies once to many times, then you completely and utterly IGNORE, which is the PUREST SIGN of being absolutely CLOSED, and thus NOT DIVERSE AT ALL.

I've also engaged in activities connected to beliefs I never, ever would have thought I would come to believe.

I tend to look at websites of people whose views I disagree with and this has helped me immensely.

Here we have ANOTHER example of just how OFTEN the people, in the days when this was being written, would LOVE to EXPRESS how OPEN and/or HONEST they are. But their behavior is what SHOWED otherwise, and the ACTUAL Truth.

And occasionally a character who at least seemed abrasive to me and not interesing, has given me a lot to reflect over, notice and check out. Skepdick is one example here. Sadly he doesn't seem to get much out of interacting with me.

Animals also. Getting as close to experiencing their world with them, their Umwelt.

It's like some kind of warfare strategy to 'hold position' in the midst of engagement. If they later go away and quietly think about things, they still might never be able to acknowledge to being 'wrong' about anything... because being wrong about one thing might mean being wrong about a lot of things, upon which their whole idea of reality is built.

I notice some people integrate criticism without really acknowledging they had something to learn.

Does ANY human being NEED to acknowledge that they have some 'thing' to learn?

After all, is it NOT just an OBVIOUS and IRREFUTABLE Fact that EVERY human being HAS SOME 'thing' MORE and/or ANEW TO LEARN?

For me, it's a relief not to care or worry about that much anymore... and I'm having more fun on the stage of life, as a result. I accept that anything is possible and I continually experience and explore the realm of possibility that fits with the kind of experiences and manifestations I want. No specific destination... just creating art and finding new tools/materials to work with for each situation.

This might sound boastful somehow in written communication online, but people who experience me talking about it in person, see and feel that I'm being genuine and it's easy to connect with just about anyone. I have no specific agenda. I see how we humans are affected and controlled by imagined limitations. I share openly in hopes of demonstrating a larger realm of possibility and the ability to move more freely within it. I hope that other people might discover larger realms for themselves, as well.

Well, we'll see.

[Age]

What you're going to find out, and it's one of the first things one finds out when one starts talking with God, is that you are not actually in control of that. The outcome, I predict, will be different from what you expect; it almost always is. But it's always better than what you had in mind, anyway.

You're going to have to give up the desire to control the outcome. You lose that to God, almost immediately. But He's much wiser than you and I are anyway, so that turns out to be good.

This is very interesting... in that I see the similarities of 'results' between what I.C. attributes to his belief in God and what I experience without any conventional ideas of God.

I left Christianity because I could not convince myself or pretend that the God experience I was fully immersed in made sense, as I saw others pretending and convincing themselves. Despite all of my study, the Bible was a terrible, contradictory guidebook. How could a god be so bad and limited in communication? The answer... it was man's communication and controlling distortions.

And here is A PRIME EXAMPLE of what happens when one BELIEVES that they have arrived AT the final and absolutely, ultimate truth. They CLOSE "them" 'self' off, COMPLETELY, to ANY thing opposing.

Best (for me) to move beyond that!

This is the attitude of one WITH A BELIEF.

What I discovered is a vast realm of possibility and potential which works according to how we focus our energy, and which might be manifested in countless ways. It's very natural and effective. We're all operating within that, but it appears that many of us do it unconsciously and don't realize the primary source of our struggle: what we think about attracts more of that. It's like being stuck on a certain channel that only broadcasts certain programming. Learn to change the channel and discover broader transmissions.

YET you go and DO the EXACT OPPOSITE thing, as PROVED True here.

Like I.C., I receive insight and guidance that might be different from what I'd expect... but it's always better than what I could have imagined. I, too, give up the desire to control the outcome. I recognize that I'm part of a system that is much greater than myself, and there is much potential available to me when I accept being part of and tapping into that system, rather than fighting against it and insisting on my individuality and separateness.

So WHY THEN do you KEEP INSISTING that your BELIEFS are the ONLY and ULTIMATE TRUTH?

I focus on clarity and gratitude -- that seems to be a good channel for receiving insights and abundance to be grateful for.

How much MORE can you SAY and TALK ABOUT in regards to 'you', "lacewing"?

'you' keep going on and on about what 'you' DO and how it is the BEST WAY, and that "others" SHOULD DO what 'you' DO.

Give it a break "lacewing".

So, in considering these similar results for I.C. and myself despite our different paths, I'm wondering about the broader source from which we come... not being at all anything specific according to any of man's religious stories, but rather... a natural creative energy that flows through all, and which can be accessed and utilized by all regardless of whatever ideas/models we might use.

And, for countless centuries that 'creative energy' has been KNOWN as OTHER names, including the 'God' and the 'Creator' words. But which 'you' coincidentally and contradictory do NOT BELIEVE even exists.

How long will it take 'you', human beings, to REALIZE that 'you' have been talking ABOUT the EXACT SAME 'Thing' but have just been USING DIFFERENT WORDS and/or DIFFERENT 'meanings'?

How magnificent! All are part of, and manifestations of, the 'divine' (as we might think of it).

When you say 'all' here, do you mean the 'individual things'? you have, after all, gone about, sometimes, that there is NO 'separation'.

No one is separated out, ever.

So, who and what, EXACTLY, is this one and ONLY 'Thing' here known as 'All'?

Gods and flags and all the division they represent are created only by men.

But there are NONE of these 'things', according to your so-called "logic" as there is NO one separated out, EVER.

[Agent Smith]

Well we could work it out, you know, to increase the odds of a successful communion with God.

[Age]

Is there something else I should tell you?

YES, the ACTUAL ANSWERS to the ACTUAL QUESTIONS I ASKED you.

OK. What question(s) would you like me to answer?

You can START with the question I asked you, which led to this here now.

In case you are not familiar with that question, it was the one that you underlined?

THEN we can move on from there.

[Gary Childress]

YES, the ACTUAL ANSWERS to the ACTUAL QUESTIONS I ASKED you.

OK. What question(s) would you like me to answer?

You can START with the question I asked you, which led to this here now.

In case you are not familiar with that question, it was the one that you underlined?

THEN we can move on from there.

It's not what I think is appropriate to tell children. However, dark and negative thoughts are pretty much the only thoughts that enter my mind most of the time. So it's either share them with kids or lie to them and say something like everything is fine and dandy or else say nothing.

[Age]

OK. What question(s) would you like me to answer?

You can START with the question I asked you, which led to this here now.

In case you are not familiar with that question, it was the one that you underlined?

THEN we can move on from there.

It's not what I think is appropriate to tell children.

Okay great, now we can move along.

However, dark and negative thoughts are pretty much the only thoughts that enter my mind most of the time.

What is this 'mind' 'thing', EXACTLY, which you speak of here?

So it's either share them with kids or lie to them and say something like everything is fine and dandy or else say nothing.

WHY can you NOT just be OPEN and Honest with them, in an APPROPRIATE WAY, INSTEAD?

[Gary Childress]

WHY can you NOT just be OPEN and Honest with them, in an APPROPRIATE WAY, INSTEAD?

Because nothing appropriate ever comes to my mind. I'm always dark and pessimistic. People don't want that around the young. Or at least that's what I've heard.

[Age]

WHY can you NOT just be OPEN and Honest with them, in an APPROPRIATE WAY, INSTEAD?

Because nothing appropriate ever comes to my mind. I'm always dark and pessimistic. People don't want that around the young. Or at least that's what I've heard.

Okay.

[Walker]

I'd like to have a conversation with God. Can someone please point me to where or how I can summon him?

You can approach God like you approach a therapist, with a bunch of complaints.

You can demand that God account to YOU ... for all the dastardly deeds that you perceive committed by humans, animals, and nature.

You can demand that God account for your unhappiness.

Or …

You can take a whole different approach. You can approach God like a Vision Quest. To do that you must prepare yourself with purifications, over time. After preparation, you must ask the proper question in any way you must whether it be silent prayer or shouting to the stars, in order to hear a clear and unambiguous answer.

The proper question is one that takes a whole different approach than what’s familiar and comfortable.

For example, you could ask God, Is there anything I can do for you, today?

If God doesn’t answer right away on your time table, watch out for canoes, boats, helicopters, or anything else that inexplicably might hold your attention and the answer.

This video clip of a scene after a long vision quest is like life.
You need to stay to the end of the dialogue to get the meaning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fdb16Om40E

[Harbal]

For example, you could ask God, Is there anything I can do for you, today?

If God doesn’t answer right away on your time table, watch out for canoes, boats, helicopters, or anything else that inexplicably might hold your attention and the answer.

And that's an acceptable way to respond to a question, is it? To send a canoe in reply.

[iambiguous]

Do me a favor though...

Please ask IC to provide you with the strongest evidence from the videos that would lead a reasonable man or woman to believe that in fact the Christian God resides in Heaven. And please ask him why on earth he refuses to provide me with the link to the most powerful video. I've told him that I will watch it from beginning to end.

Why wouldn't he?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that he himself knows that the evidence is not what he claims it to be.

Is it a single video that has this evidence or is it many videos? I know he's posted multiple things with links in the past. If it's many, then do you just want him to pick out one that will most make a sufficiently acceptable argument?

To the best of my recollection it was 6 YouTube videos. I told him basically that I would watch them if he could provide me with what he construed to be the strongest evidence. He came back [as I recall] with something like "I won't do the work for you". So I asked him to note just the best of the videos. Then "wiggle, wiggle, wiggle" from him.

I mean, I can understand that. No one likes to ask a question and then be spammed with links to enough material to suck up one's free time for the next year.

Yes, that was my point to him. "Okay, I will invest the time if you can note just a single example from the videos." Proof that in fact the Christian God resides in Heaven the way proof can be provided to establish that in fact the Pope resides in the Vatican.

However, it may not be possible to just give a single video, in which case, having your interlocutor put it into his own words might be better. Then there would need to be a process of give and take to sufficiently extract a clear and fair picture of what your interlocutor believes or is saying. Of course, the give and take can be a long, arduous, and time-consuming process also. AND if, in the end, one finds out that the whole process was a waste of that commitment of time, then it can be extremely disappointing. So I understand your frustration. I'm not sure what the best approach to getting that information would be. I don't know if IC will provide it to you on my request or not. But I'll post it as a separate request on your behalf.

Okay, I appreciate that.

The bottom line is that I want to believe in immortality and salvation again. I want someone to offer me the sort of evidence that would at least yank me further away from my current frame of mind...

1] that my existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless
2] that "I" am fractured and fragmented in regard to moral and political value judgments
3] that one day I will die and tumble over into the abyss that is oblivion

[attofishpi]

I'd like to have a conversation with God. Can someone please point me to where or how I can summon him?

You can approach God like you approach a therapist, with a bunch of complaints.

You can demand that God account to YOU ... for all the dastardly deeds that you perceive committed by humans, animals, and nature.

You can demand that God account for your unhappiness.

Or …

You can take a whole different approach. You can approach God like a Vision Quest. To do that you must prepare yourself with purifications, over time. After preparation, you must ask the proper question in any way you must whether it be silent prayer or shouting to the stars, in order to hear a clear and unambiguous answer.

The proper question is one that takes a whole different approach than what’s familiar and comfortable.

For example, you could ask God, Is there anything I can do for you, today?

If God doesn’t answer right away on your time table, watch out for canoes, boats, helicopters, or anything else that inexplicably might hold your attention and the answer.

There's no point Walker. Atheists want evidence prior to be given gnosis of God. They refuse to believe in the life of Christ but want answers from Him...(idiots).

[promethean75]

'refuse to believe'

that sounds strange. think about it. I say it all the time myself too but look at it.

what would not refusing to believe something look like. i know that if i felt i knew something, I'd not be able to refuse to believe what i thought i knew was true. here, to speak of 'belief' as something that is subject to being refused or not, is nonsense. I just now noticed this.

[Walker]

For example, you could ask God, Is there anything I can do for you, today?

If God doesn’t answer right away on your time table, watch out for canoes, boats, helicopters, or anything else that inexplicably might hold your attention and the answer.

And that's an acceptable way to respond to a question, is it? To send a canoe in reply.

Discovering that all the paddles were missing would also be a reply, like the answer the Indian Brave received but did not hear, so they named a lake after him. Do you know the tale and if not, would you like to hear the backstory?