I want to talk to God

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Flannel Jesus
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Re: I want to talk to God

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This is good content, finally
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Harbal
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by Harbal »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:43 pm And be prepared to be shown wrong,
So talking to God is similar to talking to you in some respects, is it, IC?

:)
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Immanuel Can
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Re: I want to talk to God

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Harbal wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:05 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:43 pm And be prepared to be shown wrong,
So talking to God is similar to talking to you in some respects, is it, IC?

:)
Well, it's a normal conversation, really...and you may say that conversation with me is not "normal."

Okay. :wink:
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Lacewing
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Re: I want to talk to God

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Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:50 am In addition to the failed arguments and what we learn from them, I learn to take on other people's thinking...

I think there is a downside. I spend too much time in other people's minds and that happens in real life, there including emotions, their suffering and more. Hm.
That's interesting. Not everyone can do that... you must be intuitive/empathic? It helps in life, I think, to be able to acknowledge various perspectives. It broadens the field from which to craft/chart our own experience while allowing others to craft/chart theirs.
Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:50 amextremely rare I see someone say to someone else, well, I tried X, did it/went to it for 3 months and I find that....
I'm guessing that's the 'argument effect'. People often seem to hold positions in arguments to win rather than to learn anything new. It's like some kind of warfare strategy to 'hold position' in the midst of engagement. :) If they later go away and quietly think about things, they still might never be able to acknowledge to being 'wrong' about anything... because being wrong about one thing might mean being wrong about a lot of things, upon which their whole idea of reality is built.

For me, it's a relief not to care or worry about that much anymore... and I'm having more fun on the stage of life, as a result. I accept that anything is possible and I continually experience and explore the realm of possibility that fits with the kind of experiences and manifestations I want. No specific destination... just creating art and finding new tools/materials to work with for each situation.

This might sound boastful somehow in written communication online, but people who experience me talking about it in person, see and feel that I'm being genuine and it's easy to connect with just about anyone. I have no specific agenda. I see how we humans are affected and controlled by imagined limitations. I share openly in hopes of demonstrating a larger realm of possibility and the ability to move more freely within it. I hope that other people might discover larger realms for themselves, as well.
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by Iwannaplato »

Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm
I'm guessing that's the 'argument effect'. People often seem to hold positions in arguments to win rather than to learn anything new.

Definitely. Further, I don't think we learn this way as much as seems implicit in these forums. I think we learn more irl, when experiences confront us. I've been very diverse in my experiences, living in a couple of different countries, for example, working in other languages. And love anomolies and 'characters', people who are different. I've also engaged in activities connected to beliefs I never, ever would have thought I would come to believe.

I tend to look at websites of people whose views I disagree with and this has helped me immensely.

And occasionally a character who at least seemed abrasive to me and not interesing, has given me a lot to reflect over, notice and check out. Skepdick is one example here. Sadly he doesn't seem to get much out of interacting with me.

Animals also. Getting as close to experiencing their world with them, their Umwelt.
It's like some kind of warfare strategy to 'hold position' in the midst of engagement. :) If they later go away and quietly think about things, they still might never be able to acknowledge to being 'wrong' about anything... because being wrong about one thing might mean being wrong about a lot of things, upon which their whole idea of reality is built.
I notice some people integrate criticism without really acknowledging they had something to learn.
For me, it's a relief not to care or worry about that much anymore... and I'm having more fun on the stage of life, as a result. I accept that anything is possible and I continually experience and explore the realm of possibility that fits with the kind of experiences and manifestations I want. No specific destination... just creating art and finding new tools/materials to work with for each situation.

This might sound boastful somehow in written communication online, but people who experience me talking about it in person, see and feel that I'm being genuine and it's easy to connect with just about anyone. I have no specific agenda. I see how we humans are affected and controlled by imagined limitations. I share openly in hopes of demonstrating a larger realm of possibility and the ability to move more freely within it. I hope that other people might discover larger realms for themselves, as well.
Well, we'll see.
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Lacewing
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by Lacewing »

Immanuel Can to Gary Childress wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:01 pm What you're going to find out, and it's one of the first things one finds out when one starts talking with God, is that you are not actually in control of that. The outcome, I predict, will be different from what you expect; it almost always is. But it's always better than what you had in mind, anyway.

You're going to have to give up the desire to control the outcome. You lose that to God, almost immediately. But He's much wiser than you and I are anyway, so that turns out to be good.
This is very interesting... in that I see the similarities of 'results' between what I.C. attributes to his belief in God and what I experience without any conventional ideas of God.

I left Christianity because I could not convince myself or pretend that the God experience I was fully immersed in made sense, as I saw others pretending and convincing themselves. Despite all of my study, the Bible was a terrible, contradictory guidebook. How could a god be so bad and limited in communication? The answer... it was man's communication and controlling distortions. Best (for me) to move beyond that!

What I discovered is a vast realm of possibility and potential which works according to how we focus our energy, and which might be manifested in countless ways. It's very natural and effective. We're all operating within that, but it appears that many of us do it unconsciously and don't realize the primary source of our struggle: what we think about attracts more of that. It's like being stuck on a certain channel that only broadcasts certain programming. Learn to change the channel and discover broader transmissions.

Like I.C., I receive insight and guidance that might be different from what I'd expect... but it's always better than what I could have imagined. I, too, give up the desire to control the outcome. I recognize that I'm part of a system that is much greater than myself, and there is much potential available to me when I accept being part of and tapping into that system, rather than fighting against it and insisting on my individuality and separateness. I focus on clarity and gratitude -- that seems to be a good channel for receiving insights and abundance to be grateful for.

So, in considering these similar results for I.C. and myself despite our different paths, I'm wondering about the broader source from which we come... not being at all anything specific according to any of man's religious stories, but rather... a natural creative energy that flows through all, and which can be accessed and utilized by all regardless of whatever ideas/models we might use. How magnificent! All are part of, and manifestations of, the 'divine' (as we might think of it). No one is separated out, ever. Gods and flags and all the division they represent are created only by men. :)
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by Lacewing »

Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:42 pm
Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm
I'm guessing that's the 'argument effect'. People often seem to hold positions in arguments to win rather than to learn anything new.
Definitely. Further, I don't think we learn this way as much as seems implicit in these forums. I think we learn more irl, when experiences confront us. I've been very diverse in my experiences, living in a couple of different countries, for example, working in other languages. And love anomolies and 'characters', people who are different. I've also engaged in activities connected to beliefs I never, ever would have thought I would come to believe.

I tend to look at websites of people whose views I disagree with and this has helped me immensely.

And occasionally a character who at least seemed abrasive to me and not interesing, has given me a lot to reflect over, notice and check out. Skepdick is one example here. Sadly he doesn't seem to get much out of interacting with me.

Animals also. Getting as close to experiencing their world with them, their Umwelt.
That's beautiful! Wonderful examples and points. :)
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:12 pm All are part of, and manifestations of, the 'divine' (as we might think of it). No one is separated out, ever. Gods and flags and all the division they represent are created only by men. :)
That would seem to make a lot of sense to me. Sometimes I feel as if Christianity and the churches erected to it are like little states, pyramid schemes--very tribal, very narrow, and very suffocating--at least to me. But maybe they have their own joy and wisdom to experience and frolic in that I just don't know of and never will. I don't know.
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by iambiguous »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:21 am
iambiguous wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:08 am Absolutely shameless.

Here's the thing though...

Sometimes I suspect your posts are just an exercise in irony...a con job. You merely adopt this IC persona here in order make arguments that actually mock those who might really believe them.
I feel certain that IC is not deliberately trying to con anyone. I get the impression that he just has faith in Christ and truly is using the Bible as his guide, following it wherever it may lead him, anchored in the faith that it is a good guide and will not lead him somewhere that he would not ultimately wish to end up.
Well, perhaps he's told you or others that his belief in the Christian God involves a "leap of faith", but that is not what he told me. He explained to me that not only does the Christian God in fact reside in Heaven as the Pope in fact resides in the Vatican but that his "proof" of this revolves around...

1] the fact that it says so in the Christian Bible and
2] the fact that if you view all of the YouTube videos he provided, there is enough proof in them to warrant his claim
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:21 amIC claims he has studied the religions of the world enough to have made an informed decision regarding which one is best to pursue. If that's the case, then, me not being privy to a religious upbringing, I prefer to question him in ways that push the limits of understanding in order to get closer to how Christianity works and why.
Fine. To each his own motivation on a thread like this. But let's not forget what is at stake here when you pick the right God:

1] objective morality [commandments] on this side of the grave
2] immortality and salvation on the other side of the grave

IC actually argues that if others pick the wrong God and refuse to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior their souls are lost. They get "left behind".

But then this:
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:08 pm
iambiguous wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:52 pm Okay, but just to be on the safe side...just in case it's not the Christian God...you might want to contact someone who believes in one of these...
You only have to search until you find. After that, it would be silly to search anymore.

But by all means, search as many alternatives as you would like.
How does that make sense? Study the paths and the Scriptures of some/most/all of these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

And then, when you find one that appeals to you, it would be silly to continue the search until you come to the Christian God?

Tell that to the Mormons and all of the other denominations that witness for Christ and send missionaries around the globe to save souls.


Do me a favor though...

Please ask IC to provide you with the strongest evidence from the videos that would lead a reasonable man or woman to believe that in fact the Christian God resides in Heaven. And please ask him why on earth he refuses to provide me with the link to the most powerful video. I've told him that I will watch it from beginning to end.

Why wouldn't he?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that he himself knows that the evidence is not what he claims it to be.
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by Gary Childress »

iambiguous wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:57 pm Do me a favor though...

Please ask IC to provide you with the strongest evidence from the videos that would lead a reasonable man or woman to believe that in fact the Christian God resides in Heaven. And please ask him why on earth he refuses to provide me with the link to the most powerful video. I've told him that I will watch it from beginning to end.

Why wouldn't he?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that he himself knows that the evidence is not what he claims it to be.
Is it a single video that has this evidence or is it many videos? I know he's posted multiple things with links in the past. If it's many, then do you just want him to pick out one that will most make a sufficiently acceptable argument? I mean, I can understand that. No one likes to ask a question and then be spammed with links to enough material to suck up one's free time for the next year. However, it may not be possible to just give a single video, in which case, having your interlocutor put it into his own words might be better. Then there would need to be a process of give and take to sufficiently extract a clear and fair picture of what your interlocutor believes or is saying. Of course, the give and take can be a long, arduous, and time-consuming process also. AND if, in the end, one finds out that the whole process was a waste of that commitment of time, then it can be extremely disappointing. So I understand your frustration. I'm not sure what the best approach to getting that information would be. I don't know if IC will provide it to you on my request or not. But I'll post it as a separate request on your behalf.
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by Lacewing »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:51 pm Sometimes I feel as if Christianity and the churches erected to it are like little states, pyramid schemes--very tribal, very narrow, and very suffocating--at least to me. But maybe they have their own joy and wisdom to experience...
Yes, seems like there's a bit of everything... and we always have to navigate things using our own good sense no matter what other people may claim. Often can't trust anyone or anything unless we investigate it for ourselves because it may not suit us even if it suits other people. People believe all kinds of things and use all kinds of tools for different reasons that suit themselves. I think the beliefs and the tools are only as good as how they're used. People often even idolize them and pretend to be experts. Whatever! :lol: I think it's helpful to recognize the usefulness of tools everywhere and not get tied down or be limited to any particular ones.
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Request for Immanuel Can

Post by Gary Childress »

Dear, IC:

iambiguous would like for you to
[please provide] the strongest evidence from the videos that would lead a reasonable man or woman to believe that in fact the Christian God resides in Heaven. And please ask him [IC] why on earth he refuses to provide me [iambiguous] with the link to the most powerful video.
Age
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by Age »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:39 pm
Age wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:34 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:29 pm

How old are you "Age"? Serious question.
And one I WOULD answer, seriously, IF it had ANY BEARING on absolutely ANY thing here.
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:29 pm I take it from hints you've dropped that you are either not an "adult human" or else not "human".
SO, INSTEAD of just FINDING OUT what I ACTUALLY MEANT, you DECIDED to ASSUME some 'things', FIRST, correct?
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:29 pm if it's the former (you're not an adult human) then I'm sorry for not being a better example of adulthood. I have issues that are difficult to lock away out of sight of the young ones. I sometimes accidentally say things that parents may not approve of children hearing or sometimes just don't know what to say to children at all. Therefore I don't typically hang around children. And I have no children. I don't want to bring children into this world.
Is this what you find APPROPRIATE to TELL children?
Is there something else I should tell you?
YES, the ACTUAL ANSWERS to the ACTUAL QUESTIONS I ASKED you.
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:39 pm Should I tell you there's a Santa Claus or that life will be just fine and dandy? What sort of things do you want me to tell you? Or would you rather I just not tell you anything?
ONCE AGAIN, you completely and utterly seem to have MISSED or MISUNDERSTOOD the ACTUAL QUESTION that I posed, and was asking you, for CLARIFICATION.

And this is because you DRIFTED OFF in your OWN thoughts, because of ASSUMING 'things', instead of just being TOTALLY and Truly OPEN and Honest, INSTEAD.
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by Age »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:13 pm
Harbal wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:05 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:43 pm And be prepared to be shown wrong,
So talking to God is similar to talking to you in some respects, is it, IC?

:)
Well, it's a normal conversation, really...and you may say that conversation with me is not "normal."

Okay. :wink:
Here we have ANOTHER example of ANOTHER good ATTEMPT AT DEFLECTION, INSTEAD of just being Truly OPEN and Honest. This was a VERY COMMON trait among adult human beings, in the days when this was being written.
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Re: I want to talk to God

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:50 am In addition to the failed arguments and what we learn from them, I learn to take on other people's thinking...

I think there is a downside. I spend too much time in other people's minds and that happens in real life, there including emotions, their suffering and more. Hm.
That's interesting. Not everyone can do that... you must be intuitive/empathic? It helps in life, I think, to be able to acknowledge various perspectives. It broadens the field from which to craft/chart our own experience while allowing others to craft/chart theirs.
Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:50 amextremely rare I see someone say to someone else, well, I tried X, did it/went to it for 3 months and I find that....
I'm guessing that's the 'argument effect'. People often seem to hold positions in arguments to win rather than to learn anything new.
LOL The WHOLE reason WHY I continually POINT OUT and SAY that HOLDING A POSITION is Wrong and that DEBATING, which you have ALL been TAUGHT TO DO, through a VERY MISGUIDED so-called 'education system', is just AS Wrong IS BECAUSE doing so STOPS one from being ABLE to continually LEARN MORE and ANEW.

Also, 'you' say the above "lacewing" like somehow 'you' do NOT do the EXACT SAME thing/s.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm It's like some kind of warfare strategy to 'hold position' in the midst of engagement. :)
Which 'you', "yourself, lacewing", DO, VERY OFTEN.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm If they later go away and quietly think about things, they still might never be able to acknowledge to being 'wrong' about anything... because being wrong about one thing might mean being wrong about a lot of things, upon which their whole idea of reality is built.
EXACTLY "lacewing", and which is a VERY BIG REASON WHY 'you', "yourself", do NOT THINK ABOUT what gets TOLD TO 'you'. INSTEAD, you HOLD, STEADFASTLY, ONTO YOUR OWN POSITIONS. Which is just what I have been POINTING OUT and SHOWING here.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm For me, it's a relief not to care or worry about that much anymore... and I'm having more fun on the stage of life, as a result.
LOL Here is ANOTHER PRIME example of DENIAL in its most EXTREME FORM.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm I accept that anything is possible and I continually experience and explore the realm of possibility that fits with the kind of experiences and manifestations I want.
LOL The words, 'I want', just DESTROYED the rest of YOUR CLAIM here.

Also, are you OPEN to the Fact that there could be One Truth? From what you have SAID, CLAIMED, and INSISTED, previously, based on your OWN strongly HELD ONTO POSITION, then you do NOT accept that ANY thing is possible, AT ALL.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm No specific destination... just creating art and finding new tools/materials to work with for each situation.

This might sound boastful somehow in written communication online,
LOL
LOL
LOL

How, EXACTLY, would just expressing that one is OPEN comes across as being so-called 'boastful'?

Absolutely EVERY one of 'you', human beings, WAS completely and utterly ABSOLUTELY OPEN, previously. LOL 'you' are ALL born this way, NATURALLY. So, how, EXACTLY, could expressing that you just being your VERY NATURAL INSTINCTIVE 'self' be 'boasting' or being 'boastful'?
Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm but people who experience me talking about it in person, see and feel that I'm being genuine and it's easy to connect with just about anyone. I have no specific agenda.
EXCEPT to EXPRESS YOUR BELIEF that, 'There is NO one truth', that, 'God does NOT exist', and that, to 'try to' RIDICULE and HUMILIATE ANY one who BELIEVES otherwise.

"lacewing", 'you' are NOT as FREE and as OPEN as 'you' BELIEVE 'you' are, as 'you' are SHACKLED to your currently HELD ONTO POSITIONS, which were FORMED because of your very OWN past experiences.

As I have been continually POINTING OUT and SHOWING here ALL of 'you', adult human beings, ARE. Thanks to 'you', "lacewing".
Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm I see how we humans are affected and controlled by imagined limitations.
YET 'you', CLEARLY, STILL HOLD ONTO and MAINTAIN 'your' OWN 'imagined limitations'.
Lacewing wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:15 pm I share openly in hopes of demonstrating a larger realm of possibility and the ability to move more freely within it. I hope that other people might discover larger realms for themselves, as well.
LOL "lacewing" 'you' live in one of the SMALLEST, and IMAGINED, 'realms' POSSIBLE. As I just POINTED OUT and SHOWED above here.
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