Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Walker
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by Walker »

bahman wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:22 pm Why did he say so?
I suppose the last words are the last teaching, and the meaning of that teaching is, the spirit continues after the body is finished. This is consistent with the fact that all we can ever know from experience is life, irregardless of whether God, the body, or a slaver is entrusted with the spirit.

Jesus was a man, and a man is a spirit in a particular body, only. Is God in a particular body, only? If not, then Jesus and God were not the same.
Walker
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by Walker »

Thus bahman, we reach the crux of your question.

To be one does not mean that God and Jesus are the same entity. God and Jesus are part of a trinity. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost that is referenced in the verse from Luke, in the last words of Jesus who gave up the ghost by commending his spirit to The Father, the spirit that was commended by the Father to The Son who gave it up.

The one that is comprised of Jesus and God and The Holy Spirit makes each of the elements the same and indivisible ... I suppose.
Dubious
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by Dubious »

It depends on the motives of the gospels writers (Mark in this case) and not on anything Jesus may have said or whether he said anything. What the question really asks is what was the meaning Mark tried to convey in having Jesus conclude with these words.
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bahman
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by bahman »

Walker wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:58 pm Thus bahman, we reach the crux of your question.

To be one does not mean that God and Jesus are the same entity. God and Jesus are part of a trinity. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost that is referenced in the verse from Luke, in the last words of Jesus who gave up the ghost by commending his spirit to The Father, the spirit that was commended by the Father to The Son who gave it up.

The one that is comprised of Jesus and God and The Holy Spirit makes each of the elements the same and indivisible ... I suppose.
I didn't mean that God and Jesus are the same entity. I was wondering why God was absent from Him if Jesus is part of the Trinity.
Walker
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by Walker »

bahman wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:18 pm I didn't mean that God and Jesus are the same entity.
They are the same entity, as I explained. The single entity is the reality, the fragmenting is a mind thing to explain how things work.

In other words, you may have to redefine Jesus the man, and perhaps human beings, outside of what you figure a man to be.
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Sculptor
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

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bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:03 pm How could Jesus be abandoned if God and Jesus are one?
He didn't say that.
Someone said he said that. But he could not have said that because if Jesus was real then he would have spoken Aramaic, not English.
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bahman
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by bahman »

Walker wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:32 am
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:18 pm I didn't mean that God and Jesus are the same entity.
They are the same entity, as I explained. The single entity is the reality, the fragmenting is a mind thing to explain how things work.

In other words, you may have to redefine Jesus the man, and perhaps human beings, outside of what you figure a man to be.
How do you define Jesus and human beings?
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bahman
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:34 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:03 pm How could Jesus be abandoned if God and Jesus are one?
He didn't say that.
Someone said he said that. But he could not have said that because if Jesus was real then he would have spoken Aramaic, not English.
He apparently said it in Aramaic.
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Sculptor
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:23 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:34 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:03 pm How could Jesus be abandoned if God and Jesus are one?
He didn't say that.
Someone said he said that. But he could not have said that because if Jesus was real then he would have spoken Aramaic, not English.
He apparently said it in Aramaic.
Did he? Where was that quoted then? And when? - How long after the event? ANd who was actually listening to be able to report the comment....

Before you try to answer I'll tell you.. the quote is in Greek, not Aramaic. It was a very long time after the event. At least 100 years. And oddly no one was there to hear the comment capable of reporting the words. So nah!

No one said that in Aramaic or any other language
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Sculptor
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:22 pm
Walker wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:32 am
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:18 pm I didn't mean that God and Jesus are the same entity.
They are the same entity, as I explained. The single entity is the reality, the fragmenting is a mind thing to explain how things work.

In other words, you may have to redefine Jesus the man, and perhaps human beings, outside of what you figure a man to be.
How do you define Jesus and human beings?
That would be your job. It's your thread.
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bahman
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:53 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:23 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:34 am

He didn't say that.
Someone said he said that. But he could not have said that because if Jesus was real then he would have spoken Aramaic, not English.
He apparently said it in Aramaic.
Did he? Where was that quoted then? And when? - How long after the event? ANd who was actually listening to be able to report the comment....

Before you try to answer I'll tell you.. the quote is in Greek, not Aramaic. It was a very long time after the event. At least 100 years. And oddly no one was there to hear the comment capable of reporting the words. So nah!

No one said that in Aramaic or any other language
These are good questions and answers! I am however not Christian so I am not obliged to defend the scripture.
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bahman
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:53 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:22 pm
Walker wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:32 am
They are the same entity, as I explained. The single entity is the reality, the fragmenting is a mind thing to explain how things work.

In other words, you may have to redefine Jesus the man, and perhaps human beings, outside of what you figure a man to be.
How do you define Jesus and human beings?
That would be your job. It's your thread.
Well, Jesus was a human being like one of us on one hand and a member of the Trinity on another hand. We know what human is. A member of the Trinity I don't know what that could possibly mean.
Walker
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by Walker »

bahman wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:22 pm How do you define Jesus and human beings?
Wave and particle, father and son.

Although language, thought, and perception are influenced by human bifurcation tendencies of either/or that shape conceptualizing and place "choice" at the peak of definitive human characteristics, reality is not subject to the failures of comprehension caused by the limitations of taxonomy.

Scientists understand that all things are compounded, which includes a trinity thing, but the elements of a thing are not the thing.
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bahman
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by bahman »

Walker wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:14 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:22 pm How do you define Jesus and human beings?
Wave and particle, father and son.

Although language, thought, and perception are influenced by human bifurcation tendencies of either/or that shape conceptualizing and place "choice" at the peak of definitive human characteristics, reality is not subject to the failures of comprehension caused by the limitations of taxonomy.

Scientists understand that all things are compounded, which includes a trinity thing, but the elements of a thing are not the thing.
I don't believe in wave-particle duality. To me, the reality is made of minds and Qualia. But putting these things aside, if God and Son are one thing then why Jesus felt abandoned?
Walker
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Re: Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"?

Post by Walker »

bahman wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:30 pm
Walker wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:14 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:22 pm How do you define Jesus and human beings?
Wave and particle, father and son.

Although language, thought, and perception are influenced by human bifurcation tendencies of either/or that shape conceptualizing and place "choice" at the peak of definitive human characteristics, reality is not subject to the failures of comprehension caused by the limitations of taxonomy.

Scientists understand that all things are compounded, which includes a trinity thing, but the elements of a thing are not the thing.
I don't believe in wave-particle duality. To me, the reality is made of minds and Qualia. But putting these things aside, if God and Son are one thing then why Jesus felt abandoned?
It's not about your belief.

Like I said, Jesus was a man, so perhaps adjust your dualistic notions of either/or in defining what a man is.

There's a saying ... all men have a breaking point. Do you have a notion that some men don't have a breaking point? Perhaps such folks exist only in your fantasy.

Winston Smith forsook his notions of love when thinking of rats chewing on his face.
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