How could Satan possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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seeds
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Re: How Satan could possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by seeds »

bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:41 am
seeds wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:28 pm ...to answer the question, he couldn't, because there is no Satan (except as a mythological character).
...I think He is real. I talk with Him and His Gang all the time.
Yes, it's obvious that you do, because "Him and HIs Gang" are no doubt the ones who have misguided you into believing that there is no such thing as strong emergence, or that qualia is a substance, or that a human body is made up of many minds, etc., etc..

Didn't your mother ever warn you that talking with Satan or any of his minions* could lead you astray? :twisted:

*(Some of Satan's major and minor minions are Donald Trump**, Richard Dawkins, Sean Carroll, Max Tegmark, Immanuel Can, Veritas Aequitas, and Age, just to name a few :D)

**(Donald Trump might actually be the incarnation of Satan himself)

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ThinkOfOne
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Re: How could Satan possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by ThinkOfOne »

bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:13 pm
ThinkOfOne wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:11 am
bahman wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:44 pm Well, to me God who is the creator of everything including Satan has power over them. But apparently, Satan could tempt Jesus while He was in the wilderness so it seems that Satan has power over Jesus. My question is: How Satan could possibly tempt Jesus if Jesus is God?
Your OP is problematic.

Looking at Matthew 4, Luke 4 and Mark 1, it's more like Satan attempted to tempt Jesus, but Jesus rejected Satan's attempts. Satan had no power over Jesus.
Satan is an intelligent Creature. He does not do vain. Satan of course didn't know if His temptation is going to work but He tried it. Apparently, Jesus was strong enough to reject the temptation. But who knows, Jesus could also fail if the temptation is strong enough.
You asserted that Satan has power over Jesus and that the story of Jesus in the wilderness is evidence of this. As I pointed out and you seem to admit, your assertion was false.

Now you're spewing nonsense in a desperate attempt to defend your false assertion. For example: " Satan is an intelligent Creature. He does not do vain." You say this even though it seems that you understand that Satan did try in vain to tempt Jesus in the wilderness.

The rest of your post is as poorly thought out. Why don't you take a little time and respond to my previous post in a logical and reasonable manner?
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Lacewing
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Re: How Satan could possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:37 pm *(Some of Satan's major and minor minions are Donald Trump**...

**(Donald Trump might actually be the incarnation of Satan himself)

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:lol:

I've wondered!

I always thought Satan would be smarter than Trump is, though. Even putting on an act of being that stupid would not be a smart way to go about it. I think Trump is being genuine for himself... which is completely intertwined with falseness and delusion. That's how he rolls. And lots of people love it for some reason. Maybe such people think embracing delusion is a perfect way to rebel from what they are imagining.
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bahman
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Re: How could Satan possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:59 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:35 pm I see what you mean and that is an interesting interpretation. But apparently, Jesus was not a simple man. He has power over nature, He could cure the blind, etc. Otherwise, how could a simple man receive such attention as He received?
I didn't mean, and I can see how it implied that, that he was like everyone else. But he had to slide out of his mother, learn things, work. He could feel pain and it seems fear and doubt (Thou hast forwaken me) potential temptation and human emotions - though Yahweh had those last also.
Are you sure that Yahweh also has potential temptation and human emotions?
Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:59 pm
But what if Jesus failed the temptation? I think anybody fails if the temptation is strong enough and the person is weak enough.
Well, that's an interesting idea. Would that have tainted God as a whole, creation, etc.? I think the idea is that despite being human he managed. And that includes his other troubles also. Sort of role modeling for us. On the other hand, if I knew I was a part or THE son, of God, well I think I could manage to do all sorts of things.
Ok.
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bahman
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Re: How Satan could possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by bahman »

seeds wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:37 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:41 am
seeds wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:28 pm ...to answer the question, he couldn't, because there is no Satan (except as a mythological character).
...I think He is real. I talk with Him and His Gang all the time.
Yes, it's obvious that you do, because "Him and HIs Gang" are no doubt the ones who have misguided you into believing that there is no such thing as strong emergence, or that qualia is a substance, or that a human body is made up of many minds, etc., etc..

Didn't your mother ever warn you that talking with Satan or any of his minions* could lead you astray? :twisted:

*(Some of Satan's major and minor minions are Donald Trump**, Richard Dawkins, Sean Carroll, Max Tegmark, Immanuel Can, Veritas Aequitas, and Age, just to name a few :D)

**(Donald Trump might actually be the incarnation of Satan himself)

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So you think that is God who fooling us!?
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bahman
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Re: How could Satan possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by bahman »

ThinkOfOne wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:33 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:13 pm
ThinkOfOne wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:11 am

Your OP is problematic.

Looking at Matthew 4, Luke 4 and Mark 1, it's more like Satan attempted to tempt Jesus, but Jesus rejected Satan's attempts. Satan had no power over Jesus.
Satan is an intelligent Creature. He does not do vain. Satan of course didn't know if His temptation is going to work but He tried it. Apparently, Jesus was strong enough to reject the temptation. But who knows, Jesus could also fail if the temptation is strong enough.
You asserted that Satan has power over Jesus and that the story of Jesus in the wilderness is evidence of this. As I pointed out and you seem to admit, your assertion was false.
I said that Statan tempted Him. I have never said that Satan succeeded. By power, I mean that Satan has the power to put things inside our minds.
ThinkOfOne wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:11 am Now you're spewing nonsense in a desperate attempt to defend your false assertion. For example: " Satan is an intelligent Creature. He does not do vain." You say this even though it seems that you understand that Satan did try in vain to tempt Jesus in the wilderness.
It is not nonsense. Is Jesus God or a Man? If God then Satan did vain. If a Man then it was possible that Jesus fails.
ThinkOfOne wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:11 am The rest of your post is as poorly thought out. Why don't you take a little time and respond to my previous post in a logical and reasonable manner?
No, it is not. If God and Jesus are one then why Jesus felt alone on the cross saying that "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?".
seeds
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Re: How Satan could possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by seeds »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:16 pm
seeds wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:37 pm *(Some of Satan's major and minor minions are Donald Trump**...

**(Donald Trump might actually be the incarnation of Satan himself)

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:lol:

I've wondered!

I always thought Satan would be smarter than Trump is, though. Even putting on an act of being that stupid would not be a smart way to go about it.
Ah, but that's the cleverness of it all.

Satan knows precisely how to act vicariously through Trump to achieve his intended goals of fooling the gullible masses into traveling down a road that leads to self-destruction.

Besides, as I have mentioned before, who, other than Donald Trump, could be a better representative of America's greed and hedonistic ethos?

However (and setting aside all of this Satan nonsense), I think it is karma itself that is using Trump to help bring down America for all of the imperialistic treachery it has perpetrated across the planet over the last eight or so decades.

If karma is indeed a real phenomenon, then surely it is being influenced by a need for some posthumous justice for all of the millions of men, women, and children that America has murdered over time (either directly or indirectly) via its unnecessary wars and self-serving foreign policies.
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seeds
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Re: How Satan could possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by seeds »

bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:38 pm So you think that is God who fooling us!?
Yes, bahman, without a doubt, God is definitely fooling us (some more than others).

However, not with malicious intent, but for our own good.
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Lacewing
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Re: How Satan could possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:28 pm
Lacewing wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:16 pm I always thought Satan would be smarter than Trump is, though. Even putting on an act of being that stupid would not be a smart way to go about it.
Ah, but that's the cleverness of it all.

Satan knows precisely how to act vicariously through Trump to achieve his intended goals of fooling the gullible masses into traveling down a road that leads to self-destruction.
You could be right. Although, I've never been sure that Satan would be very smart either. Seems like he ended up with a bum gig.
seeds wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:28 pmBesides, as I have mentioned before, who, other than Donald Trump, could be a better representative of America's greed and hedonistic ethos?
Very true! And a perfect example of how delusion eats one's brain.
seeds wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:28 pmHowever (and setting aside all of this Satan nonsense), I think it is karma itself that is using Trump to help bring down America for all of the imperialistic treachery it has perpetrated across the planet over the last eight or so decades.
I've often thought of the role he plays of destruction and chaos in this grand human drama. I wish there were a true hero to help inspire a more enlightened time for humankind. Else, our civilization may cease as others have before us. It's disappointing to think that we could be that stupid.
Iwannaplato
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Re: How could Satan possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:37 pm Are you sure that Yahweh also has potential temptation and human emotions?
Ambiguous grammar on my part. I meant the emotions, not the temptation. And I meant that Yahweh is presented as having emotions. I am not making claims about Yahweh.
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bahman
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Re: How Satan could possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by bahman »

seeds wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:11 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:38 pm So you think that is God who fooling us!?
Yes, bahman, without a doubt, God is definitely fooling us (some more than others).

However, not with malicious intent, but for our own good.
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Prove it that that is God who is fooling us.
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bahman
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Re: How could Satan possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:02 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:37 pm Are you sure that Yahweh also has potential temptation and human emotions?
Ambiguous grammar on my part. I meant the emotions, not the temptation. And I meant that Yahweh is presented as having emotions. I am not making claims about Yahweh.
Could you please site some verses from OT?
Iwannaplato
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Re: How could Satan possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:09 am Could you please site some verses from OT?
It's not so easy to search under 'emotions' so I went with anger and these arose....Yahweh is the one being attributed with emotions.
Deuteronomy 9:8
Verse Concepts
Even at Horeb you provoked the Lord to wrath, and the Lord was so angry with you that He would have destroyed you.

Exodus 15:7
Verse Concepts
“And in the greatness of Your excellence You overthrow those who rise up against You;
You send forth Your burning anger, and it consumes them as chaff.

Exodus 32:10-11
Now then let Me alone, that My anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them; and I will make of you a great nation.” Then Moses entreated the Lord his God, and said, “O Lord, why does Your anger burn against Your people whom You have brought out from the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?

Numbers 11:1-2
Now the people became like those who complain of adversity in the hearing of the Lord; and when the Lord heard it, His anger was kindled, and the fire of the Lord burned among them and consumed some of the outskirts of the camp. The people therefore cried out to Moses, and Moses prayed to the Lord and the fire died out.

Job 4:9
Verse Concepts
“By the breath of God they perish,
And by the blast of His anger they come to an end.

Isaiah 13:5
Verse Concepts
They are coming from a far country,
From the farthest horizons,
The Lord and His instruments of indignation,
To destroy the whole land.

Jeremiah 32:29
Verse Concepts
The Chaldeans who are fighting against this city will enter and set this city on fire and burn it, with the houses where people have offered incense to Baal on their roofs and poured out drink offerings to other gods to provoke Me to anger.

Lamentations 2:2
Verse Concepts
The Lord has swallowed up; He has not spared
All the habitations of Jacob.
In His wrath He has thrown down
The strongholds of the daughter of Judah;
He has brought them down to the ground;
He has profaned the kingdom and its princes.

Numbers 32:13
Verse Concepts
So the Lord’s anger burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the Lord was destroyed.

2 Kings 13:3
Verse Concepts
So the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and He gave them continually into the hand of Hazael king of Aram, and into the hand of Ben-hadad the son of Hazael.

Isaiah 51:20
Verse Concepts
Your sons have fainted,
They lie helpless at the head of every street,
Like an antelope in a net,
Full of the wrath of the Lord,
The rebuke of your God.

Ezekiel 7:8
Verse Concepts
Now I will shortly pour out My wrath on you and spend My anger against you; judge you according to your ways and bring on you all your abominations.

Habakkuk 3:12
Verse Concepts
In indignation You marched through the earth;
In anger You trampled the nations.

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/ ... nsequences
seeds
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Re: How Satan could possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by seeds »

bahman wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:08 am
seeds wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:11 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:38 pm So you think that is God who fooling us!?
Yes, bahman, without a doubt, God is definitely fooling us (some more than others).

However, not with malicious intent, but for our own good.
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Prove it that that is God who is fooling us.
I've already made innumerable posts where I have argued that any irrefutable proof of God's existence could be detrimental to humans, therefore, we cannot be allowed to have such proof.

Furthermore, bahman, if you want to play that game, then how about you prove that it's not God who is fooling us.

And while you're at it, prove the following:
  • 1. Prove that Jesus was (or wasn't) God incarnate.
    2. Prove that Satan truly exists.
    3. Prove that Satan tried to tempt Jesus.
    4. Prove that Satan took the form of a snake in a place called the Garden of Eden and talked Eve and Adam into eating a "forbidden fruit."
    5. Prove your earlier claim that you personally talk to "Him (Satan) and His Gang all the time."
So, there's the deal, bahman, if you can prove all of the above, then I will make the effort to prove that it is God who is fooling us.
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seeds
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Re: How could Satan possibly tempt Jesus if He is God?

Post by seeds »

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