bahman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:23 pm
seeds wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:08 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:06 pm
I have an argument against God.
Well, you're certainly not unique in that regard. Nevertheless, let's hear your argument against God.
Any action has a before and after since any act is causing a change. This means that you need time for any action including the act of creation. The act of creation out of noting includes the creation of time as well. This means that you need time for the creation of time. This leads to a regress. Regress is not logically possible. Therefore, the act of creation out of nothing is impossible. Therefore there is no God.
Yet, here we are, tangible and existent phenomena suspended in a spatial arena that we call a universe. And every possible approach we have at trying to discern why anything whatsoever exists (be it mind or matter), leads to infinite regress.
In other words, there's just no escaping the infinitely regressing mystery of how and why there is something rather than absolute nothingness.
And the point is that how in the world does the fact that you are bedazzled by one of the greatest mysteries in all of reality, summarily rule out the possibility that the obvious order of this universe may have an intelligent designer?
In fact, the order screams for some sort of intelligence behind it all. Otherwise, you are left with the
utterly ridiculous notion that the unfathomable order of the universe is a product of chance. Which, in itself, would be no less affected by your issues with infinite regress and creation out of nothing of which you use to dismiss the existence of God.
bahman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:23 pm
seeds wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:08 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:06 pm
The universe is infinite though (I have an argument for this too).
The implications of the Big Bang Theory would suggest that it (the universe we inhabit) is not infinite. Nevertheless, let's hear your argument for the universe being infinite.
Let's assume the contrary, the universe is finite, let's call this universe U1. This means that the universe is bounded by something, let's call this U2. U2 is either finite or infinite. If it is infinite then U1+U2 is infinite, we call this the universe and we reach the conclusion. If it is finite then U2 is bounded by something, let's call this U3. U3 is either finite or infinite. If it is infinite then U1+U2+U3 is infinite, we call this the universe and we reach the conclusion. Etc. Therefore, the universe is infinite.
No, bahman, according to the widely accepted Big Bang Theory, approximately 13.8 billion years ago, the totality of the phenomenon that we call our "universe" was once contained in an area smaller than the dot between these two brackets
[ . ].
Then something caused that infinitesimal (extremely "bounded") dot to begin expanding into a bubble that is now estimated to be approximately 93 billion light years in diameter.
Now, logically, the outer (bounding) film of this ever-expanding bubble would be a light barrier of which nothing of any mass on the inside of the bubble could ever move beyond.
Therefore, what lies beyond the bounding light barrier of our particular universe is either going to be absolute and utter nothingness,...
(represented by the blackened area of the illustration, which could indeed be infinite)
...or perhaps other universes...
And the point is that whatever lies on the other side of the film of the bubble depicted in this illustration...
...may indeed be infinite in nature, but it will not be a part of
our universe, at least not according to the implications of the Big Bang Theory.
bahman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:06 pm
If we think of Satan as the most Evil being then He must exist following my first comment.
seeds wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:08 pm
"...He must exist..." is simply another one of your non sequiturs. How about we think of Satan as being mythological nonsense and leave it at that?
bahman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:23 pm
Well, I think that the existence of Satan is well-established by now, since the universe is infinite, there exists anything that you can possibly imagine, including Satan.
Again, bahman, the limited and entangled spacetime physics of this particular closed "bubble" of reality that we call our universe, is not infinite. Indeed, as mentioned earlier, our universe is but a mere 93 billion light years in diameter, which is not even a grain of sand compared to actual infinity.
Therefore, your theory of infinite possibilities is based on a false premise.
seeds wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:08 pm
3. Prove that Satan tried to tempt Jesus.
bahman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:06 pm
I don't have to. This is what is written in the scripture...
seeds wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:08 pm
You're missing the point of the exercise. You asked me to "prove" something about God, and I simply returned the favor by asking you to "prove" something about Satan. In which case, something written in "the scripture" is not "proof" of anything.
bahman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:23 pm
I already proved the existence of a being who is the evilest.
Sorry, bahman, but the only thing you have proven is that you are prone to making wild assertions about the existence of
"evil beings" based on your misapprehension of what our particular (not so infinite) universe consists of.
_______