I don't see the point in addressing primary sources with secondary literature. If Aquinas outright says that X is Y then the argument from authority where the BBC claims the opposite doesn't have any force. Better to read what Aquinas says then to read what the BBC says Aquinas says.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:23 amWhat about the link I gave above re BBC, it is wrong?Leontiskos wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 6:18 pmBecause as my post showed, Aquinas did not argue from reason that the universe has no beginning in time. In fact he held that all such arguments fail.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 9:44 am
VA: Aquinas do not accept that God created the Universe in time in 6-7 days but rather he argued from reason that the Universe has no beginning-in-Time nor end which contradict Genesis' creation of the Universe.
Why incorrect?
...But I will answer you since I am new here. As I look through the BBC article, the only time Thomas Aquinas is ever referenced is the final page of the article, page 6, where he is quoted as saying, "Whatever man desires, he desires it under the aspect of good." Thomas' thought on creation is never appealed to in the article.
Nope. You are conflating two different arguments. The first argument is on the part of the effect, "...[demonstration] on the part of the world itself." Thomas' point there is that, given what we know about the world, we are not rationally justified in concluding that the world did not always exist. The second argument is on the part of the efficient cause which is responsible for the effect, namely God. Since God need not will that the world did not always exist, therefore it is not necessary, on the part of the world's cause, that it did not always exist. Thomas is saying, "The world gives us no reason to believe that it did not always exist; and the world's cause, God, also gives us no reason to believe that the world did not always exist. Therefore we have no natural reason to believe that the world did not always exist." The only reason is supernatural (i.e. faith via revelation).Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:23 amNote the full quote:Note this;I answer that, By faith alone do we hold, and by no demonstration can it be proved, that the world did not always exist, as was said above of the mystery of the Trinity (I:32:1.
The reason of this is that the newness of the world cannot be demonstrated on the part of the world itself.
For the principle of demonstration is the essence of a thing.
Now everything according to its species is abstracted from "here" and "now"; whence it is said that universals are everywhere and always.
Hence it cannot be demonstrated that man, or heaven, or a stone were not always. Likewise neither can it be demonstrated on the part of the efficient cause, which acts by will.
For the will of God cannot be investigated by reason, except as regards those things which God must will of necessity; and what He wills about creatures is not among these, as was said above (I:19:3).
But the divine will can be manifested by revelation, on which faith rests.
Hence that the world began to exist is an object of faith, but not of demonstration or science.
And it is useful to consider this, lest anyone, presuming to demonstrate what is of faith, should bring forward reasons that are not cogent, so as to give occasion to unbelievers to laugh, thinking that on such grounds we believe things that are of faith.
For the will of God cannot be investigated by reason, except as regards those things which God must will of necessity; and what He wills about creatures is not among these, as was said above (I:19:3).
Here Aquinas is merely referring to the Will of God in relation to why God cause the World to appear in the first place.
I have not said anything about the process of creation in this thread.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:23 amAquinas is not referring to the processes of how the world emerge since God' will it in 6 days and rest on the seven as literally stated in Genesis.
Can you confirm, Aquinas agreed with the literal interpretation of Genesis of how the World first emerged, i.e. God created the World in 6 days and rest on the 7th?