Reincarnation

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:39 pm

It is WHEN 'you' REPLY and SAY and CLAIM that I have said SOME 'thing' WHEN 'you' ACTUALLY CHANGE MY WORDS AROUND.


Don't you mean how I interpret your words and then write down the interpretation in my own words.

That's hardly me changing yours words around that only you have put into place.

Interpretation is like the game of chinese whispers, eventually the original message turns out to be something completely different than what was originally said, it's no big deal....humans are allowed to error and make mistakes, they are allowed to be human, permission is should never be denied.

We all know what you know Age, because if you know then anyone of us can have that knowing and it'll have come from the exact same place as where you get yours from Age...we all know that.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:19 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:49 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:46 pm
'you' are just CONFUSING "your" OWN 'self' here "dontaskme".
Not really, I am not the one who is confused, that is your projection.
So, 'you' KNOW EVERY thing here, and are NOT confused about ANY thing AT ALL here. Is this what 'you' are SAYING and MEANING here?
You were the one who implied I was confusing myself, not me.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:32 pm
WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY leaves 'you' on YOUR OWN here.

Well I am always on my own as far as I know Age.

There is no other one being me, that's for sure.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:27 pm
Life, when there was and is NO NEED for a "cleaner" was and IS FAR MORE TOLERABLE.

I could interpret that as meaning....life before humans made a mess would be more tolerable. And since I have never once seen a furry animal clear away a bombed building that has been reduced to dust and rubble. It seems you are saying that without humans to make a mess life would be far more tolerable, but that is only my interpretation of what you have stated above....I could be wrong, but I'm not a mind reader Age.

It's almost as if you are now endorsing the idea of Anti-natalism. And yet the other day you were saying the idea that we stopped breeding was a stupid idea.

I don't know Age, what on earth do you mean by anything you say in the days when this is being written?

No one has ever been alive before.

Everyone is just trying to figure everything out in their own way, and they are more than entitled to do so in their own way, because there is no one else being that one who has never been born before, so this one who has never been born before is not expected to know anything really, except what is directly experienced for the first time and then memorized for future reference.
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Re: Reincarnation

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Rein-carnation: to limit or control (someone or something)

In-carnation: a person who embodies in the flesh a deity, spirit.

Reincarnation: to limit or control a person who embodies in the flesh a deity, spirit.

Carnation: The carnation means fascination, distinction, and love. According to a Christian legend, carnations grew from the Virgin Mary's tears as she watched Jesus carry the cross. This is how they became associated with motherly love.

It also means milk, the naturally flowing juice of life that no woman ever makes happen.


:|
seeds
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by seeds »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:05 am
seeds wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:04 pm Clearly, we are both doing a lot of speculating here.
Ok, great. You are speculating and I am speculating. If the post I responded to was simply meant as speculation, great.

I encounter people on the internet who think they can rule things out with arguments similar to the one you made. Yours was present in a questioning form and you did not make any statements like...Thus we can rule out reincarnation. But I have seen lines of argument start that way or be intended as a kind of argument from incredulity. I think, opening the issue up more broadly, that people overestimate deduction. And not just around supernatural type issues. So, I tossed out some possibilities, as you say speculating. Deduction is obviously a very effective tool, but when we have very little information about something, it can be very misleading.
My main approach in evaluating whether or not some metaphysical or spiritual (or religion-based) assertion can be ruled out is by visualizing how it holds up when projected into eternity - trillions of years into the infinite future.

As I have written in a book I self-published back in 2008:
"Eternity is the ultimate frame of reference by which to measure the validity of any concept -- religious or otherwise -- that tries to describe the purpose and form we will acquire after death. If any alleged truth concerning our ultimate destiny appears to be flimsy, illogical, or short lived when evaluated in the context of eternity, then it should be abandoned."
And the point is that "reincarnation" is a flimsy (short-lived) concept that seems to fizzle-out when projected into eternity, for it doesn't provide us with the slightest clue as to what the "end goal" might be.

Indeed, most of the standard presentations of reincarnation leaves one with the impression that the "end goal" of reincarnation is to be snuffed out of existence forever.

Either that, or reach the goal of being able to sit in a perpetual lotus position with no discernible purpose other than forever contemplating one's navel,...

Image

...neither of which sounds very logical or appealing, especially the "snuffing-out" one.

Now, as per your concerns, it would be presumptuous and foolish of me to completely rule out the possibility that reincarnation might be some sort of short-term feature of our existence.

However, as I pointed out earlier, even if we had to reincarnate a million times over a billion year period in order to reach some state where we no longer needed to reincarnate anymore,...then what?

Again, a billion years isn't even a grain of sand to eternity, and no matter what our mental, spiritual (general ontological) status may be once "moksha" has been achieved, eternity would still be looming before us in a vision of endlessness that defies our comprehension.

The ultimate point is that if our minds (souls) are truly meant to last forever, then in order to ward-off eternal (insanity inducing) boredom and uselessness, we simply must have something logical to do to occupy the passing of infinite time.

Do you have any (reasonable) guesses as to what that might be?

I do...

...http://www.theultimateseeds.com/
_______
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:57 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:39 pm

It is WHEN 'you' REPLY and SAY and CLAIM that I have said SOME 'thing' WHEN 'you' ACTUALLY CHANGE MY WORDS AROUND.


Don't you mean how I interpret your words and then write down the interpretation in my own words.

But what I MEAN is IN what I ACTUALLY SAID, and thus ACTUALLY WROTE.

'you' are only, ONCE AGAIN, here interpreting MY words, and then writing down your OWN interpretation, in your OWN words. Which can DRASTICALLY CHANGE the MEANING of what I ACTUALLY SAID, and MEANT.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:57 pm That's hardly me changing yours words around that only you have put into place.
But I NEVER said I MEAN YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION here.

ONCE AGAIN, you make your OWN interpretation, write down your OWN interpretation, make a STATEMENT, but PRETEND it is a question posed for CLARIFICATION, ASSUME that YOUR OWN answer to that so-called "question is what I WOULD SAY and AGREE with, and then just CARRY ON.

But, as can be CLEARLY SEEN here ONCE AGAIN, 'you' are just 'carrying on' OFF TRACK, based SOLELY NOTHING MORE than your OWN interpretations, assumptions, and beliefs, of which they are usually ALWAYS absolutely Wrong in regards to ME and what I say and write here.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:57 pm Interpretation is like the game of chinese whispers, eventually the original message turns out to be something completely different than what was originally said,
LOL The original message does NOT turn out to be some thing completely DIFFERENT. However, how 'you' have interpreted the original message and have CHANGED 'it', IS some thing ABSOLUTELY and COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. As can be CLEARLY SEEN and PROVED True above here.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:57 pm it's no big deal....humans are allowed to error and make mistakes, they are allowed to be human, permission is should never be denied.
So, are you here saying and suggesting that 'I' could INTERPRET 'your' words, in absolutely ANY way I like, and then write 'them' in my OWN words, and then SAY and CLAIM that that WAS WHAT YOU SAID, while ALSO CLAIMING that 'you' are DENYING that YOU SAID WHAT YOU SAID, and that this would be NO BIG DEAL, AT ALL, to 'you'?
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:57 pm We all know what you know Age,
And what is 'that', EXACTLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:57 pm because if you know then anyone of us can have that knowing and it'll have come from the exact same place as where you get yours from Age...we all know that.
But do 'you' ALL KNOW 'that' RIGHT NOW.

Also, 'can have that knowledge' is NOT the SAME as 'having that knowledge'. Where 'you' AWARE of 'that'?
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:58 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:19 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:49 pm

Not really, I am not the one who is confused, that is your projection.
So, 'you' KNOW EVERY thing here, and are NOT confused about ANY thing AT ALL here. Is this what 'you' are SAYING and MEANING here?
You were the one who implied I was confusing myself, not me.
WHY do 'you' 'try to' DETRACT and DEFLECT SO MUCH?

LOOK, I asked 'you' a question, for CLARIFICATION.

What I 'implied' or 'said' earlier on does NOT matter in this case.

If 'you', "dontaskme", want to say and claim that 'you' are NOT confused about ANY thing, then, literally, so be 'it'.

SHOW 'us' that 'you' are NOT confused.
Age
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:01 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:32 pm
WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY leaves 'you' on YOUR OWN here.

Well I am always on my own as far as I know Age.

There is no other one being me, that's for sure.
WHY do 'you' CONFLATE SO OFTEN here, in this thread, and in this forum?

Absolutely NO one even IMPLIED that ANY one is being 'you'. So, WHY bring this up when absolutely NO one 'else' has?

Also, what 'you' are implying or suggesting here was NOT what I was talking about and referring to anyway, ONCE AGAIN.
Age
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:09 pm
Age wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:27 pm
Life, when there was and is NO NEED for a "cleaner" was and IS FAR MORE TOLERABLE.

I could interpret that as meaning....life before humans made a mess would be more tolerable.
'you' could interpret 'this', but if 'you' did, then 'you' would be Wrong, ONCE AGAIN, and way OFF TRACK, ONCE MORE.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:09 pm And since I have never once seen a furry animal clear away a bombed building that has been reduced to dust and rubble. It seems you are saying that without humans to make a mess life would be far more tolerable, but that is only my interpretation of what you have stated above....
And, just so 'you' become LESS CONFUSED, and MORE CLEAR, that INTERPRETATION of YOURS is completely and utterly Wrong, ONCE MORE, and ONCE AGAIN.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:09 pm I could be wrong, but I'm not a mind reader Age.
AND, 'you' are NOT one who seeks out CLARIFICATION, BEFORE 'you' JUMP to YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS, and CONCLUSIONS, EITHER.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:09 pm It's almost as if you are now endorsing the idea of Anti-natalism. And yet the other day you were saying the idea that we stopped breeding was a stupid idea.
LOL But considering I would NEVER endorse such a STUPID idea, ALL of this is moot.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:09 pm I don't know Age, what on earth do you mean by anything you say in the days when this is being written?
What I MEAN is FOUND and DISCOVERED through CLARIFICATION.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:09 pm No one has ever been alive before.
Okay, if 'you' say and believe so.
Dontaskme wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:09 pm Everyone is just trying to figure everything out in their own way, and they are more than entitled to do so in their own way, because there is no one else being that one who has never been born before, so this one who has never been born before is not expected to know anything really, except what is directly experienced for the first time and then memorized for future reference.
Are 'you' trying to figure out EVERY thing "dontaskme"?

If yes, then 'you' would be the ONLY one that I KNOW of.

Are 'you' absolutely SURE that EVERY one is just trying to figure EVERY thing out?
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

seeds wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:56 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:05 am
seeds wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:04 pm Clearly, we are both doing a lot of speculating here.
Ok, great. You are speculating and I am speculating. If the post I responded to was simply meant as speculation, great.

I encounter people on the internet who think they can rule things out with arguments similar to the one you made. Yours was present in a questioning form and you did not make any statements like...Thus we can rule out reincarnation. But I have seen lines of argument start that way or be intended as a kind of argument from incredulity. I think, opening the issue up more broadly, that people overestimate deduction. And not just around supernatural type issues. So, I tossed out some possibilities, as you say speculating. Deduction is obviously a very effective tool, but when we have very little information about something, it can be very misleading.
My main approach in evaluating whether or not some metaphysical or spiritual (or religion-based) assertion can be ruled out is by visualizing how it holds up when projected into eternity - trillions of years into the infinite future.
WHY ONLY the tiny number of just a 'trillion years'?
seeds wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:56 pm As I have written in a book I self-published back in 2008:
"Eternity is the ultimate frame of reference by which to measure the validity of any concept -- religious or otherwise -- that tries to describe the purpose and form we will acquire after death. If any alleged truth concerning our ultimate destiny appears to be flimsy, illogical, or short lived when evaluated in the context of eternity, then it should be abandoned."
And the point is that "reincarnation" is a flimsy (short-lived) concept that seems to fizzle-out when projected into eternity, for it doesn't provide us with the slightest clue as to what the "end goal" might be.
Are 'you', "seeds", NOT YET AWARE of what the 'end goal' ACTUALLY IS?

If no, then okay.

But what 'it' IS is VERY OBVIOUS when KNOWN.
seeds wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:56 pm Indeed, most of the standard presentations of reincarnation leaves one with the impression that the "end goal" of reincarnation is to be snuffed out of existence forever.

Either that, or reach the goal of being able to sit in a perpetual lotus position with no discernible purpose other than forever contemplating one's navel,...

Image

...neither of which sounds very logical or appealing, especially the "snuffing-out" one.

Now, as per your concerns, it would be presumptuous and foolish of me to completely rule out the possibility that reincarnation might be some sort of short-term feature of our existence.

However, as I pointed out earlier, even if we had to reincarnate a million times over a billion year period in order to reach some state where we no longer needed to reincarnate anymore,...then what?
The 'end goal' would have been REACHED, OBVIOUSLY.
seeds wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:56 pm Again, a billion years isn't even a grain of sand to eternity, and no matter what our mental, spiritual (general ontological) status may be once "moksha" has been achieved, eternity would still be looming before us in a vision of endlessness that defies our comprehension.
Part of the REASON WHY 'you', human beings, could NOT YET comprehend 'infinity' is because of the number 'you' LOOK AT and USE and because the ill-gotten and Wrong perception of 'time' that 'you' USE.
seeds wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:56 pm The ultimate point is that if our minds (souls) are truly meant to last forever, then in order to ward-off eternal (insanity inducing) boredom and uselessness, we simply must have something logical to do to occupy the passing of infinite time.
Saying, 'our' 'minds/souls', implies that there is an owner of these things.

So, WORK OUT what 'it' is EXACTLY, which is supposed to 'last forever' BEFORE 'you' start worrying about what 'you' or 'we' could do FOREVER.
seeds wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:56 pm Do you have any (reasonable) guesses as to what that might be?

I do...

...http://www.theultimateseeds.com/
_______
OBVIOUSLY 'you' have NOT YET GRASP the concept of what 'infinite time' ACTUALLY means and refers to, EXACTLY.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Dontaskme »

Beliefs We Are Absolutely Sure About!!!
Image

Reincarnation is for those who believe in it.
There is no reincarnation for those who don't believe in it.

It is the belief which is important.

UG says NO > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfzlp896CX8

JK says NO > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZPrIavAysY

From Belief to Clarity.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Walker »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:36 amblah blah blah
What I wrote about reincarnation does not conflict with those two.

Your understanding is so shallow, i.e., ignorant.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Dontaskme »

Walker wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:57 am
What I wrote about reincarnation does not conflict with those two.
Confirmation noted.

Not that I care.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Walker »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:50 pm
Walker wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:57 am
What I wrote about reincarnation does not conflict with those two.
Confirmation noted.

Not that I care.
No, that’s not enough. I don’t give a hoot in hell what or who you agree with.
All you did was allude, without explanation.

Doesn't work. It's just more indication that you don't know what you're talking about, which is just so obvious.

Those two agree with me. They proved that with their words. All their words. And I won’t quote all their words for you to reference.

You agree with me, and if you don't, you can't even explain why.

Your agreement, or disagreement, objectively means nothing until you prove it with your words.
So far you have not, and I don’t think you can.
Walker wrote: - Reincarnation is the embodiment of a quality that has existed before.
- Cat-like is a quality. Dog-like is a quality. Human-like is a quality. God-like is a quality.
- Each cat, dog, and human is an embodiment of those particular qualities.

- Man is made in the image of God.
- Therefore, each human is a reincarnation of … the image of God-like quality.

- And what might that be?
- Omniscence, limited by corruptions such as delusions, and just perhaps, limited by human form, although it’s a common trope that humans use only a fraction of their noggin potential, and Jesus Christ was a form of God leaning more towards God than delusion.

- Because memories pertain to the body and the experiences of the body, then when the body goes the way of all flesh, so goes the memories of that flesh just as quickly as a dream.

- What is the mechanism for qualities that have existed before, being passed along? Same as it is now.

- And what becomes of the person in the body, does the person survive?
- What is a person but memories, qualities, and the flesh? Memories and flesh are scattered to the wind, but qualities get reincarnated.
Walker wrote:Qualities (samskaras) are reincarnated. The body is not reincarnated, and all the mental activities relate to the body, so there is nothing to be remembered. Thus man, and his rib-tickling sidekick woman, are the image of God-like qualities ... but not exclusively. After all, we're only human, only filtered reflections of the sun.
the real miracle is the world found in a grain of sand.

What irritates you makes you stronger
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