Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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iambiguous
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by iambiguous »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:14 pm
iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:39 pm
Note to any Floridians here in the path of Ian:

Read this. Then get back to us after the storm bears down on thousands of other hapless souls. Well, once the power is restored. And you're still among the living.
Oh, pardon me. I missed the part where I sent that to people in danger. I thought I sent it to people in a philosophy forum. I must have had a black out or psychotic break.
Now, ain't that typical of the "serious philosopher"? Actual tens of thousands of flesh and blood human beings in the path of devastation. A thread created to connect the dots between that and those who worship and adore a God said to be both loving, just and merciful and omniscient/omnipotent...and we're sent here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/

Also, I already created a thread to deal with the "problem of evil" more along a theological/philosophical pathway: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=35199

This thread is aimed more specifically along this path...
So, what, given your own best thinking, was God [your God, their God, any God] thinking when He created planet Earth to make these ghastly "acts of God" inevitable.
I don't think that He [if He existed] would send us to that link myself.

But, sure, maybe He would.

And then, of course, make this all about me:
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:14 pmLet's treat your OP with the kind of skewed attack you aimed at me.

Note to any Floridians in the path of Ian: read the OP where someone is posing as already experiencing his empathy for your not yet occurred injuries and deaths, and then drifting into his narcissism at the end. The real issue is his wish that he had someone to blame for your deaths and injuries and how horrible it is for him not to have a deity to be enraged at on your behalf.

Get off your moral high horse you faux moral nihilist with your faux empathy you can't help but contradict in the same post.
Now, the question [mine] becomes this: what actually prompted this scathing declamation in which the whole issue here now basically does become about me?

How, apparently, he or she more definitively grasps my own motivations and intentions here than I think that I do myself. Though, again, admittedly, I'm no less "fractured and fragmented" there myself. Here's as close as I've ever come to grappling with it:

"He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest." John Fowles from The Magus

Maybe he or she will address this point more, uh, substantively and maybe he or she won't.

How about this...

A new thread in which we examine our respective philosophies at the existential intersection of identity, value judgments, conflicting goods and political economy. Given a particular set of circumstances that most here will be familiar with. That way as the discussion unfolds, Iwannaplato can note specific instances whereby his or her accusations against me become pertinent.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Iwannaplato »

iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:16 pmNow, ain't that typical of the "serious philosopher"? Actual tens of thousands of flesh and blood human beings in the path of devastation. A thread created to connect the dots between that and those who worship and adore a God said to be both loving, just and merciful and omniscient/omnipotent...and we're sent here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/

Also, I already created a thread to deal with the "problem of evil" more along a theological/philosophical pathway: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=35199
More narcissism. I should have known about this other thread, be a kind of scholar of Iamb's opus of threads, when I comment in one of his new threads.
So, what, given your own best thinking, was God [your God, their God, any God] thinking when He created planet Earth to make these ghastly "acts of God" inevitable.
[/quote]Right, and it couldn't possibly be useful for people to see how their positions might be supported and countered by philosophers. That couldn't possibly be a resource in a thread in a philosophy forum in a thread on this topic. It couldn't possibly lead to a more nuanced discussion where people are better able to defend their positions but also encounter stronger counterpostions.
Often in discussions like this it can be as if something has been permanently or effectively dismissed or defended when it hasn't. But what occurred to you....
That I was linking to something that I thought would comfort people in Florida. How insensitive or stupid of that Iwannaplato guy.
And then, of course, make this all about me:
Oh, I'm sorry. I should have done it implicitly about you like you did about me. Explcit bad, implicit just fine.
Now, the question [mine] becomes this: what actually prompted this scathing declamation in which the whole issue here now basically does become about me?
If you, that is you, the person, misrepresent what I did, I will react to that misrepresentation. I don't think the problem of evil or Ian or the existence or goodness of God is about you. That's a strawman. I never said the whole issue is about you.

I do, however, think your actions are about you. If you don't read and spend a moment on the link and make a couple of really poor assumptions about it, that's you doing something. Acting as if I was somehow being insensitive to the people in Florida was really a low and confused assumption on your part.

And I notice you do not respond to the main points in my post...

1) Anyone looking at that link would know very quickly that it is not something that is remotely intended as an solution to the problem of evil.
2) It would take malicious intent or idiocy to imply, which you the person did, that I thought this should be some kind of balm for the people in danger. So, YOU started with the personal attack for no reason.
3) There are reasons that that link can aid the very kind of discussion you intended for this thread. That it could in fact raise the level of discussion.

All you had to do, if you thought that it shifted the focus, was to say: hey, that's shifting the focus. That doesn't fit my topic. But no, you decided to try to make it look like I committed an insensitive act.

A hint: if you implicitly insult people or explicitly, and you do both, they may focus on you. Why? Because YOU did something. They may also aim your criteria at you or your posts, to show your hypocrisy or to show how silly you are being.

If you don't want there to be some!! focus on you, then don't be insulting for no reason.

Naively I thought you might acknowledge how you framed my post and me, if I pointed this out and parodied your approach and aimed it at the OP. You didn't or won't admit it how you misrepresented my intentions and even the link.

I'll drop this tangent. And I am sure you're posts from here on out will be well suited to be sent to Florida residents. But Jesus talk about passive aggressive shit. They focus on me. I don't know why. Perhaps they can't face my arguments. Even Nietschze couldn't go as far as I do. Poor me.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Dontaskme »

iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:11 pm So, what, given your own best thinking, was God [your God, their God, any God] thinking when He created planet Earth to make these ghastly "acts of God" inevitable.
Think about it...here, you have thought about the idea that the planet earth has been 'Created'...by a 'Deity' perhaps?

But you cannot know for absolute certainty that the planet earth has been created, can you? how could you ever know for sure?

And yet you seem to think pretty easily that is was created and you've even made up a name for the creator, which you have thought of as God. But don't you see, you simply cannot know what it is you THINK you know, because all you are dealing with are your 'thoughts' about this.

I've personally come to the conclusion that there is no way of knowing anything about reality, except for what my 'thoughts' put there.

So, heck, we cannot even know how we are able to 'think' for that matter, we cannot even know what 'thought' is. It seems to me that life is just an endless cycle of creation and destruction, or an endless series of seamless cause and effect happenings.

It does rather seem there is no how or why or purpose or reason for any of this life happening, simply because if there were any how or why or reason or purpose to life, that would still be unknowable to us, because those 'thoughts' would still only be put there by our own mental capacity to think about this, again using 'thoughts' we know nothing about.

We simply cannot KNOW anything really. So there is no point in trying to fathom anything out when it comes to a Creator of this unknowable reality.


All you are doing here, and seems we're all doing here, is divulging in our own imagination ABOUT what we can only think about, using thoughts we know nothing about.

It's no good blaming any thing for what happens in life, because we cannot even know why or how life is happening at all, only that it is.

God is a 'thought'

But does a 'thought' think? Does the 'thought' create a 'thinker'? where is the 'thinker' without the 'thought'? and where is the 'thought' exactly?

In reality, nothing can be known about reality, and it seems to be an untenable position to be in, to be this not-knowing knowing.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Dontaskme »

So why should we care about dying anyway? we were not aware of our existence before we were aware of our existence. We couldn't possibly be aware of non-existence, so all we can be is existence anyway. Existence is all we can ever really know. Although it seems like to exist can be a harmful experience, is anything ever really being harmed? The cessation or sensation of pain comes and goes, it is never a permanent experience of anything. As life is dying it is being renewed and replenished in the exact same instance of existing.

For me personally, being alive is pretty much like being dead. There is no difference, and that any difference is simply appearance. We're either being aware of things, or we are being aware of no things, like in deep dreamless sleep. And so really, all these 'things' are just temporal experiences passing through our awareness as if they didn't or never existed anyway. 'Things' as in distractions, some 'thing' to be aware of which in the exact same moment creates the one who is aware of the 'thing'. It's just an automatic self-sustaining feedback loop forever. To be aware of 'thing' is to be alive, but to be aware of no 'thing' is to be dead. Seems birth and death are the same one state, just differing in appearance that's all.

But don't take my word for it, I just made all that up..out of 'thought' ..which I know nothing about, except as belief.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Sculptor »

bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:54 pm Have you ever had the suspicion that you, really you, are responsible?
:lol: :lol:

Yes everytime he farts a fairy dies.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Age »

iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:11 pm Hurricane Ian is about to smash into the West coast of Florida. Perhaps as the deadliest of all hurricanes...a category 5.

God knows [literally if there is one] how many people [men, women and children] will die or suffer terrible injuries. How many will lose everything to the storm. How many will find their lives all but in tatters.
Who cares?

God knows [literally] how many people [men, women and children] will die/d or suffer/ed terrible injuries, when people [men and women] from let us say the country where a bit stronger wind, than normally or usually occurs, and which is labeled and called 'ian' here, will just come over that country, and the people of that country INVADE other countries.

How many of those people who get INVADED will lose everything to those OTHER people? How many will find their lives all but in taters just because some people think it is perfectly all right to INVADE other countries and peoples.

If NO one was expecting a storm with relatively stronger than 'normally' experienced wind gusts to come over the land that they live upon, then these people should WAKE UP to "themselves" and REALIZE and UNDERSTAND that storms are a completely NECESSARY part of life and living.

People INVADING OTHER people's country is NOT, and I will repeat, is NOT, a NECESSARY part of life, NOR living.

Some 'things' should be EXPECTED, others NOT so. But, some adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, have it MIXED UP and BACK TO FRONT here.

If we just remove the completely 'emotive' words like SMASH INTO and perhaps as the DEADLIEST of ALL 'hurricanes', and just expressed, sensibly and reasonably, that a storm, with wind gusts higher than 'normally' happens, will cross a coast line, then we can LOOK AT 'this' from a MORE CLEARER and Truer perspective. That is, storms of varying wind velocity and/or varying wind gusts are just a VERY normal and natural part of Life. And, in fact, if it were NOT for storms like the one above, then 'you', human beings, would NOT have even come into being nor into even Existence, to begin with.
iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:11 pm So, what, given your own best thinking, was God [your God, their God, any God] thinking when He created planet Earth to make these ghastly "acts of God" inevitable.

BUT a storm is ONLY so-called 'ghastly' to those who perceive them as being 'ghastly'. And, 'trying to' 'argue' for your OWN position or BELIEF with OBVIOUSLY VERY 'emotive' words, in order to just garnish a 'reaction', does NOT mean that what you are 'trying to' fight or argue for is sound, valid, nor even logical.
1. God is OBVIOUSLY NOT a male gendered 'thing'.

2. God did NOT create to make so-called 'ghastly' 'acts of God'.
iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:11 pm Ironically, I wish that I could believe in God if only to have someone to hold responsible for all of these terrible "natural disasters".
So-called 'natural disasters' are ONLY called 'disasters' because 'you', human beings, LOSE what 'you' CLAIM are YOUR OWN, and what are essentially 'material things', which, when one LOOKS Honestly, came from the earth anyway, which is the way it is because of VERY NATURAL occurances, like the storm/s talked about above.

There is NO 'disaster' in the scheme of things.

There is, however, 'a disaster' to those who WHOLE lives revolve around just a minute FEW 'material things'.
iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:11 pm At least there would be a reason for all of the horrific pain and suffering.
There is NO REAL 'pain and suffering', except, OF COURSE, within children who have to ENDURE the ABUSE 'you', adult human beings, commit and perpetrate, on earth, and on children "themselves".

'you', adult human beings, are creating 'the world' that ALL HAVE TO live within. NO one else. Although 'you' would LOVE to LOOK FOR, LOOK AT, and BLAME some 'thing' ELSE, other than the ones who CREATED the MESS, and that is; "your" OWN 'selves'.
iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:11 pm And I'd sure be willing to settle for God's "mysterious ways" rather than in believing that these things happen in the way in which "shit happens"...in an essentially meaningless and purposeless world encompassed in the "brute facticity" of an utterly indifferent universe.
God's so-called 'mysterious ways' VANISH, completely, when accepting and taking RESPONSIBILITY, with Honesty, OPENNESS, and with a serious Want to CHANGE, for the better.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Walker »

promethean75 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:03 pm What I really believe is that God sent the hurricane to punish DeSantis for sending Mexicans to Martha's Vineyard.

'the Floridians will pay for the sins of their governors' - Bro Cepheus 7:2
In your belief system, God's accomplices are those who prayed to punish DeSantis.
God's accomplices can't be The Left, since they don't pray to God.
Can't be The Right because DeSantis is right.

God's accomplice must be nature, since it can't pray.

Can't sue God for damages. Sue nature.
Last edited by Walker on Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Age »

iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:33 pm
bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:54 pm Have you ever had the suspicion that you, really you, are responsible?
Nope, not once.

In fact, if it were in my power, I'd put a stop to this...

"...an endless procession of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions and tornadoes and hurricanes and great floods and great droughts and great fires and deadly viral and bacterial plagues and miscarriages and hundreds and hundreds of medical and mental afflictions and extinction events...making life on Earth a living hell for countless millions of men, women and children down through the ages..."

...once and for all. And I suspect that it wouldn't strike me as mysterious at all as to why I would.
But WITHOUT those 'things' 'life' as 'you' KNOW 'it' would NOT be where 'it' IS, TODAY. That is; WITHOUT those 'things' 'life', including 'you', human beings, would NOT have come to be, as 'you' are NOW.

Now, ALSO, ALL young children, and ALL 'human beings' up to a certain point in history, were NOT living in a 'living hell'. That was; UNTIL 'you', adult human beings, made life on earth a living hell for countless millions of 'you', men, women, and children, from then on, for ages.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Age »

iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:39 pm
Note to any Floridians here in the path of Ian:

Read this. Then get back to us after the storm bears down on thousands of other hapless souls. Well, once the power is restored. And you're still among the living.
Have you EVER been AT ALL concerned for the ACTUAL hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of those who have ACTUALLY been ATTACKED by human being CREATED weapons?

Also, just think of ANY time so-called "americans" INVADED other countries. Now, think about HOW MANY men, women, AND children HAVE DIED, so far, in those times, and compare that with HOW MANY have, and will, DIE from just naturally occurring and NEEDED storms.
Last edited by Age on Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Belinda »

bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:54 pm Have you ever had the suspicion that you, really you, are responsible?
That would be magical thinking which does not serve the cause of any decent religion.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Age »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:20 pm Perhaps 'god' doesn't even like humans...
God CERTAINLY DOES NOT like a fair amount of adult human beings do anyway.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Walker »

promethean75 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:03 pm What I really believe is that God sent the hurricane to punish DeSantis for sending Mexicans to Martha's Vineyard.

'the Floridians will pay for the sins of their governors' - Bro Cepheus 7:2
… continued.

Wait a minute. Who said we can’t sue God?

Think about it. Make every Christian church liable for Acts of God. This is the wet dream of The Left.

The population has proved to be compliant enough to accept this new revenue stream for the government.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Age »

Walker wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:20 pm Cat 4 is nothing to sneeze at. One year, for the fun of it and to see what's what, we took a journey through North Carolina during a Cat 1 at night, on some concocted long-distance errand which often is our wont. We were about a hundred miles inland on I95 paralleling the coast (N-S highway numbers are odd numbers). Inland tropical air in the temperate zone is a big change, and of course the wind and rain was impressive. But that was a Cat 1, far from the Atlantic.

I heard one projection of an 18 foot storm surge for this Cat 4. That can't be possible, can it? They're usually just a few feet in those parts.
LOL NORMAL EVERYDAY tides are bigger than that in some parts of earth.

WHY, especially in the country where this ANOTHER storm is going to cross a coastline the people there seem to ABSOLUTELY OVER DRAMATIZE 'things', or ONLY become concerned or worried about 'things' when those 'things' happen in that one miserable little country, upon MANY countries?
Walker wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:20 pm If only the world had reverted to a pre-Industrial economy years ago, we wouldn't have these hurricanes. Then again, neither would we have the food supply and thus the population to build all the homes out of twigs and straw, no defense against Big Bad Wolves that live on the coastline.
As can be CLEARLY SEEN the ILLOGICAL ABSURDITIES are seemingly ENDLESS throughout this forum.
Walker wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:20 pm Conclusion: Through childhood indoctrination, God has taught man to build sturdy homes of brick (or modern equivalents). The fact that folks can't hear God is an indication of implications such as blindness, ignorance, and corruption, not to mention hard of hearingness. :|
But then there ARE GEMS, like this one here.

It is through childhood indoctrination 'you', adult human beings, BECAME BLIND and DEAF.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:38 pm Humans have no more significance on this earth than say a mosquito or a cockroach has.

The only thing of value here for the human being is it's capacity to be more aware of itself due to it's larger brain and to be able to use that highly evolved awareness to recognise the harm of coming into existence and the pain and suffering that ensues for every living sentient organism. When a sentient organism is able to be aware it is aware, that's a positive attribute.
Supposedly 'positive' in regards to 'what', EXACTLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:38 pm As for the Hurricane, it's wise to not build houses that are directly within their path, houses that would be potentially wiped away were a cat 5 to swing by. But then that's the risk we all take. Life is a risk, I cannot see it could be any other way. Life forms are very fragile, especially against the force of nature and it's myriad of catastrophic causes and effects that no living thing on earth has any control over whatsoever. Especially the cause and effects that wiped out the dinosaurs to extinction. We're nothing special, we're just mindless replicating dna molecules taking a chance on life, being aware of the causes and effects and consequences. We are the watching of the creation and destruction of life, and that's all that is happening and will ever happen, and so we are still responsible for what we can change for the better until we finally succumb to natures ways.
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Re: Hurricane Ian and God...no, seriously

Post by Age »

bobmax wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:39 pm
iambiguous wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:48 pm Oh, now I see. You want to turn this into a technical, philosophical inquiry.

Okay, my thinking here goes like this:

Logically, epistemologically and, well, actually, I don't have any power whatsoever to stop this hurricane from devastating the lives of thousands of men, women and children. The children in particular. Therefore, technically and otherwise, I don't believe that, logically, epistemologically or, well, actually, I should be held responsible for any of the dire consequences that will unfold down there.
You don't have the power now.

But are you sure it's not you, just you, the origin of all things?

Doesn't what happens, everything that happens, ultimately depend on what you decided?

Isn't this world your choice?
But the word 'you', is in relation to 'you', human beings, of which there are MANY, and which OBVIOUSLY ALL of came AFTER the so-called and Wrongly called 'origin of ALL things'. Therefore, HOW, EXACTLY, could ANY one of 'you' be RESPONSIBLE for ALL 'things', as 'you', "bobmax", are implying here?
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