well actually there was a time when the “Cult of Reason” (a cult being a religion in France) was the official religion of the state in France. I do believe temples and the whole nine yards. So say what you want but people do worship human capability.
what is the religion of reason?
Re: what is the religion of reason?
Re: what is the religion of reason?
Yes, very good. But is the world basically chaotic? If so how can intelligent animals such as mankind discover any sort of truth about what will happen next?bobmax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:24 pmTruth cannot be explained or analyzed.Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:17 pmYes, but does The Truth exist as if the world is not chaotic, or does The Truth exist as man's aspiration and hope towards one of the virtues that transcend explanation and analysis?bobmax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:49 pm
Isn't it the same reason that chooses the best?
And reason on what grounds this choice, if not on itself?
Being there is the same multiple, which in its essence is the original subject-object split.
While being is what, being upstream of the split, allows it.
Being is the goal of every philosophy, of every spirituality.
Certainly there is gray in existence.
There can only be gray.
If there was white or black there would be the absolute!
While the absolute cannot be there: it would be its annihilation.
The Truth is not there, the Truth is.
Truth being what allows every explanation and every analysis.
Therefore Truth does not have a why.
However, while transcending any desire to understand, Truth is also what you have closest to yourself.
Because you are the Truth!
What else could you ever be?
Re: what is the religion of reason?
man is as he thinks, but he doesn't have to entertain any thought he does not which to, even if he should.
anything can be a god, back in the hay day of many gods and idols people seemed to worship just about anything under the sun. people can treat anything as a god, but the Creator and Judge most refer to today as the God, exists whether or not man treats Him as a God or not. in the Torah He who called Himself "I am that I am" said He would be their God, meaning the Israelites. Hence the One to be worshiped as a God.
Re: what is the religion of reason?
This observation of yours is very important.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:53 pm You get out of bed tomorrow. You have the day ahead of you. Can you connect what you wrote in the post above with your decisions, goals, reactions, etc?
When I get up in the morning I behave as always...
All these arguments of mine seem to have no influence on my way of life.
I am split in the contradiction, between what I gradually clarify to myself and how I live instead.
It would seem a paradoxical situation, but it is not.
Because my behavior depends on who I am, not on what I know.
What I know little by little can act on my own being, but it doesn't necessarily happen and not even when.
All of this must have to do with communication.
Which is existence itself in search of the Truth.
It is not a cognitive search, but a search for one's own being.
All this communication does not want to know, but wants to be.
The effort is from not being to being.
Re: what is the religion of reason?
Because of love.Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:22 pmYes, very good. But is the world basically chaotic? If so how can intelligent animals such as mankind discover any sort of truth about what will happen next?bobmax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:24 pm Truth cannot be explained or analyzed.
Truth being what allows every explanation and every analysis.
Therefore Truth does not have a why.
However, while transcending any desire to understand, Truth is also what you have closest to yourself.
Because you are the Truth!
What else could you ever be?
This is in my opinion the only possibility.
Chaos simmers in the depths of the world.
But nevertheless we live in the Cosmos. And so we can go into the world trying to understand it.
Cosmos is the manifestation of unconditional love.
Cosmos could not have been there, this horrible possibility has always been with me.
That the Cosmos is is an absurdity, its existence is so improbable that it borders on impossibility.
Yet the Cosmos is!
The impossible is possible, it is reality...
It can only be the fruit of love.
Re: what is the religion of reason?
Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he lovesbobmax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:33 pmBecause of love.Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:22 pmYes, very good. But is the world basically chaotic? If so how can intelligent animals such as mankind discover any sort of truth about what will happen next?bobmax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:24 pm Truth cannot be explained or analyzed.
Truth being what allows every explanation and every analysis.
Therefore Truth does not have a why.
However, while transcending any desire to understand, Truth is also what you have closest to yourself.
Because you are the Truth!
What else could you ever be?
This is in my opinion the only possibility.
Chaos simmers in the depths of the world.
But nevertheless we live in the Cosmos. And so we can go into the world trying to understand it.
Cosmos is the manifestation of unconditional love.
Cosmos could not have been there, this horrible possibility has always been with me.
That the Cosmos is is an absurdity, its existence is so improbable that it borders on impossibility.
Yet the Cosmos is!
The impossible is possible, it is reality...
It can only be the fruit of love.
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
Re: what is the religion of reason?
What you list is not love.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:12 am Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he loves
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
I think the word that most conveys the idea of love is "compassion".
But that is still insufficient.
Because it is the One.
That is, God, the Being.
God and love are the same.
God loves himself.
Re: what is the religion of reason?
I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:23 pmWhat you list is not love.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:12 am Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he loves
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
I think the word that most conveys the idea of love is "compassion".
But that is still insufficient.
Because it is the One.
That is, God, the Being.
God and love are the same.
God loves himself.
However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?
The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
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Re: what is the religion of reason?
"I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same."
by the ideas 'love' and 'truth' i understand those aspects of existing things that while determined to be what they are with perfect necessity, are not necessary modes of existence in themselves. 'god' or nature, on the other hand, is a necessarily existing thing in addition to being determined with perfect necessity.
i should narrow that down to just 'love' tho. 'truth' is just a logical descriptor, not a 'concept' or a thing or a process or anything experiential. But 'love', whatever it is or means, is certainly a contingent feature of the world and not to be identified with the essential nature of Nature.
by the ideas 'love' and 'truth' i understand those aspects of existing things that while determined to be what they are with perfect necessity, are not necessary modes of existence in themselves. 'god' or nature, on the other hand, is a necessarily existing thing in addition to being determined with perfect necessity.
i should narrow that down to just 'love' tho. 'truth' is just a logical descriptor, not a 'concept' or a thing or a process or anything experiential. But 'love', whatever it is or means, is certainly a contingent feature of the world and not to be identified with the essential nature of Nature.
Re: what is the religion of reason?
What you have listed may be understood as compassion, but from my experience genuine compassion is so much more.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pm I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.
However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?
The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
The rare times I've been compassion, because you don't feel compassion but you are, it was all-encompassing.
There is nothing that is not the object of compassion.
Everything is wrapped in compassion.
I cry for every person, every animal, every life, every thing, for every event.
It must have to do with the total lack of freedom...
But behind this lack, compassion seems to suggest absolute freedom.
Re: what is the religion of reason?
Forgive me for saying this, but what a load of flipping bollocks.bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 pm
The rare times I've been compassion, because you don't feel compassion but you are, it was all-encompassing.
There is nothing that is not the object of compassion.
Everything is wrapped in compassion.
I cry for every person, every animal, every life, every thing, for every event.
It must have to do with the total lack of freedom...
But behind this lack, compassion seems to suggest absolute freedom.
Re: what is the religion of reason?
It would appear that truth is a simple logical descriptor, but it is not.promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:58 pm "I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same."
by the ideas 'love' and 'truth' i understand those aspects of existing things that while determined to be what they are with perfect necessity, are not necessary modes of existence in themselves. 'god' or nature, on the other hand, is a necessarily existing thing in addition to being determined with perfect necessity.
i should narrow that down to just 'love' tho. 'truth' is just a logical descriptor, not a 'concept' or a thing or a process or anything experiential. But 'love', whatever it is or means, is certainly a contingent feature of the world and not to be identified with the essential nature of Nature.
The truth permeates everything, gives it value.
It is the Foundation. And as such it often goes unnoticed.
Love is really "love" because it is true.
Being is really Being because Being True.
Both good and evil are so only because they are true.
Truth seems to be only the necessary condition for a logical process.
But it is much more.
The logical process itself receives all its meaning from truth.
Death has all its strength in the fact that it is true.
All our action has meaning in the name of Truth.
Truth is so important that the only faith that is really needed is faith in the Truth.
While the claim to possess the Truth is the authentic blasphemy, which opens the door to nihilism.
Re: what is the religion of reason?
, You resemble Marianne in Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility.bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 pmWhat you have listed may be understood as compassion, but from my experience genuine compassion is so much more.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pm I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.
However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?
The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
The rare times I've been compassion, because you don't feel compassion but you are, it was all-encompassing.
There is nothing that is not the object of compassion.
Everything is wrapped in compassion.
I cry for every person, every animal, every life, every thing, for every event.
It must have to do with the total lack of freedom...
But behind this lack, compassion seems to suggest absolute freedom.
lovable, and learning to mix feeling with reason.
Re: what is the religion of reason?
yea but you are forming a god in your own image and likeness, which isn't the Living God. the concept is that the Living God who is what He is forms you into His image and likeness. if you form your own god, it may be a god by definition, but its only what you think is good in your own judgement, and technically narcissistic and that god only exists in your imagination.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pmI agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:23 pmWhat you list is not love.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:12 am Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he loves
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
I think the word that most conveys the idea of love is "compassion".
But that is still insufficient.
Because it is the One.
That is, God, the Being.
God and love are the same.
God loves himself.
However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?
The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
Re: what is the religion of reason?
You say " the concept is-----". Note you use the definite article. Or are there as many gods as there are persons? The only way out of the dilemma is negative theology. According to negative theology nobody has any authority to affirm God is this or God is that. All we can know is there is something that is not ourself.DPMartin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:26 pmyea but you are forming a god in your own image and likeness, which isn't the Living God. the concept is that the Living God who is what He is forms you into His image and likeness. if you form your own god, it may be a god by definition, but its only what you think is good in your own judgement, and technically narcissistic and that god only exists in your imagination.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pmI agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.
However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?
The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
The only way to become what is not ourself is the mystic's way, sometimes described as complete abnegation of self in compassion towards what is not self.
The above compassion strategy has a time limit set by existential needs. Nobody is Jesus Christ and sooner or later unless you want to become a martyr you have to return to the world of separate egos. You need to find food and eat it. You need to sleep and find a shelter for sleeping in. You need to find medical care for your child.