what is the religion of reason?

[DPMartin]

I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.

However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?

The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.

yea but you are forming a god in your own image and likeness, which isn't the Living God. the concept is that the Living God who is what He is forms you into His image and likeness. if you form your own god, it may be a god by definition, but its only what you think is good in your own judgement, and technically narcissistic and that god only exists in your imagination.

You say " the concept is-----". Note you use the definite article. Or are there as many gods as there are persons? The only way out of the dilemma is negative theology. According to negative theology nobody has any authority to affirm God is this or God is that. All we can know is there is something that is not ourself.

Well see, you’re wrong there, the Living God can affirm there is a Living God by revelation to whom He would reveal Himself to, which would require asking.

The only way to become what is not ourself is the mystic's way, sometimes described as complete abnegation of self in compassion towards what is not self.

The Living God is a Spirit if that’s what you are speaking of, but there’s only One way. One God One way.

The above compassion strategy has a time limit set by existential needs. Nobody is Jesus Christ and sooner or later unless you want to become a martyr you have to return to the world of separate egos. You need to find food and eat it. You need to sleep and find a shelter for sleeping in. You need to find medical care for your child.

Well consider, since the Living God is creator and Judge that would mean He has provided everything necessary for the fulfillment of the Life He has given through His Son Jesus Christ. There’s no martyrdom involved unless you live in a Islam nation or maybe still China. And still Christians are trying to get out of Muslim nations as we speak. They are not seeking martyrdom at all.

Martyrs in the NT such as the Apostles, were called to a special job or service so others would not have to.

[Belinda]

yea but you are forming a god in your own image and likeness, which isn't the Living God. the concept is that the Living God who is what He is forms you into His image and likeness. if you form your own god, it may be a god by definition, but its only what you think is good in your own judgement, and technically narcissistic and that god only exists in your imagination.

You say " the concept is-----". Note you use the definite article. Or are there as many gods as there are persons? The only way out of the dilemma is negative theology. According to negative theology nobody has any authority to affirm God is this or God is that. All we can know is there is something that is not ourself.

Well see, you’re wrong there, the Living God can affirm there is a Living God by revelation to whom He would reveal Himself to, which would require asking.

The only way to become what is not ourself is the mystic's way, sometimes described as complete abnegation of self in compassion towards what is not self.

The Living God is a Spirit if that’s what you are speaking of, but there’s only One way. One God One way.

The above compassion strategy has a time limit set by existential needs. Nobody is Jesus Christ and sooner or later unless you want to become a martyr you have to return to the world of separate egos. You need to find food and eat it. You need to sleep and find a shelter for sleeping in. You need to find medical care for your child.

Well consider, since the Living God is creator and Judge that would mean He has provided everything necessary for the fulfillment of the Life He has given through His Son Jesus Christ. There’s no martyrdom involved unless you live in a Islam nation or maybe still China. And still Christians are trying to get out of Muslim nations as we speak. They are not seeking martyrdom at all.

Martyrs in the NT such as the Apostles, were called to a special job or service so others would not have to.

If there be a living God it's abundantly clear He did not provide enough food, air, water, moral wisdom, compassion, and reason. Jesus was a wise teacher and exemplar, however JC did not promise that he'd make this world a Pollyanna Paradise.

[Nick_A]

what is the religion of reason? Just how powerful can self-justification be? How is it that one can believe in reason as their god, worshiped as the most admirable thing? Truly they see it as the provider of all they need to know.

The religion or reason is becoming capable of experiencing top down deductive logic; to experience intuition and the ability to put empiricism into a higher perspective

1930
"Many people think that the progress of the human race is based on experiences of an empirical, critical nature, but I say that true knowledge is to be had only through a philosophy of deduction. For it is intuition that improves the world, not just following the trodden path of thought. Intuition makes us look at unrelated facts and then think about them until they can all be brought under one law. To look for related facts means holding onto what one has instead of searching for new facts. Intuition is the father of new knowledge, while empiricism is nothing but an accumulation of old knowledge. Intuition, not intellect, is the ‘open sesame’ of yourself." -- Albert Einstein, in Einstein and the Poet – In Search of the Cosmic Man by William Hermanns (Branden Press, 1983, p. 16.), conversation March 4, 1930

[DPMartin]

You say " the concept is-----". Note you use the definite article. Or are there as many gods as there are persons? The only way out of the dilemma is negative theology. According to negative theology nobody has any authority to affirm God is this or God is that. All we can know is there is something that is not ourself.

Well see, you’re wrong there, the Living God can affirm there is a Living God by revelation to whom He would reveal Himself to, which would require asking.

The only way to become what is not ourself is the mystic's way, sometimes described as complete abnegation of self in compassion towards what is not self.

The Living God is a Spirit if that’s what you are speaking of, but there’s only One way. One God One way.

The above compassion strategy has a time limit set by existential needs. Nobody is Jesus Christ and sooner or later unless you want to become a martyr you have to return to the world of separate egos. You need to find food and eat it. You need to sleep and find a shelter for sleeping in. You need to find medical care for your child.

Well consider, since the Living God is creator and Judge that would mean He has provided everything necessary for the fulfillment of the Life He has given through His Son Jesus Christ. There’s no martyrdom involved unless you live in a Islam nation or maybe still China. And still Christians are trying to get out of Muslim nations as we speak. They are not seeking martyrdom at all.

Martyrs in the NT such as the Apostles, were called to a special job or service so others would not have to.

If there be a living God it's abundantly clear He did not provide enough food, air, water, moral wisdom, compassion, and reason. Jesus was a wise teacher and exemplar, however JC did not promise that he'd make this world a Pollyanna Paradise.

you've been given the world, maybe most of that is your job.

[DPMartin]

what is the religion of reason? Just how powerful can self-justification be? How is it that one can believe in reason as their god, worshiped as the most admirable thing? Truly they see it as the provider of all they need to know.

The religion or reason is becoming capable of experiencing top down deductive logic; to experience intuition and the ability to put empiricism into a higher perspective

1930
"Many people think that the progress of the human race is based on experiences of an empirical, critical nature, but I say that true knowledge is to be had only through a philosophy of deduction. For it is intuition that improves the world, not just following the trodden path of thought. Intuition makes us look at unrelated facts and then think about them until they can all be brought under one law. To look for related facts means holding onto what one has instead of searching for new facts. Intuition is the father of new knowledge, while empiricism is nothing but an accumulation of old knowledge. Intuition, not intellect, is the ‘open sesame’ of yourself." -- Albert Einstein, in Einstein and the Poet – In Search of the Cosmic Man by William Hermanns (Branden Press, 1983, p. 16.), conversation March 4, 1930

Just because people exercise reason and intuition bla bla bla, doesn’t mean it’s a religion to them, nor does it mean they place it as a most high or a god or idolize reason. Many people use reason, doesn’t mean they are worshipers thereof.

[Belinda]

Well see, you’re wrong there, the Living God can affirm there is a Living God by revelation to whom He would reveal Himself to, which would require asking.



The Living God is a Spirit if that’s what you are speaking of, but there’s only One way. One God One way.



Well consider, since the Living God is creator and Judge that would mean He has provided everything necessary for the fulfillment of the Life He has given through His Son Jesus Christ. There’s no martyrdom involved unless you live in a Islam nation or maybe still China. And still Christians are trying to get out of Muslim nations as we speak. They are not seeking martyrdom at all.

Martyrs in the NT such as the Apostles, were called to a special job or service so others would not have to.

If there be a living God it's abundantly clear He did not provide enough food, air, water, moral wisdom, compassion, and reason. Jesus was a wise teacher and exemplar, however JC did not promise that he'd make this world a Pollyanna Paradise.

you've been given the world, maybe most of that is your job.

A lot of it anyway! So the Deity is not all-powerful then.

[DPMartin]

If there be a living God it's abundantly clear He did not provide enough food, air, water, moral wisdom, compassion, and reason. Jesus was a wise teacher and exemplar, however JC did not promise that he'd make this world a Pollyanna Paradise.

you've been given the world, maybe most of that is your job.

A lot of it anyway! So the Deity is not all-powerful then.

i didn't say that, did i?

[Belinda]

you've been given the world, maybe most of that is your job.

A lot of it anyway! So the Deity is not all-powerful then.

i didn't say that, did i?

The Deity options:
a) the Deity made all the laws of nature at the beginning of time and then He went far far away and never showed His face again.

b) the Deity is a continuing ground of being for every temporal event and every law of nature and we can 'see' the Deity in every event.

c) the Deity is basically as in a) but occasionally intervenes in nature in the form of miracles or answers to prayer, or because He chooses to do so.

So which sort of Deity is your choice?

[DPMartin]

A lot of it anyway! So the Deity is not all-powerful then.

i didn't say that, did i?

The Deity options:
a) the Deity made all the laws of nature at the beginning of time and then He went far far away and never showed His face again.

b) the Deity is a continuing ground of being for every temporal event and every law of nature and we can 'see' the Deity in every event.

c) the Deity is basically as in a) but occasionally intervenes in nature in the form of miracles or answers to prayer, or because He chooses to do so.

So which sort of Deity is your choice?

if you think it's a choice, then you got it all wrong.

[Belinda]

i didn't say that, did i?

The Deity options:
a) the Deity made all the laws of nature at the beginning of time and then He went far far away and never showed His face again.

b) the Deity is a continuing ground of being for every temporal event and every law of nature and we can 'see' the Deity in every event.

c) the Deity is basically as in a) but occasionally intervenes in nature in the form of miracles or answers to prayer, or because He chooses to do so.

So which sort of Deity is your choice?

if you think it's a choice, then you got it all wrong.

If you can't choose what to believe you are:
a) a very young infant

b) brainwashed

c) a robot

d) lacking a thinking brain

e) demented or psychotic

f) immersed in a culture where unbelief is literally unthinkable.

[promethean75]

"the Deity made all the laws of nature at the beginning of time and then He went far far away and never showed His face again."

good! don't come around here no more, God.

[Iwannaplato]

The Deity options:
a) the Deity made all the laws of nature at the beginning of time and then He went far far away and never showed His face again.

b) the Deity is a continuing ground of being for every temporal event and every law of nature and we can 'see' the Deity in every event.

c) the Deity is basically as in a) but occasionally intervenes in nature in the form of miracles or answers to prayer, or because He chooses to do so.

So which sort of Deity is your choice?

if you think it's a choice, then you got it all wrong.

If you can't choose what to believe you are:
a) a very young infant

b) brainwashed

c) a robot

d) lacking a thinking brain

e) demented or psychotic

f) immersed in a culture where unbelief is literally unthinkable.

What is something you recently chose to believe? How did you choose to believe it? Could you have chosen to believe something else? Could you chose to believe something else instead now? How would you make that choice?

[Belinda]

if you think it's a choice, then you got it all wrong.

If you can't choose what to believe you are:
a) a very young infant

b) brainwashed

c) a robot

d) lacking a thinking brain

e) demented or psychotic

f) immersed in a culture where unbelief is literally unthinkable.

What is something you recently chose to believe? How did you choose to believe it? Could you have chosen to believe something else? Could you chose to believe something else instead now? How would you make that choice?

About ten days ago I was persuaded of a view xyz by a man who is more astute and knowledgeable than I am.
Traditionally it's easier for a woman to be persuaded by a respectable man, more so than vice versa, as men are traditionally supposed to be the persuaders and even today suffer ego damage if they are confronted by women cleverer than they.

The persuasion xyz has so far endured for a little more than a week, and in our experience will need refreshing otherwise I tend to forget the argument.

[Iwannaplato]

About ten days ago I was persuaded of a view xyz by a man who is more astute and knowledgeable than I am.
Traditionally it's easier for a woman to be persuaded by a respectable man, more so than vice versa, as men are traditionally supposed to be the persuaders and even today suffer ego damage if they are confronted by women cleverer than they.

The persuasion xyz has so far endured for a little more than a week, and in our experience will need refreshing otherwise I tend to forget the argument.

You were persuaded. He presented arguments and evidence and these changed your mind. You didn't decide to change your belief. You were affected by what you experienced.

To decide to change a belief would be something like.
I don't believe X.
I want to believe X.
and either
Now, because I decided, I believe X.
Or you find some process to convince yourself.

But that would be a bit odd.

[bobmax]

About ten days ago I was persuaded of a view xyz by a man who is more astute and knowledgeable than I am.
Traditionally it's easier for a woman to be persuaded by a respectable man, more so than vice versa, as men are traditionally supposed to be the persuaders and even today suffer ego damage if they are confronted by women cleverer than they.

The persuasion xyz has so far endured for a little more than a week, and in our experience will need refreshing otherwise I tend to forget the argument.

You were persuaded. He presented arguments and evidence and these changed your mind. You didn't decide to change your belief. You were affected by what you experienced.

To decide to change a belief would be something like.
I don't believe X.
I want to believe X.
and either
Now, because I decided, I believe X.
Or you find some process to convince yourself.

But that would be a bit odd.

I wonder, why do I believe what I believe?

Thinking about it, it is what comes towards me that makes me believe.
It is the other who requires to be believed.

But not as pure other, but as an idea of ​​the other.
And the other is anything, even the same thought.

In fact, to think it is necessary to believe.
That is, to believe in the rightness of one's thinking.

He who believes thinks, he who does not believe does not think.