what is the religion of reason?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Age
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Age »

bobmax wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:32 pm
DPMartin wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:16 pm well logic wasn't mentioned, though I can see what you’re getting at, I see it on philosophy web sites everywhere, but the subject is reason as a god and or religion. Many are closet worshipers of reason idolizing it.

granted logic is garbage in garbage out, reason is considered superior to that by most.
I mentioned logic to open the subject.
Because in reality it is precisely determined thought as such that is believed to be absolute truth.
And, 'who', EXACTLY, BELIEVES this? In 'reality', OF COURSE

Do 'you', "bobmax", REALLY BELIEVE that using words like; 'in reality' and 'precisely, provide MORE WEIGHT to or behind what 'you' are 'trying to' argue for?
bobmax wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:32 pm In a nutshell, it is the Identity Principle that is considered True regardless.
And the True is God himself.

Therefore, although one may not even be aware of it, it is A = A the God who is interpreted to be the foundation of reason.

Without, however, considering that the Principle of identity is a negation.
That is, A is not B, C, D, everything except A.

While God... is the negation of the negation
ALL that was asked for, in the opening post was:

What is the religion of reason?

Just how powerful can self-justification be?

How is it that one can believe in reason as their god, worshiped as the most admirable thing?

Truly they see it as the provider of all they need to know.

And, from what 'you' wrote here I can NOT SEE absolutely ANY thing resembling answering ANY one of these four questions posed.
Belinda
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Belinda »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.

Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.

Reason is the taking of something to be true because of some sort of rational and logical process based on evidence.



[/quote

Your definition of religion is the same as that of ubiquitous confirmation bias, yet religion is not ubiquitous as we know from the millions of our educated young people.


Which aspect of religion is not reasonable?

Mythologies (which mythologies?): moral codes: social rituals: magic: metaphysics: politicisation and establishment: hierarchical social control.

Each of these has been abandoned by different sects with varying results.
Age
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Age »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.
What does the word 'religion' even mean, or refer to, to you, "sculptor"?
Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.
Is there ANOTHER SOURCE ANYWHERE on the internet, which you can link us to, that has this SAME DEFINITION of YOURS here?

Or, is it possible that the 'religion' word could refer to ANY thing else, to you?
Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the taking of something to be true because of some sort of rational and logical process based on evidence.
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Sculptor »

Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:36 am
Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.

Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.

Reason is the taking of something to be true because of some sort of rational and logical process based on evidence.


Your definition of religion is the same as that of ubiquitous confirmation bias, yet religion is not ubiquitous as we know from the millions of our educated young people.


Which aspect of religion is not reasonable?

Mythologies (which mythologies?): moral codes: social rituals: magic: metaphysics: politicisation and establishment: hierarchical social control.

Each of these has been abandoned by different sects with varying results.
What's your definition of religion that is so much better?
Iwannaplato
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:26 am The idea of reason has a history. Socrates and Confucius were salient figures who advanced the idea of reason, and in modern Europe Descartes made a great leap forward that enable scientific enlightenment. I have not studied the history of reason as such however these few examples are common knowledge.
So, when DP Martin is talking about the religion of reason, what do you think me means by 'reason' in that phrase? I assumed he meant this in a pejorative sense. That people overvalue reason or have a kind of problematic faith in it, but he or she decline to clarify that or what was meant by reason here, in this thread. I see people having a variety of ideas about what reason is and wondered what he or she meant or what she thought
the reason was that others were worshipping. Any thoughts?

And as an aside, I think I agree, but since I am not sure what was meant, I'm trying to get more information.
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.

Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.
One would have to wonder, then, why people came up with ideas of hell, restrictions or sex, alcohol, emotional expression, eating and even naughty or 'naughty' thoughts as big parts of their religions. As a few examples. There are many others, I think, that would be odd if you were correct.
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Sculptor »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:21 am
Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.

Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.
One would have to wonder, then, why people came up with ideas of hell, restrictions or sex, alcohol, emotional expression, eating and even naughty or 'naughty' thoughts as big parts of their religions. As a few examples. There are many others, I think, that would be odd if you were correct.
I'm sure you can think this through for yourself
Religion is designed by society to control people. As kids they get all the good stuff and learn how to behave to get the rewards.
But rewards are useless without the threat of punishment.
Ultimately people want it to be true that they get their clouds and flowers and choruses of heavenly angels.
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Age »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:43 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:21 am
Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.

Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.
One would have to wonder, then, why people came up with ideas of hell, restrictions or sex, alcohol, emotional expression, eating and even naughty or 'naughty' thoughts as big parts of their religions. As a few examples. There are many others, I think, that would be odd if you were correct.
I'm sure you can think this through for yourself
Religion is designed by society to control people.
Do you think or BELIEVE that 'religion' is designed by society to control people 'more so' than what governments, laws and enforcement systems are, which are ALSO specifically designed by society to CONTROL people?

Or are they on equal par to you, or maybe even less so?
Sculptor wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:43 am As kids they get all the good stuff and learn how to behave to get the rewards.
But rewards are useless without the threat of punishment.
Ultimately people want it to be true that they get their clouds and flowers and choruses of heavenly angels.
WHY, EXACTLY, are 'rewards' supposedly USELESS WITHOUT 'the threat of punishment'?

Also, could YOUR INTERPRETATIONS be in ANY way wrong here? Or is this NOT a possibility?
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Belinda »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:12 am
Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:36 am
Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.

Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.

Reason is the taking of something to be true because of some sort of rational and logical process based on evidence.


Your definition of religion is the same as that of ubiquitous confirmation bias, yet religion is not ubiquitous as we know from the millions of our educated young people.


Which aspect of religion is not reasonable?

Mythologies (which mythologies?): moral codes: social rituals: magic: metaphysics: politicisation and establishment: hierarchical social control.

Each of these has been abandoned by different sects with varying results.

What's your definition of religion that is so much better?
A means of social control which is supported by a mythology. The recent celebratory ritual surrounding the death of Queen Elizabeth exemplifies both social control and mythology.
Iwannaplato
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:43 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:21 am
Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.

Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.
One would have to wonder, then, why people came up with ideas of hell, restrictions or sex, alcohol, emotional expression, eating and even naughty or 'naughty' thoughts as big parts of their religions. As a few examples. There are many others, I think, that would be odd if you were correct.
I'm sure you can think this through for yourself
Religion is designed by society to control people. As kids they get all the good stuff and learn how to behave to get the rewards.
But rewards are useless without the threat of punishment.
Ultimately people want it to be true that they get their clouds and flowers and choruses of heavenly angels.
So, religion is other things also, not just what you wrote initially. And it should be added that you have come up with practical reasons that certain people might have for making religion the way they did. IOW they used reason to achieve or to try to achieve their goals. So, there is and can be reason in religion, it would seem.
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Sculptor »

Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:01 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:12 am
Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:36 am

Your definition of religion is the same as that of ubiquitous confirmation bias, yet religion is not ubiquitous as we know from the millions of our educated young people.


Which aspect of religion is not reasonable?

Mythologies (which mythologies?): moral codes: social rituals: magic: metaphysics: politicisation and establishment: hierarchical social control.

Each of these has been abandoned by different sects with varying results.

What's your definition of religion that is so much better?
A means of social control which is supported by a mythology. The recent celebratory ritual surrounding the death of Queen Elizabeth exemplifies both socia what l control and mythology.
That's absurd, then to criticise what I said about religion, if that is what you are saying, since in order to control the population what you need is to give people a thing the WANT TO belief.
This Forum is getting tedious when people who agree always respond with attacks.
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Sculptor »

Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:29 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:43 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:21 am One would have to wonder, then, why people came up with ideas of hell, restrictions or sex, alcohol, emotional expression, eating and even naughty or 'naughty' thoughts as big parts of their religions. As a few examples. There are many others, I think, that would be odd if you were correct.
I'm sure you can think this through for yourself
Religion is designed by society to control people. As kids they get all the good stuff and learn how to behave to get the rewards.
But rewards are useless without the threat of punishment.
Ultimately people want it to be true that they get their clouds and flowers and choruses of heavenly angels.
So, religion is other things also, not just what you wrote initially....

Fucking DUH
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by DPMartin »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.

Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.

Reason is the taking of something to be true because of some sort of rational and logical process based on evidence.
So, you're saying you acknowledge reason as the most high entity, correct? If so, then you’re saying you are your most high entity seeing reason is a product of the mind or thought.
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Sculptor »

DPMartin wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:18 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.

Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.

Reason is the taking of something to be true because of some sort of rational and logical process based on evidence.
So, you're saying you acknowledge reason as the most high entity, correct? If so, then you’re saying you are your most high entity seeing reason is a product of the mind or thought.
What is your reason for saying that?
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Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by DPMartin »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:05 pm
DPMartin wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:18 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:16 pm Reason is the antithesis of religion.

Religion is the taking of something to be true because you wish that thing to be so.

Reason is the taking of something to be true because of some sort of rational and logical process based on evidence.
So, you're saying you acknowledge reason as the most high entity, correct? If so, then you’re saying you are your most high entity seeing reason is a product of the mind or thought.
What is your reason for saying that?
apparently you don't have an answer for what i asked
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