what is the religion of reason?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

DPMartin
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:11 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by DPMartin »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:34 pm An oxymoron if ever I saw one :lol:
well actually there was a time when the “Cult of Reason” (a cult being a religion in France) was the official religion of the state in France. I do believe temples and the whole nine yards. So say what you want but people do worship human capability.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Belinda »

bobmax wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:24 pm
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:17 pm
bobmax wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:49 pm

Isn't it the same reason that chooses the best?
And reason on what grounds this choice, if not on itself?

Being there is the same multiple, which in its essence is the original subject-object split.

While being is what, being upstream of the split, allows it.

Being is the goal of every philosophy, of every spirituality.

Certainly there is gray in existence.
There can only be gray.

If there was white or black there would be the absolute!
While the absolute cannot be there: it would be its annihilation.

The Truth is not there, the Truth is.
Yes, but does The Truth exist as if the world is not chaotic, or does The Truth exist as man's aspiration and hope towards one of the virtues that transcend explanation and analysis?
Truth cannot be explained or analyzed.
Truth being what allows every explanation and every analysis.
Therefore Truth does not have a why.

However, while transcending any desire to understand, Truth is also what you have closest to yourself.
Because you are the Truth!
What else could you ever be?
Yes, very good. But is the world basically chaotic? If so how can intelligent animals such as mankind discover any sort of truth about what will happen next?
DPMartin
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:11 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by DPMartin »

Age wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:19 am
What is 'the mind', and, what is 'a god', EXACTLY?
man is as he thinks, but he doesn't have to entertain any thought he does not which to, even if he should.

anything can be a god, back in the hay day of many gods and idols people seemed to worship just about anything under the sun. people can treat anything as a god, but the Creator and Judge most refer to today as the God, exists whether or not man treats Him as a God or not. in the Torah He who called Himself "I am that I am" said He would be their God, meaning the Israelites. Hence the One to be worshiped as a God.
bobmax
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:38 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by bobmax »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:53 pm You get out of bed tomorrow. You have the day ahead of you. Can you connect what you wrote in the post above with your decisions, goals, reactions, etc?
This observation of yours is very important.
When I get up in the morning I behave as always...

All these arguments of mine seem to have no influence on my way of life.
I am split in the contradiction, between what I gradually clarify to myself and how I live instead.

It would seem a paradoxical situation, but it is not.
Because my behavior depends on who I am, not on what I know.
What I know little by little can act on my own being, but it doesn't necessarily happen and not even when.

All of this must have to do with communication.
Which is existence itself in search of the Truth.

It is not a cognitive search, but a search for one's own being.
All this communication does not want to know, but wants to be.
The effort is from not being to being.
bobmax
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:38 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by bobmax »

Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:22 pm
bobmax wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:24 pm Truth cannot be explained or analyzed.
Truth being what allows every explanation and every analysis.
Therefore Truth does not have a why.

However, while transcending any desire to understand, Truth is also what you have closest to yourself.
Because you are the Truth!
What else could you ever be?
Yes, very good. But is the world basically chaotic? If so how can intelligent animals such as mankind discover any sort of truth about what will happen next?
Because of love.

This is in my opinion the only possibility.
Chaos simmers in the depths of the world.
But nevertheless we live in the Cosmos. And so we can go into the world trying to understand it.

Cosmos is the manifestation of unconditional love.

Cosmos could not have been there, this horrible possibility has always been with me.
That the Cosmos is is an absurdity, its existence is so improbable that it borders on impossibility.
Yet the Cosmos is!

The impossible is possible, it is reality...
It can only be the fruit of love.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Belinda »

bobmax wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:33 pm
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:22 pm
bobmax wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:24 pm Truth cannot be explained or analyzed.
Truth being what allows every explanation and every analysis.
Therefore Truth does not have a why.

However, while transcending any desire to understand, Truth is also what you have closest to yourself.
Because you are the Truth!
What else could you ever be?
Yes, very good. But is the world basically chaotic? If so how can intelligent animals such as mankind discover any sort of truth about what will happen next?
Because of love.

This is in my opinion the only possibility.
Chaos simmers in the depths of the world.
But nevertheless we live in the Cosmos. And so we can go into the world trying to understand it.

Cosmos is the manifestation of unconditional love.

Cosmos could not have been there, this horrible possibility has always been with me.
That the Cosmos is is an absurdity, its existence is so improbable that it borders on impossibility.
Yet the Cosmos is!

The impossible is possible, it is reality...
It can only be the fruit of love.
Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he loves
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
bobmax
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:38 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by bobmax »

Belinda wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:12 am Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he loves
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
What you list is not love.
I think the word that most conveys the idea of ​​love is "compassion".

But that is still insufficient.

Because it is the One.
That is, God, the Being.

God and love are the same.
God loves himself.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Belinda »

bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:23 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:12 am Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he loves
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
What you list is not love.
I think the word that most conveys the idea of ​​love is "compassion".

But that is still insufficient.

Because it is the One.
That is, God, the Being.

God and love are the same.
God loves himself.
I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.

However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?

The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
promethean75
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by promethean75 »

"I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same."

by the ideas 'love' and 'truth' i understand those aspects of existing things that while determined to be what they are with perfect necessity, are not necessary modes of existence in themselves. 'god' or nature, on the other hand, is a necessarily existing thing in addition to being determined with perfect necessity.

i should narrow that down to just 'love' tho. 'truth' is just a logical descriptor, not a 'concept' or a thing or a process or anything experiential. But 'love', whatever it is or means, is certainly a contingent feature of the world and not to be identified with the essential nature of Nature.
bobmax
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:38 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by bobmax »

Belinda wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pm I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.

However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?

The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
What you have listed may be understood as compassion, but from my experience genuine compassion is so much more.

The rare times I've been compassion, because you don't feel compassion but you are, it was all-encompassing.

There is nothing that is not the object of compassion.
Everything is wrapped in compassion.

I cry for every person, every animal, every life, every thing, for every event.

It must have to do with the total lack of freedom...
But behind this lack, compassion seems to suggest absolute freedom.
User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 9452
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Harbal »

bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 pm

The rare times I've been compassion, because you don't feel compassion but you are, it was all-encompassing.

There is nothing that is not the object of compassion.
Everything is wrapped in compassion.

I cry for every person, every animal, every life, every thing, for every event.

It must have to do with the total lack of freedom...
But behind this lack, compassion seems to suggest absolute freedom.
Forgive me for saying this, but what a load of flipping bollocks. :|
bobmax
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:38 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by bobmax »

promethean75 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:58 pm "I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same."

by the ideas 'love' and 'truth' i understand those aspects of existing things that while determined to be what they are with perfect necessity, are not necessary modes of existence in themselves. 'god' or nature, on the other hand, is a necessarily existing thing in addition to being determined with perfect necessity.

i should narrow that down to just 'love' tho. 'truth' is just a logical descriptor, not a 'concept' or a thing or a process or anything experiential. But 'love', whatever it is or means, is certainly a contingent feature of the world and not to be identified with the essential nature of Nature.
It would appear that truth is a simple logical descriptor, but it is not.
The truth permeates everything, gives it value.
It is the Foundation. And as such it often goes unnoticed.

Love is really "love" because it is true.
Being is really Being because Being True.
Both good and evil are so only because they are true.

Truth seems to be only the necessary condition for a logical process.
But it is much more.
The logical process itself receives all its meaning from truth.

Death has all its strength in the fact that it is true.
All our action has meaning in the name of Truth.

Truth is so important that the only faith that is really needed is faith in the Truth.

While the claim to possess the Truth is the authentic blasphemy, which opens the door to nihilism.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Belinda »

bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pm I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.

However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?

The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
What you have listed may be understood as compassion, but from my experience genuine compassion is so much more.

The rare times I've been compassion, because you don't feel compassion but you are, it was all-encompassing.

There is nothing that is not the object of compassion.
Everything is wrapped in compassion.

I cry for every person, every animal, every life, every thing, for every event.

It must have to do with the total lack of freedom...
But behind this lack, compassion seems to suggest absolute freedom.
, You resemble Marianne in Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility.
lovable, and learning to mix feeling with reason.
DPMartin
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:11 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by DPMartin »

Belinda wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pm
bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:23 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:12 am Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he loves
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
What you list is not love.
I think the word that most conveys the idea of ​​love is "compassion".

But that is still insufficient.

Because it is the One.
That is, God, the Being.

God and love are the same.
God loves himself.
I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.

However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?

The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
yea but you are forming a god in your own image and likeness, which isn't the Living God. the concept is that the Living God who is what He is forms you into His image and likeness. if you form your own god, it may be a god by definition, but its only what you think is good in your own judgement, and technically narcissistic and that god only exists in your imagination.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: what is the religion of reason?

Post by Belinda »

DPMartin wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:26 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pm
bobmax wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:23 pm

What you list is not love.
I think the word that most conveys the idea of ​​love is "compassion".

But that is still insufficient.

Because it is the One.
That is, God, the Being.

God and love are the same.
God loves himself.
I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.

However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?

The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
yea but you are forming a god in your own image and likeness, which isn't the Living God. the concept is that the Living God who is what He is forms you into His image and likeness. if you form your own god, it may be a god by definition, but its only what you think is good in your own judgement, and technically narcissistic and that god only exists in your imagination.
You say " the concept is-----". Note you use the definite article. Or are there as many gods as there are persons? The only way out of the dilemma is negative theology. According to negative theology nobody has any authority to affirm God is this or God is that. All we can know is there is something that is not ourself.

The only way to become what is not ourself is the mystic's way, sometimes described as complete abnegation of self in compassion towards what is not self.

The above compassion strategy has a time limit set by existential needs. Nobody is Jesus Christ and sooner or later unless you want to become a martyr you have to return to the world of separate egos. You need to find food and eat it. You need to sleep and find a shelter for sleeping in. You need to find medical care for your child.
Post Reply