A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Godfree
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by Godfree » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:17 pm

Firstly you need to understand life a bit better Aetixintro ,
sorry to point this out but we are all individuals , and try as we might to make us fit that religion or this belief , we are stubornly being individuals and thinking for ourselves .
No one belief system has it's followers all thinking the same .
The priest for example may have a very negative experience dealing with every bodies confessions , and may see his sheep as a bunch of depraved sexual perverts and molesters , and they might be . But this will change his view of people . Some are just in it for the money and morals don't come into it .
That would be capitalism .
There are as many christian capitalists as there are Atheists
you hold up religion as the higher moral ground ,
I as an Atheist do exactly the same.
The christian crusades should make you aware that during those time christians were the most ruthless immoral murderers on the planet.
eating babies on a spit and killing anyone who refused to bow down the their christian god .
on the surface of things it sounds like you had a point , but with deeper thinking and a longer look we can see that individuals are what make the difference .
Not what belief system they happened to be brought up with

Izzywizzy
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by Izzywizzy » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:47 pm

god free
The christian crusades should make you aware that during those time christians
Only problem is no one wants to blame Christians for one era when EXTREME ATHEISTS today have no morality or mercy for the people they kill..think recent times RED army MAO think more recent Pol Pot atheism think Extreme atheism ex hindu TERRORISTS no beliefs no conscience killers..your problem here "godfree" is that you don`t paint the whole picture which would in FACT portray more Atheists kill people today than any religion ..as for R Dawkins he is only a zoologist so hardly relevant in theistic terms..why listen to a zoologist if you want to know theism?? equally does a theist tell you how to change a bullcock in plumbing lol..its obvious you go to the wrong people to discover truths.

Godfree when i call and electrician I want an electrician..you call a zoologist to teach you god lol

duszek
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by duszek » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:01 pm

When someone who happens to be a member of a Christian church does something bad is it BECAUSE of his Christian faith or INSPITE OF his Christian faith ?

How to decide ?

Thundril
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by Thundril » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:01 pm

Of course, if you do a bit of research, you ought to be able to come up with some statistics relating, say, child murder state-by-state, and belief in God state by state.
Let me know what you find. It'll be interesting if your stats are radically different from mine, which put states like Texas near the top in both, and states like Sweden near the bottom in both. Hmmm. Wonder if there really is a connection between Godlessness and murder?

Izzywizzy
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by Izzywizzy » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:11 pm

again thundril wants to blame and shoot religion for child murders in texas lol..um the people or so called humans who killed those children were humans led by satan and not by a god. obviously .lets be clear here..demons and evil can lead even the pretentious religious astray...
I as a logical person would not begin to blame someones parents for what they do..equally i would not blame their religion for it..it could haV E SOMETHING TO DO WITH THEM TAKE RESPONSIBILITY..ATHEISM KILLS MORE TODAY THAN ANY RELIGION..FACT..DOES IT MEAN ATHEISM ALONE KILLS..ANSWER IS NO..JUST STATISTICALLY THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LIVE FOR AND KILL INSTEAD

i just think there is something radically wrong when zoologists like dawkins make more money laughing at someones faith than being paid to be who they are..ie zoologists..Dawkins ATHEISM is a money making racket nothing more so what does he do with his money? does he give to the poor ? lol hell no..he spends is on his self serving seminars to convert university students against god or theism
Last edited by Izzywizzy on Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

duszek
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by duszek » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:15 pm

A correlation does not mean a cause and effect chain.

Another example:

Atheists in Texas commit more crime than atheists in Sweden, statistically.
Is it because of the climate ?

People who drink tomato juice commit more thefts than those who drink red wine, statistically.
Does tomato juice make one more criminal ?

(These statistics do not exist, I invented them in order to explain what I mean.)

Thundril
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by Thundril » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:16 pm

Izzy, I have no wish to associate religious believers disproportionately with child murder. Which is why I suggest you do your own research, rather than believing or disbelieving mine.
Some people insist what they want to believe is trhe truth; some people suggest you consider the available evidence.
Guess which side the religious tend to fall on that divide?

Thundril
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by Thundril » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:17 pm

duszek wrote:A correlation does not mean a cause and effect chain.

Another example:

Atheists in Texas commit more crime than atheists in Sweden, statistically.
Is it because of the climate ?

People who drink tomato juice commit more thefts than those who drink red wine, statistically.
Does tomato juice make one more criminal ?

(These statistics do not exist, I invented them in order to explain what I mean.)
There is no imaginable connection between tomato juice and crime. There is a very real connection between religion and sourcves of morality.
Your analogy doesn't work. Sorry.

duszek
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by duszek » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:23 pm

In the novel "La femme lapidée" ("The stoned woman") a man throws a stone at a woman buried up to her neck and says: "it is not me, it is God who is moving my arm".

He knows that she had been framed because a divorce was too expensive for a man who wanted to get rid of her.

Is he a murderer BECAUSE of his religion ?

I would say no, because Koran does not say: you should stone an innocent woman if you want to get rid of her free of charge.

Did Jesus ever say: you should kill if .... ?

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Rortabend
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by Rortabend » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:41 pm

I drink tomato juice and I just got my first speeding ticket. Needless to say I'll be on the red wine when driving in the future.

duszek
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by duszek » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:45 pm

People who laugh a lot commit less crime than those who do not laugh.
Should we try to amuse a murderer with a good joke ?

Izzywizzy
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by Izzywizzy » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:45 pm

Thundril like i said to godfree and now you were portaying Christians disportionaltely..you deny this but read yourself back..look at the entire world and who kills more..then tell me what you find..are they atheists or christians? bet i know you won`t find Christians world wide doing this..btw one state ie in texas is nothing compared to cambodia right now..see i look at the entire picture not one photo ..you need to try it sometime

Thundril said
I have no wish to associate religious believers disproportionately
um but you just did with your state of texas example admit it

duszek
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by duszek » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:51 pm

Spanish speakers commit more crime than those speaking the Eskimo language.
(I made this up but look at South America.)

Shall we ban Spanish from schools ?
Should people in South America learn the Eskimo language ?

Thundril
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by Thundril » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:04 pm

duszek wrote:Spanish speakers commit more crime than those speaking the Eskimo language.
(I made this up but look at South America.)

Shall we ban Spanish from schools ?
Should people in South America learn the Eskimo language ?
Duszek; are you thick or just playing silly fuckers? There is a correlation between religious belief and moral standards. There is no correlation between having a US accent and having a desire to sprinkle Agent Orange on small children, is there?

Thundril
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Re: A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

Post by Thundril » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:13 pm

Izzywizzy wrote:Thundril like i said to godfree and now you were portaying Christians disportionaltely..you deny this but read yourself back..look at the entire world and who kills more..then tell me what you find..are they atheists or christians? bet i know you won`t find Christians world wide doing this..btw one state ie in texas is nothing compared to cambodia right now..see i look at the entire picture not one photo ..you need to try it sometime

Thundril said
I have no wish to associate religious believers disproportionately
um but you just did with your state of texas example admit it
Izzy. Thank you for at least arguing your point cogently! But honestly, I invited you to do your own research, and then see if your result was markedly different from mine. I didn't want to shove my own results down your throat; I merely indicated a couple of points from opposite ends of the graph. Please do your own research, and then tell me whether you have found any correlation, positive or negative, between child murder (or any other generally-reviled crime) and religion, whether Christian or any other. Admittedly the extreme points I selected from my statistics would, if taken alone, suggest a very strong positive relation, which is why, rather than presenting them as some sort of conclusive proof, I suggested very strongly that you do your own research.

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