An Omniscient God

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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An Omniscient God

Post by Dontaskme »

The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things.


I guess that means your “free will” was another LIE
Iwannaplato
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Iwannaplato »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:21 am The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things.


I guess that means your “free will” was another LIE
I'm not a Christian, but I don't think that word is in the Bible. The idea of a mathematically perfect there is nothing that is not know to God evne if this leads to paradoxes is a product of certain theologians. The Bible is a collection of expressive in many places and poetic in others texts. God's understanding need not be taken in this sense, but rather as beyond our ability to measure or understand.
Age
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Age »

One example of so-called 'perfect knowledge of things' is KNOWING that God is NOT and NEVER could be a "He" NOR a "he".
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Dontaskme
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Re: An Omniscient God

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Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:25 am
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:21 am The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things.


I guess that means your “free will” was another LIE
I'm not a Christian, but I don't think that word is in the Bible. The idea of a mathematically perfect there is nothing that is not know to God evne if this leads to paradoxes is a product of certain theologians. The Bible is a collection of expressive in many places and poetic in others texts. God's understanding need not be taken in this sense, but rather as beyond our ability to measure or understand.
Nevertheless, the word implies a knowledge that is absolute and unacquired.

Implying the illusion of “free will”

The point is… Nonduality is pointing to the exact same principle.

And if nonduality doesn’t make any sense then what hope of an all knowing God making sense?

Point is… nothing really makes any sense, so it’s pointless to even try.

Any attempt to know yourself will always be a theory or a story within the limitations of thought.
Iwannaplato
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Iwannaplato »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:53 am Nevertheless, the word implies a knowledge that is absolute and unacquired.
The word omniscient does but I don't think that is in the Bible. How would one talk about an entity that is so much more knowing. How does a dog or small child think about the knowledge of an adult? Can the Bible be being expressive rather than mathematically literal in those places where God's knowledge is talked about? From our perspective the knowledge would be beyond our ken, but that doesn't mean utterly complete.
Implying the illusion of “free will”
Yes, if God knows the future, then free will is problematic. But I don't think the Bible, especially as written, means that God must know everything that will happen in the future. Now many Christians think they have to defend this perfect knowledge, for some reason. The truth is that the Bible is written in varying types of texts, and one can talk is expressive terms about a being that knows all these things in superlative terms, but this does not necessarily mean that God is this perfect mathematically complete being that knows everything. Both atheists and many theists, especially Abrahamists have trouble letting go of this idea of God. And of course there are Christians who believe in determinism and not free will, like the Calvinists. And Islam seems to instill a kind of determistic attitude about the future also. But I see no reason to assume that the Bible means that God knows what you will do, period, so free will is ruled out.
The point is… Nonduality is pointing to the exact same principle.
I am not sure how we got to non-duality. What facet of Christianity are you talking about?
And if nonduality doesn’t make any sense then what hope of an all knowing God making sense?
Point is… nothing really makes any sense, so it’s pointless to even try.
I'm also not sure what you are referring to here.
Any attempt to know yourself will always be a theory or a story within the limitations of thought.
I don't think it has to be in the limitations of thought. There is feeling and non-verbal experiencing and knowing also. Yes, we are fallible, but I absolutely think that some people know themselves better than others do. I also think one can learn more about oneself in a variety of ways and also by choosing to and being willing to be disappointed and even horrified by what one finds. I don't think it's an all or nothing thing.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:53 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:25 am
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:21 am The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things.


I guess that means your “free will” was another LIE
I'm not a Christian, but I don't think that word is in the Bible. The idea of a mathematically perfect there is nothing that is not know to God evne if this leads to paradoxes is a product of certain theologians. The Bible is a collection of expressive in many places and poetic in others texts. God's understanding need not be taken in this sense, but rather as beyond our ability to measure or understand.
Nevertheless, the word implies a knowledge that is absolute and unacquired.

Implying the illusion of “free will”

The point is… Nonduality is pointing to the exact same principle.

And if nonduality doesn’t make any sense then what hope of an all knowing God making sense?

Point is… nothing really makes any sense, so it’s pointless to even try.

Any attempt to know yourself will always be a theory or a story within the limitations of thought.
How Wrong the 'you' IS here.
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Greatest I am
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Greatest I am »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:21 am The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things.


I guess that means your “free will” was another LIE
Both the bible and science show that we basically have no free will. That or a severely limited free will.

I could quote from both camps.

What make you think you have a free will that is not controlled by your instincts, DNA and chemistry within you?

Regards
DL
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Age »

Greatest I am wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:56 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:21 am The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things.


I guess that means your “free will” was another LIE
Both the bible and science show that we basically have no free will. That or a severely limited free will.
What does 'free will' refer to, to you?
Greatest I am wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:56 pm I could quote from both camps.

What make you think you have a free will that is not controlled by your instincts, DNA and chemistry within you?

Regards
DL
Because of what the words 'free will' refer to.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by bobmax »

Truth cannot be there, because if there was, existence would not be possible.

Nowhere will I ever find what is absolutely true.
If that happened, I could no longer exist.

Therefore even the Bible cannot be considered a source of Truth.
Rather, the Bible, like everything in the world, can awaken my faith in the Truth.

But it's always up to me to get the message.
Because the Truth can only be in ourselves.

The existence of individual free will is not a lie, but a necessary illusion.
To experience the adventure of this life, it is necessary to be unaware of who we really are.

Until the prodigal son comes home.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by attofishpi »

bobmax wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:33 pm Truth cannot be there, because if there was, existence would not be possible.

Nowhere will I ever find what is absolutely true.
If that happened, I could no longer exist.

Therefore even the Bible cannot be considered a source of Truth.
Rather, the Bible, like everything in the world, can awaken my faith in the Truth.

But it's always up to me to get the message.
Because the Truth can only be in ourselves.

The existence of individual free will is not a lie, but a necessary illusion.
To experience the adventure of this life, it is necessary to be unaware of who we really are.

Until the prodigal son comes home.
Well said Bob, but the son is quite happy at home already.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:21 am The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things.


I guess that means your “free will” was another LIE
God is absolutely knowledgeable:God is not relatively knowledgeable like what we are.

It may be the case there is no absolute knowledge, let alone no absolute Knower. Let's suppose the Universe is not chaotic, that there be absolute truth.

Absolute truth must be orderly( i.e. not chaotic)such that every part of that absolute truth is necessarily true. Therefore the relative knowledge each of us has, if it's also absolutely true , can't possibly originate in a world of relativity such as ours. Therefore no will to know the truth can be Free.
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iambiguous
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by iambiguous »

Here, note what the Christians at this site believe: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/a ... g-god.html

Seems pretty clear to me what the Bible is telling us.

As for reconciling omniscience with free will, there are of course the "intellectual contraption" arguments from those here like Immanual Can.

He strings words together that he first defines into existence into a "world of words" deduction that must be true because he "just knows" that it is. In his head, for example.

As for demonstrating that it is, you must first accept his own "standard of evidence". The same standard he uses to "demonstrate" that the Christian God resides in Heaven.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by bobmax »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:53 am Well said Bob, but the son is quite happy at home already.
Yes, but my soul still doesn't want to die.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Dontaskme »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:48 am The word omniscient does but I don't think that is in the Bible.
It is in the Bible insofar as the meaning of the word itself is being ascribed to a deity known as God. It's does not have to appear as the 'word' in and of itself, but the idea of it is there for sure. The idea is implied very clearly.

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:48 am How would one talk about an entity that is so much more knowing.
The word Omnisicient is being ascribed to a Father by the offspring of the Father, as if the offspring is the voice of the Father.

But the idea of an ''All-Knowing'' deity called God would be totally incompatible with the idea of humans having free-will.
If God already knows every single thing before it happens then every human life form will be pre-designated. There cannot be human 'free-will' if every human life is playing out according to a script.

Then there's the Christian idea that a person would be sent to burn in hell for eternity. But if God already knows 'Hell' then the very idea would be an act of evil, and the Christian's would have to admit that to themselves. What would be good about worshipping a deity that burns people forever. There is something very wrong and sick with the human mind to come up with something like that. The need for such vengence is a messed-up psychology. It's probably one of the most disgusting ideas to ever cross the human psyche. It says a lot about the condition of the human psyche in so many ways that is clearly beyond repair.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Dontaskme »

iambiguous wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:45 am Here, note what the Christians at this site believe: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/a ... g-god.html

Seems pretty clear to me what the Bible is telling us.

As for reconciling omniscience with free will, there are of course the "intellectual contraption" arguments from those here like Immanual Can.

He strings words together that he first defines into existence into a "world of words" deduction that must be true because he "just knows" that it is. In his head, for example.

As for demonstrating that it is, you must first accept his own "standard of evidence". The same standard he uses to "demonstrate" that the Christian God resides in Heaven.
Arguing with Christian religious fundamentalists is like talking to a bag of rocks.

Omniscience has no argument.
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