An Omniscient God

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Belinda
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Belinda »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:58 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:20 am DAM, as always, believes there is nothing but thinking makes it so, including selves. I agree with DAM insofar as, in a relative world, this is all we can know. However if we were omniscient we would know what selves are and what everything else is including values of good and evil. This is why omniscience is a key attribute of God.
I disagree Belinda. God is not omniscient (of the ENTIRE future).
But omniscience is absolute by definition. That's what the prefix omni means.

Your God may not be omniscient and that's your business but not my business.

However, if your claim refers to some sect's or some religion's doctrine then I can't comment except to advise you to say whether or not you are stating some orthodoxy and which orthodoxy you refer to.
Last edited by Belinda on Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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attofishpi
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by attofishpi »

Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:14 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:58 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:20 am DAM, as always, believes there is nothing but thinking makes it so, including selves. I agree with DAM insofar as, in a relative world, this is all we can know. However if we were omniscient we would know what selves are and what everything else is including values of good and evil. This is why omniscience is a key attribute of God.
I disagree Belinda. God is not omniscient (of the ENTIRE future).
But omniscience is absolute by definition. That's what the prefix omni means.

Your God may not be omniscient and that's your business but not my business.
I always feel somewhat deflated when someone states to me "your God".

Nonetheless. What persuades you that God knows ALL of the future?
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Sculptor
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Re: An Omniscient God

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Those omni characters that god has, all deny free will.

Simply for the fact that when "he" made you, he knew exactly how you were going to turn out. If he wanted to save you he could have made you different. If he wanted you to be dammed then he also could have made you different.

There is no escape from this observation. But I bet there are going to be some Christians here, who in denial of reason will try to fudge the issue.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:17 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:14 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:58 am

I disagree Belinda. God is not omniscient (of the ENTIRE future).
But omniscience is absolute by definition. That's what the prefix omni means.

Your God may not be omniscient and that's your business but not my business.
I always feel somewhat deflated when someone states to me "your God".

Nonetheless. What persuades you that God knows ALL of the future?
What do you mean by "god"?
What sort of a thing is it?
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attofishpi
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:55 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:17 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:14 am

But omniscience is absolute by definition. That's what the prefix omni means.

Your God may not be omniscient and that's your business but not my business.
I always feel somewhat deflated when someone states to me "your God".

Nonetheless. What persuades you that God knows ALL of the future?
What do you mean by "god"?
What sort of a thing is it?
Well. For me, all I need to define a 'God' is an entity capable of judging my actions within my life, and reincarnating me based on its decision - to which human family or beast, if I have been such a naughty boy.

Of course, that means this entity is capable of knowing ALL the circumstances of my existence, to make a fair judgement.

I don't need to believe a God created the universe etc etc etc.. I base my comprehension of this entity on my experience thus far, of this entity.

Therein is God for me.
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Sculptor
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:03 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:55 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:17 am

I always feel somewhat deflated when someone states to me "your God".

Nonetheless. What persuades you that God knows ALL of the future?
What do you mean by "god"?
What sort of a thing is it?
Well. For me, all I need to define a 'God' is an entity capable of judging my actions within my life, and reincarnating me based on its decision - to which human family or beast, if I have been such a naughty boy.

Of course, that means this entity is capable of knowing ALL the circumstances of my existence, to make a fair judgement.

I don't need to believe a God created the universe etc etc etc.. I base my comprehension of this entity on my experience thus far, of this entity.

Therein is God for me.
Therein, is "his!" location.
He's just your own conscience. He is you.
Most people do not use the term God for this, so you are on the wrong thread.
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attofishpi
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:08 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:03 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:55 am
What do you mean by "god"?
What sort of a thing is it?
Well. For me, all I need to define a 'God' is an entity capable of judging my actions within my life, and reincarnating me based on its decision - to which human family or beast, if I have been such a naughty boy.

Of course, that means this entity is capable of knowing ALL the circumstances of my existence, to make a fair judgement.

I don't need to believe a God created the universe etc etc etc.. I base my comprehension of this entity on my experience thus far, of this entity.

Therein is God for me.
Therein, is "his!" location.
He's just your own conscience. He is you.
Most people do not use the term God for this, so you are on the wrong thread.
You appear to be returning to arsehole mode Chaz, as so shall I if required.

Therein also includes a place - a place of ALL that we perceive as reality via our consciousness. This is a PLACE, that bears NO secrets from this God entity, sure call it a conscience, but it extends beyond my perception of myself and indeed, IS the backbone to ALL that we perceive as reality. PANTHEISM.

It truly is a bit of a laugh looking at the likes of 'freemasonry' etc, if only they actually knew...THERE ARE NO SECRETS.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:15 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:08 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:03 am

Well. For me, all I need to define a 'God' is an entity capable of judging my actions within my life, and reincarnating me based on its decision - to which human family or beast, if I have been such a naughty boy.

Of course, that means this entity is capable of knowing ALL the circumstances of my existence, to make a fair judgement.

I don't need to believe a God created the universe etc etc etc.. I base my comprehension of this entity on my experience thus far, of this entity.

Therein is God for me.
Therein, is "his!" location.
He's just your own conscience. He is you.
Most people do not use the term God for this, so you are on the wrong thread.
You appear to be returning to arsehole mode Chaz, as so shall I if required.
You know I am right.
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attofishpi
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:42 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:15 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:08 am

Therein, is "his!" location.
He's just your own conscience. He is you.
Most people do not use the term God for this, so you are on the wrong thread.
You appear to be returning to arsehole mode Chaz, as so shall I if required.
You know I am right.
...well, since you are getting more older and stubborn, and no longer half of you is left.
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Sculptor
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:49 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:42 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:15 am

You appear to be returning to arsehole mode Chaz, as so shall I if required.
You know I am right.
...well, since you are getting more older and stubborn, and no longer half of you is left.
What you consider "arsehole mode Chaz", is me just being honest with you.
Take it or leave it.
Everything you have said about "god" is perfectly consistent with part of yourself thinking you are your own god.
All psychiatrists would agree.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:48 pm
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:49 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:42 am

You know I am right.
...well, since you are getting more older and stubborn, and no longer half of you is left.
What you consider "arsehole mode Chaz", is me just being honest with you.
Take it or leave it.
Everything you have said about "god" is perfectly consistent with part of yourself thinking you are your own god.
All psychiatrists would agree.
..only to the same degree that you are your own reality. (I can explain the difference though, if you put your bias aside)

Psychiatrists. Well, fuck me if I did not have a larf with them, after I ripped off two insurance companies. I'd question them, and they didn't like that...to think I knew more about the forefront of their chosen career path, not one of them had even heard of David Chalmers FFS...among many many other things - physics etc..

Eat these pills!!!! LMFAO.
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Sculptor
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:57 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:48 pm
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:49 am

...well, since you are getting more older and stubborn, and no longer half of you is left.
What you consider "arsehole mode Chaz", is me just being honest with you.
Take it or leave it.
Everything you have said about "god" is perfectly consistent with part of yourself thinking you are your own god.
All psychiatrists would agree.
..only to the same degree that you are your own reality. (I can explain the difference though, if you put your bias aside)
You will never understand yourself unless you are least consider the possibility that you god is endogenous. SO put your own bias aside first.
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by attofishpi »

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Last edited by attofishpi on Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bobmax
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by bobmax »

Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:20 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:07 am " Therefore God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world,
predestinating us to the adoption of children, not because we were going to
be of ourselves holy and immaculate, but He chose and predestinated us that
we might be so. Moreover, He did this according to the good pleasure of His
will, so that nobody might glory concerning his own will, but about God's will
towards Himself.'' St. Augustine

Augustine's idea of God is deterministic as in 'God is all-powerful', and also optimistic as in 'God is all-good'.

DAM 's stance seems to be deterministic ("The Father"). However DAM is saying that the details of this ultimate reality , "the Father" , are for us to decide on. Therefore the quote from Augustine is not appropriate.

Both Augustine and DAM fail to account for natural evils such as pestilence, ignorance, and huge volcano eruption. Augustine is especially disappointing in his apparent ignorance of the Book of Job. In this Biblical story, the hero, Job, submits to natural evils that befall him ; however for mysterious reasons Job remains a believer.

DAM, as always, believes there is nothing but thinking makes it so, including selves. I agree with DAM insofar as, in a relative world, this is all we can know. However if we were omniscient we would know what selves are and what everything else is including values of good and evil. This is why omniscience is a key attribute of God.
In Augustine's sentence the last part is especially significant:
"Moreover, He did this according to the good pleasure of His will, so that nobody might glory concerning his own will, but about God's will towards Himself. ''

This concept is taken up by Christian mysticism.
For which every creature, as well as anything one does, is nothing.

Because the glory of being and of action is entirely to be attributed to God.
For the simple but difficult reason that there is only one will: God's will.

I think that predetermination must be understood metaphorically.
In the sense that God is certainly not subject to time, but originates time as well as all the rest.

If there is only God's will, there is also no determinism. There is no before and no after. The Cosmos is but a gift of Chaos.

There is therefore no need for God to be omniscient.
An attribute that, albeit paradoxically, would limit Him.

It is thought necessary because, mistakenly, it is assumed that God is an entity.
But to attribute anything to God is only superstition, indeed a blasphemy: do not take God's name in vain.

If not maybe, dare to believe in God = Good.
Belinda
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Re: An Omniscient God

Post by Belinda »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:17 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:14 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:58 am

I disagree Belinda. God is not omniscient (of the ENTIRE future).
But omniscience is absolute by definition. That's what the prefix omni means.

Your God may not be omniscient and that's your business but not my business.
I always feel somewhat deflated when someone states to me "your God".

Nonetheless. What persuades you that God knows ALL of the future?
I am surprised! I thought "your God" would have the opposite effect and you would like to be not one of the herd.

What persuades me that God knows all of the future? I have not defined what sort of God I was referring to. When I claimed God knows all of the future I meant the description of God that includes God and His word are inseparable.

The description of God that includes His existence depends on our human endeavours would also include that God does not know the future, God having given us Free Will.

BTW I don't believe in any personal God and my arguments about God are academic.
I do believe in an attribute of the personal God, omniscience, however omniscience is impossible in the temporal relative world.
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