The problem of evil

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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bahman
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by bahman »

DPMartin wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:37 pm
bahman wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 9:45 pm
DPMartin wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:04 pm

the rest of the story tells you if you read it.

God is not only the Creator but also the Judge therefore the Judge of what is good or evil for His creation and the creatures therein, no exceptions.
So God creates situation in which a person can commit evil so he can judge him? If yes, isn't God the origin of evil?
no, God gave Adam and Eve a Life that requires them to be faithful to God through God's Word. hence God's Word is His agreement or biblically speaking covenant.
Adam and Eve were imposed into that condition. They were created and then asked to follow the word of God.
DPMartin wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:04 pm
DPMartin wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:04 pm what happened in the garden is Eve made a judgment contrary to God's Judgement and Adam followed.
Eve was naive and was deceived. There was the problem of temptation too, the fruit looked tempting. She has to fight the temptation forever. We all know that it is impossible to ignore a temptation forever.
you're correct about the temptation in that in the flesh it will reacquire over and over, but note Eve didn't know exactly what God said, that she could have easily found out if she didn't know, of which the serpent test for, and, she didn't have to entertain what the serpent said. same today something may come to mind or someone bring an opportunity best left along, but you never have to entertain the thought.
She was naive. She was deceived. What you are saying about that she could ask is about a person who could doubt in that situation. She simply didn't doubt otherwise she wouldn't eat the fruit. That was not the end of the world.
DPMartin wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:04 pm
DPMartin wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:04 pm therefore man now goes by his own judgement of good and evil, but again man's judgement results in death, because God's Judgement is Life so any other judgement wouldn't not be life.


also there is the concept of morals here do to the commandment God spoke to Adam was a covenant, or a agreement. Adam can hang in the garden and live the life Adam received from God, as long as no eat from TOK. note there's no protest on Adam's part mentioned. Adam wasn't made in the garden, Adam was made, then put in the garden.

hence the agreement God made with Adam, and was merciful to let A&E to live the life in and of the flesh as animals do, and they lost the Life (for the record) Jesus, the Son of God, restored to the faithful.

so the reason why for all this is Adam was to be a son of God, possessing God's place in the earth, earth being God's footstool. and in that place they were to execute God's Judgements in the earth.

so the sin in this case is really separation from God's Presence, or the state of it, and that life A&E were left with you have received when you were born into the world, hence the term original sin.
Why we are kept in such a state? We don't keep people responsible for the fault of others.

that's a blind man's excuse. the life you received when you were born into the world you agreed to continue to live didn't you?
What you are talking about? I didn't make such an agreement when I was borned.
DPMartin wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:04 pm so you received the life you have been given via your biological parents. but as mentioned before Jesus restored the Life that A&E originally had to the faithful. and you can't say you don't live by your own judgement of what good and evil is. so you're just as guilty as A&E.
Which type of argument is this. Even if I don't judge good and evil by my way I am still in the cursed world.
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bahman
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by bahman »

henry quirk wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:05 pm
If God is all-wise and omniscient choosing to be indifferent then man also will choose to be indifferent when he is wise enough. That means no difference between good and evil whatsoever for wise people as well. Who cares, lets stupid people struggle until the end of time. What is the point of education then?
What you seem to ask is: if God is indifferent or doesn't care, then why should I?

Or mebbe what you're askin' is: if God won't take care of me, why should I?

Either way, the answer is the same: there's no reason at all, why you should care, why you should take care of yourself.

You're a free will: if you plomp yourself down and do nuthin', that's on you, that's your business.

Your life is yours to waste.

If you need God's (or any person's) attention or involvement or example to motivate you: you're in a real pickle.
What I am saying is that we feel responsible for those who are not wise or mature enough trying to guide them. We don't say that we don't care. They have free will so let them do what they want.
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bahman
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by bahman »

seeds wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 12:05 am
bahman wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:07 pm
seeds wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:45 pm
Here's my illustrated take on the so-called "problem of evil":

(Note: If the print is too small or too blurry to read, you can see it more clearly if you click on the following link where the images are located on my website - http://theultimateseeds.com/darknessofthewomb.htm)

ImageImageImage

The bottom line is that there is no such "thing" as Evil as if it were some sort of tangible substance that you can step in and can't get off your shoe, or is often personified in the form of a devil :twisted: or demons.

No, all evil is (or ever was) is the result of low human consciousness.
_______
That is at best a claim. What if I claim that good is the result of low human consciousness.
Then I would say that you are full of crap (even more than usual).

In my prior post, I suggested that these dunce-capped, bone-headed idiots...

Image

...function at an extremely low level of consciousness which results in a hatred of black people and the committing of heinous acts such as this...

Image

...and this...

Image

So, please show me what exactly is "good" about the low consciousness of racist white people?
bahman wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:07 pm The person who is all-wise has the right to be a good racist.
Apparently, bahman, you and I have a completely different interpretation of what being "all-wise" means.

Stop making ridiculous statements.
_______
You are equating ignorance with evil. Evil is permissible given the situation. Ignorance should be avoided at all costs.
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bahman
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by bahman »

jayjacobus wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:00 pm
bahman wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:14 pm
jayjacobus wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:08 pm

1) Evil comes from man's animal nature. In order to live man must respond to his physical needs. How he does that can be wicked.
And who did create man with animal nature?
jayjacobus wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:08 pm 2) The Garden of Eden was not a reward nor a punishment for Eve. Outside the Garden of Eden there is good fortune, plenty and ordeals. Good fortune, plenty and ordeals do not mean evil.
It seems to me that you have a good fortune in your life and have never been or seen people in miserable conditions.
jayjacobus wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:08 pm 3) We do not atone for the sins of Adam and Eve. We are only judged for our own sins.
We are. We are living on Earth that is cursed by God because of their sin.
We evolved from animals and have physical needs because of that.

I know that some people have a miserable condition.

The Earth cannot know anything so it would not know that it is cursed. If you think that it is cursed, that doesn't mean you are.

Do you think that we are inflicted with damage inflicted that is an incidental result of Eve's sin?
Are you asking that we are suffering because of Eve's sin? Yes.
popeye1945
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by popeye1945 »

Evil necessitates a god, what has passed for evil in the past amounts to crimes against humanity even where that humanity is one individual. It is time we ceased letting the less intellectually endowed lead the way.
jayjacobus
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by jayjacobus »

bahman wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:26 pm
jayjacobus wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:00 pm
bahman wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:14 pm
And who did create man with animal nature?


It seems to me that you have a good fortune in your life and have never been or seen people in miserable conditions.


We are. We are living on Earth that is cursed by God because of their sin.
We evolved from animals and have physical needs because of that.

I know that some people have a miserable condition.

The Earth cannot know anything so it would not know that it is cursed. If you think that it is cursed, that doesn't mean you are.

Do you think that we are inflicted with damage inflicted that is an incidental result of Eve's sin?
Are you asking that we are suffering because of Eve's sin? Yes.
If a premise is true, then the conclusion is true.

Your premises are Eve's existance and Eve's sin.

Neither have been proven. They are your assumptions.
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bahman
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by bahman »

jayjacobus wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:35 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:26 pm
jayjacobus wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:00 pm

We evolved from animals and have physical needs because of that.

I know that some people have a miserable condition.

The Earth cannot know anything so it would not know that it is cursed. If you think that it is cursed, that doesn't mean you are.

Do you think that we are inflicted with damage inflicted that is an incidental result of Eve's sin?
Are you asking that we are suffering because of Eve's sin? Yes.
If a premise is true, then the conclusion is true.

Your premises are Eve's existance and Eve's sin.

Neither have been proven. They are your assumptions.
Oh, come on. I am arguing against the Christian system of belief.
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bahman
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by bahman »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:14 pm Evil necessitates a god, what has passed for evil in the past amounts to crimes against humanity even where that humanity is one individual. It is time we ceased letting the less intellectually endowed lead the way.
Evil is one aspect of reality.
popeye1945
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by popeye1945 »

bahman wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:53 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:14 pm Evil necessitates a god, what has passed for evil in the past amounts to crimes against humanity even where that humanity is one individual. It is time we ceased letting the less intellectually endowed lead the way.
Evil is one aspect of reality.
bahman,
Evil is one aspect of reality, only if it is understood as a person intentionally making life more unbearable than it would otherwise naturally be for another creature. That which is life negating is bad/evil that which is life supporting is good/virtue.
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bahman
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by bahman »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:01 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:53 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:14 pm Evil necessitates a god, what has passed for evil in the past amounts to crimes against humanity even where that humanity is one individual. It is time we ceased letting the less intellectually endowed lead the way.
Evil is one aspect of reality.
bahman,
Evil is one aspect of reality, only if it is understood as a person intentionally making life more unbearable than it would otherwise naturally be for another creature. That which is life negating is bad/evil that which is life supporting is good/virtue.
How do you define good and evil? To me is simply like and dislike.
Walker
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by Walker »

Can evil thoughts be a problem?

A recent news story says that "Minority Report" intent and restrictions are being considered by our betters.
popeye1945
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by popeye1945 »

bahman.
We are in agreement.
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bahman
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by bahman »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:27 pm bahman.
We are in agreement.
So the dislike is unavoidable in reality. You can not like when you lose a match. Losing is unavoidable though.
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bahman
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by bahman »

Walker wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:17 pm Can evil thoughts be a problem?

A recent news story says that "Minority Report" intent and restrictions are being considered by our betters.
You cannot avoid evil thoughts. Evil sometimes is necessary.
jayjacobus
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Re: The problem of evil

Post by jayjacobus »

bahman wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:52 pm
jayjacobus wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:35 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:26 pm
Are you asking that we are suffering because of Eve's sin? Yes.
If a premise is true, then the conclusion is true.

Your premises are Eve's existance and Eve's sin.

Neither have been proven. They are your assumptions.
Oh, come on. I am arguing against the Christian system of belief.
Ok. You were being disingenuous.
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