To Immanuel Can

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Immanuel Can »

bahman wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:50 pm Why we couldn't get married by God in Paradise?
That's not the nature of the relationship the Bible describes.

You can read the verse I sent you: you know what it says. So I'm not sure what the question is...
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Dontaskme
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Re: To Immanuel Can

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Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:55 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:50 pm Why we couldn't get married by God in Paradise?
That's not the nature of the relationship the Bible describes.

You can read the verse I sent you: you know what it says. So I'm not sure what the question is...
Thank you for not answering.

Maybe the Bible can answer. Oh that's right, books cannot talk.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 10:53 pm The Bible says that's what it is. It also says you really don't want to go there.
The bible contains dead letters. It cannot discern the thoughts and intents of it's readers.
bahman wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 11:05 pm Oh, Bible. Why do you believe Bible and what is written within?
The bible contains dead letters. It cannot discern the thoughts and intents of it's readers.

The only thing that's real and living is you in the here and now. Right here, right now.

What's wrong with right now-unless you think about it?
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bahman
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Re: To Immanuel Can

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Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:55 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:50 pm Why we couldn't get married by God in Paradise?
That's not the nature of the relationship the Bible describes.

You can read the verse I sent you: you know what it says. So I'm not sure what the question is...
I am asking why we could not be with God in Paradise.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

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bahman wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:08 pm
I am asking why we could not be with God in Paradise.
Yeah, that's what I'd like to know as well..why does he get to hang out in heaven, while we have to live in this stinky smelly rotting sin bin.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Immanuel Can »

bahman wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:08 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:55 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:50 pm Why we couldn't get married by God in Paradise?
That's not the nature of the relationship the Bible describes.

You can read the verse I sent you: you know what it says. So I'm not sure what the question is...
I am asking why we could not be with God in Paradise.
Nobody said you cannot. In fact, the Bible says you can, if you choose to be.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

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Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 10:56 pm
Nobody said you cannot. In fact, the Bible says you can, if you choose to be.
NO..correction...the Bible did not say that at all...the man Jesus said it, aka your own self.

We already know in the here and now what choice means, we do not need to keep strolling through some his story book to know what we already know right now.

Wait, hang on...I'm just going to check back through my big book of records.. because I think I have forgotten how to breathe... yes, that's a good idea, the good old trusty book will remind me what I need to do to start breathing again..thank god I've written it down somewhere.

Thanks for not reading, or answering, or loving your other self...
..oh shut up and forgive them father they know what they do...but it's ok I have it all written down, I'm so clever to think of that. I'm just the best heavenly father that ever lived, and I'm passing it on to my son now, because I have to go away and DIE

FFS :twisted:
Walker
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Walker »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:53 am
Wait, hang on...I'm just going to check back through my big book of records.. because I think I have forgotten how to breathe... yes, that's a good idea, the good old trusty book will remind me what I need to do to start breathing again..thank god I've written it down somewhere.
People do remind each other to breathe. Medical people sometimes remind patients to breathe, or tell them how to breathe, 'specially if the patient is befuddled.

Conditions can be such that people forget to breathe. High anxiety can cause one to forget to breathe, and then one passes out.

This tendency is probably some kind of physical attempt to suspend the moment, or prolong the moment until the inevitable.
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Dontaskme
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Dontaskme »

Walker wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:39 am
Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:53 am
Wait, hang on...I'm just going to check back through my big book of records.. because I think I have forgotten how to breathe... yes, that's a good idea, the good old trusty book will remind me what I need to do to start breathing again..thank god I've written it down somewhere.
People do remind each other to breathe. Medical people sometimes remind patients to breathe, or tell them how to breathe, 'specially if the patient is befuddled.

Conditions can be such that people forget to breathe. High anxiety can cause one to forget to breathe, and then one passes out.

This tendency is probably some kind of physical attempt to suspend the moment, or prolong the moment until the inevitable.
Ordinarily within a normal functioning body, breathing is automatic..new born babies automatically know how to breathe.
It's was meant as a metaphor for 'automatic', in sofar as life is living itself...and that all life forms are being lived...and not the other way around.

The living sentient organism, does not come with an instruction sheet..like a flat-pack piece of furniture does... Instruction manuel's are always recordings of something that can only be experienced in the here and now of realtime...and then repeated when necessary to fix a malfuction...any knowledge to know something is alway available NOW..else where else does it come from..it's always now.

If for example a baby is not breathing at birth...the person who delivered the baby will already know what to do in case it needs to resuscitate the malfuctioning of the babies breathing mechanism. The doctors actions will be immediate...it's not like..oh wait, just one second please while I consult my notes, now where is that vital piece of information I need, hhh, I seem to have lost the page, I know it's written somewhere.... oh dear, too late, baby has passed away, never mind...see, It doesn't work like that does it.

Unicellular living organisms display learning, memory, anticipation, risk management, and other aspects of cognitive behavior. Therefore, strong evidence from cellular biology is forcing the biologists to accept that even the smallest cells are sentient beings. Every sentient living organism is being lived.

And yes, malfuctions of living organisms sometimes require the assistance of medical attention by medically trained pratitioners who have learnt how to reverse malfunctions of the body in realtime. They have had to learn their skills on real live living patients...because in the assisting of body dummies there is no worry about making mistakes, since dummies DO NOT live or die..only real dummies live and die...got it?

So I fail to see what your stupid ramblings have anything to do with a fricken ancient his story book..but whatever...

No one is writing the story book of life...it's writing itself as it goes along in realtime the only time that exists.

But at least you still talk to me Walker, that's very humbling of you, and appreciated, not like some of the other ignorant twats on here.
Walker
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Walker »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 10:27 am
Walker wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:39 am
Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:53 am
Wait, hang on...I'm just going to check back through my big book of records.. because I think I have forgotten how to breathe... yes, that's a good idea, the good old trusty book will remind me what I need to do to start breathing again..thank god I've written it down somewhere.
People do remind each other to breathe. Medical people sometimes remind patients to breathe, or tell them how to breathe, 'specially if the patient is befuddled.

Conditions can be such that people forget to breathe. High anxiety can cause one to forget to breathe, and then one passes out.

This tendency is probably some kind of physical attempt to suspend the moment, or prolong the moment until the inevitable.
Ordinarily within a normal functioning body, breathing is automatic..new born babies automatically know how to breathe.
It's was meant as a metaphor for 'automatic', in sofar as life is living itself...and that all life forms are being lived...and not the other way around.
I know. The exception doesn't make the rule, but it can help to reveal or illustrate a principle.
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Dontaskme
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Dontaskme »

Walker wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 10:37 am I know. The exception doesn't make the rule, but it can help to reveal or illustrate a principle.
Yes, illustrations are always empty principles...not like a story book is ever real...but can appear real because it's content is sourced within your own imagination...as the the story is always inseparable from the book..
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by bahman »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 10:56 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:08 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:55 pm
That's not the nature of the relationship the Bible describes.

You can read the verse I sent you: you know what it says. So I'm not sure what the question is...
I am asking why we could not be with God in Paradise.
Nobody said you cannot. In fact, the Bible says you can, if you choose to be.
Ok, why we couldn't be with God in Heaven in the first place so we wouldn't have to deal with all our struggles.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Immanuel Can »

bahman wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:24 pm Ok, why we couldn't be with God in Heaven in the first place so we wouldn't have to deal with all our struggles.
Did you miss my earlier explanations?

Free will requires that we face, at least one time, an alternate possibility.

We don't necessarily have to choose that possibility, if we freely decide not to; but if we do choose it, it comes with consequences. But free will is possible by no other means.

So free will is a product of our experience with the possibility of the Fall. And unfortunately for us, we took the wrong option. Nevertheless, God has stepped in to reverse that, if we will use our free will to agree that He should, on our behalf. But He will not rob us of our free will, either way.

Is that clear? What am I not making clear to you in that explanation?
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by bahman »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:42 pm
bahman wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:24 pm Ok, why we couldn't be with God in Heaven in the first place so we wouldn't have to deal with all our struggles.
Did you miss my earlier explanations?

Free will requires that we face, at least one time, an alternate possibility.

We don't necessarily have to choose that possibility, if we freely decide not to; but if we do choose it, it comes with consequences. But free will is possible by no other means.

So free will is a product of our experience with the possibility of the Fall. And unfortunately for us, we took the wrong option. Nevertheless, God has stepped in to reverse that, if we will use our free will to agree that He should, on our behalf. But He will not rob us of our free will, either way.

Is that clear? What am I not making clear to you in that explanation?
Think of a scenario like this: God creates Adam and Eve and give them a vision of Heaven and Hell and let them choose. You said that no rational person chooses Hell. So we would be happy with God in Heaven. No need for all this suffering. What is wrong with this scenario?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Immanuel Can »

bahman wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 4:00 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:42 pm
bahman wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:24 pm Ok, why we couldn't be with God in Heaven in the first place so we wouldn't have to deal with all our struggles.
Did you miss my earlier explanations?

Free will requires that we face, at least one time, an alternate possibility.

We don't necessarily have to choose that possibility, if we freely decide not to; but if we do choose it, it comes with consequences. But free will is possible by no other means.

So free will is a product of our experience with the possibility of the Fall. And unfortunately for us, we took the wrong option. Nevertheless, God has stepped in to reverse that, if we will use our free will to agree that He should, on our behalf. But He will not rob us of our free will, either way.

Is that clear? What am I not making clear to you in that explanation?
Think of a scenario like this: God creates Adam and Eve and give them a vision of Heaven and Hell and let them choose.
Okay, let's imagine that.
You said that no rational person chooses Hell.
I didn't, actually. I said no such thing. I certainly don't believe it.

In fact, I believe that people often reason their way to Hell. They reason thusly: there is no God, no objective morality, and no ultimate truth; therefore, I can carry on my life as I see fit, so long as I can get away with anything.

If the first premise ("there is no God") is true, then the rest follows with perfect rational consistency, in fact.

Good thing the first premise is false.

But there's a deeper problem with your imaginary scenario, too. That is, that God doesn't merely care who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. If that's all that mattered, He could plausibly do what you say. But it's not.

What God cares about is your freedom to enter into a relationship of friendship love with Him....uncoerced. So that means there has to be a period of time when not only do you have the choices of Heaven or Hell, but when these two choices also seem possible and reasonable.

That's why it would be nonsense for me to say I have a "free choice" to beat myself into unconsciousness with a hammer. The fact is, I'm never going to choose that anyway, so it's just not a live option. There really isn't a choice to be made, anymore; and my will is not even called for. Being beaten into unconsciousness with a hammer, by my own hand, is not in any way attractive to me -- it isn't a thing I'd entertain for a second. The alternative is so much more pleasant, I'm certain to choose it before the (phony) choice is even offered.

So this world has the following: enough reasons in it to believe in God, and enough excuses to avoid doing so. It has some attractions offered by the thought of loving God, but just as many offered by the prospect of loving only myself. I hover between two choices, then, that at first glance (though only then) look equal. And I get to choose.

If I care enough to think deeply about it, my choice of God is going to become increasingly obvious, it's true. Who would refuse Heaven, supposing one could see it now. But if I refuse to think about it, I can pacify my anxieties and preen myself indefinitely with ideas like, "I am the captain of my fate / I am the master of my soul." And that will keep me sufficiently self-pleased to avoid any thought of God or Heaven. I can will myself right into Hell, if I want.

In fact, that latter option, the option of worshipping myself and giving no thought to God, is so attractive to the human psyche that the majority of people do it. Jesus said that would be so. He said, “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Matt. 7:13-14).

So there are more than enough reasons to believe, and enough reasons to disbelieve, as well. The difference between the two is the depth and sincerity of the search with which one looks for God. For as He promises, "...you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart." (Jer. 29:13)
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