To Immanuel Can

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:51 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:58 pm IF God exists
Why the doubt, when you are already here to be able to say the word IF
I really can't be bothered explaining to you what a "hypothetical case" is. But you can look it up.

Doubt is not the issue. Grace to the opposition's viewpoint, when explaining a view, is. But I'm pretty sure you could have figured that out yourself, so I can't be bothered further.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 2:23 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:51 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:58 pm IF God exists
Why the doubt, when you are already here to be able to say the word IF
I really can't be bothered explaining to you what a "hypothetical case" is. But you can look it up.

Doubt is not the issue. Grace to the opposition's viewpoint, when explaining a view, is. But I'm pretty sure you could have figured that out yourself, so I can't be bothered further.
Im man..as much as I would love to be a mind reader, I have absolutely no idea what hypothetical oppositional case you are talking about..(opposition) what the heck is that? ..do you oppose something? :roll: :?

I've said this to you before, and I'll say it again. sometimes, it's like trying to read the Japanese language trying to figure out what you are saying half the time...why can't you just speak normally and simply?

IF is not the issue. There's no if or buts about Life...Life is without doubt or error. It's blindingly self evident. When you bleed, you know others bleed. When you hurt you know others hurt. When you cause evil harm to others, you know they will suffer and be hurting, because when someone does the same to you, you really wouldn't like it. That's how we know to be good and not to be bad, it's already written in our dna before we are even born to be aware of the experience.


No one need worship life. Why would it. Life doesn't tell itself to look in the mirror and adore it's own reflection. Life already knows it's a looker...it does not seek constant confirmation that it's a LOOKER by having to keep reminding itself to look in the mirror...Life already knows it is a Looker.

This is not too difficult to understand, that to stay safe and harmless is to be wise and content with life. My god even animals know the rule of cause and it's consequential effects...no man or animal needs a dam bible to know that bad is bad and good is good.


You are the awareness - you are the experience - of all sensation. It's all you. So what's this case you are on, what's to oppose here?

I do find you a very confusing person to talk to. But I do try, that's all I can do.


And thanks for deciding not to ignore me again. Appreciated. I am not in opposition with you IC. We all bleed the same red blood, we all breathe the same air. It's just that sometimes I enjoy taking the piss out of my own distorted image, there are many different ways to pull a face, and each will tell it's own unique story, some will be bad and some will be good, the good will be attractive, and the bad will be repellent..this is so obvious.

Every one you meet, every one you look in the eye...that is your mirror of yourself...if there was no mirror you would not exist. That is what Non-duality is...life is a two way mirror, the looker and looked upon are the same One YOU...do you have an argument with yourself? No of course you don't.


Sorry this takes so long to explain.
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bahman
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by bahman »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:58 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:36 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:18 pm
I'm not seeing it.

How would worshipping the Supreme Being constitute a lack of "self-respect" for a contingent, created, limited one?
Assuming that I am contingent, created, and limited, I have self-respect, so I don't think that I am higher or lower than anything. Could you tell me on what principle God is higher than us?
Well, we don’t have to “assume” those conditions. IF God exists, He’s certain to be higher. He’s going to be a necessary Being, though we are going to be contingent; He is going to be the Creator, and we the created; He is going to be unlimited, but we are going to be limited. That’s all just definitional, so we can take that for granted…if God exists.

We might add other things, as well. The Supreme God is bound to be perfect in ways we are not, better in moral categories than we are, sovereign in power, and so on. But we should pause, because I want to give you opportunity to respond as you see fit.
What do you mean with higher?
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:18 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:18 pm I wonder if you have a sense of what the word "worship" means...could it be that you're not sure?
How do you define it?
I realize that the word has come to have, in many ordinary minds, some kind of connotation of grovelling or obsequiousness, or unnecessary self-abasement. If you were thinking of that kind of thing, I might understand why you would not like the word.

However, the Biblical definition is “to know (and act upon) the actual “worth” of a subject.” You might call it “worth-ship.” It just means knowing who God is, relative to who you are, and acting accordingly.
What is the worth of God? In the end, He is a being.
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:18 pm
Is worshiping is necessary because of the fact that God higher than us?
It’s necessary because it reflects an understanding of the truths I’ve listed above. The alternative is to not-know-the-worth of things…hardly a good alternative.
And what do you have to do?
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:18 pm
Why God does not humble Himself? That is a great virtue!
Well, there’s no intrinsic reason He should, of course. It’s a virtue to be humble only to the point of truth…if one is humble to the point of lying about oneself, one has gone beyond virtue and into a new kind of vice. What we should expect is that God should know and tell the truth about Himself…and being the greatest Being in the universe, that’s not less than He can say, while being honest.

However, the Christian narrative says that God has humbled Himself. He has come down to man in human form…not because God doesn’t know what He’s worth, but because mankind couldn’t relate to Him without an embodied person to know, and man’s desperate situation could not be dealt with except by somebody who partook of all that man undergoes. So the message is that God has humbled Himself for the good of mankind…and the question comes back, will man humble himself and estimate himself rightly, for the sake of receiving what God has done for him?
But Jesus is not the highest. He mentioned that Father is the highest.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

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Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:23 pm And thanks for deciding not to ignore me again. Appreciated.
I am not against you. I just no longer have anything I can achieve by discussing things with you, because you're committed to your ideology and aren't moving.

That's not an insult -- maybe you're happy with it, and it's your choice. And it can be. But there's not a lot I can do with that. So there's no point in responding to your messages, because we're not 'going anywhere' companionably, in terms of discussion. It's mostly adversarial, from your side. And you don't seem to want to negotiate that, so you're happy as you are.

But I have no bad feeling or hostility about that; I'm just accepting your decision.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Immanuel Can »

bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:45 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:58 pm
bahman wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:36 pm
Assuming that I am contingent, created, and limited, I have self-respect, so I don't think that I am higher or lower than anything. Could you tell me on what principle God is higher than us?
Well, we don’t have to “assume” those conditions. IF God exists, He’s certain to be higher. He’s going to be a necessary Being, though we are going to be contingent; He is going to be the Creator, and we the created; He is going to be unlimited, but we are going to be limited. That’s all just definitional, so we can take that for granted…if God exists.

We might add other things, as well. The Supreme God is bound to be perfect in ways we are not, better in moral categories than we are, sovereign in power, and so on. But we should pause, because I want to give you opportunity to respond as you see fit.
What do you mean with higher?
We don't have to narrow that: it's all true. God preexists us, is wiser than us, is morally greater than us, has greater abilities than we have...take your pick of the (good) dimension, and you can apply the word "higher" to it, because that's what "Supreme Being" implies.
What is the worth of God?

Ultimate. Can anything be said to be "worth more" than God?
And what do you have to do?
"What do you have to do to worship," you mean?

You have to give God His rightful place in your thinking. That's what worship is, in its simplest form.
But Jesus is not the highest. He mentioned that Father is the highest.
Ah, the subordination in the Trinity! An interesting and challenging theological topic.

We can come to that, and inevitably, we will. For now, though, let's track on worship a bit longer. I'm still not quite clear on what offends you in the idea of worship. I don't want to miss that point. Can you say?
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Re: To Immanuel Can

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Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:13 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:23 pm And thanks for deciding not to ignore me again. Appreciated.
I am not against you. I just no longer have anything I can achieve by discussing things with you, because you're committed to your ideology and aren't moving.

That's not an insult -- maybe you're happy with it, and it's your choice. And it can be. But there's not a lot I can do with that. So there's no point in responding to your messages, because we're not 'going anywhere' companionably, in terms of discussion. It's mostly adversarial, from your side. And you don't seem to want to negotiate that, so you're happy as you are.

But I have no bad feeling or hostility about that; I'm just accepting your decision.
Ok that's fair enough, fine by me, and fine by you. It seems to me that you want to play the role of teacher, so fill your boots if that's the role you want to play. I'm just having fun here playing with myself.

Good luck on your continuing journey to NOWHERE. :D

I mean we could go beyond NOWHERE any time we like...all we have to do is imagine all sorts of other places, without ever moving an inch. :D
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Re: To Immanuel Can

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Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:21 pm It seems to me that you want to play the role of teacher, so fill your boots if that's the role you want to play. I'm just having fun here playing with myself.

Good luck on your continuing journey to NOWHERE. :D
Actually, I would guess the journey to nowhere is not the road a "teacher" would be on. It's the person who had nothing to "teach" who would travel that road.

But no, I don't crave the role of a teacher. I just want to have a challenging conversation with an interesting interlocutor, one that uses logic, reasons and evidence to enable two people to make progress on the roads they are choosing.

That seems not to much to ask out of a conversation. And in aid of that goal, it's counterproductive to spend hours on "conversations" that lack such qualities.

No hard feelings. But I can't join you on the road of "playing" that you are choosing. It doesn't offer me anything I'm interested in.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:25 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:21 pm It seems to me that you want to play the role of teacher, so fill your boots if that's the role you want to play. I'm just having fun here playing with myself.

Good luck on your continuing journey to NOWHERE. :D
Actually, I would guess the journey to nowhere is not the road a "teacher" would be on. It's the person who had nothing to "teach" who would travel that road.

But no, I don't crave the role of a teacher. I just want to have a challenging conversation with an interesting interlocutor, one that uses logic, reasons and evidence to enable two people to make progress on the roads they are choosing.

That seems not to much to ask out of a conversation. And in aid of that goal, it's counterproductive to spend hours on "conversations" that lack such qualities.

No hard feelings. But I can't join you on the road of "playing" that you are choosing. It doesn't offer me anything I'm interested in.
I understand I have nothing to offer you. But I have a lot to offer you, in the form of teaching you to teach proper truth and not lies.

On that note, we'll always be on different roads IC

The immediate direct experience of Life teaches Adults.

Adults teach children, not Adults. I'm grown up now, I do not need a teacher or a psychologist to tell me what I already know.

If you are going to teach God..then teach it properly, that's my job to teach you to teach the truth and not the lie.

Quality not quantity ...is more important.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by bahman »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:18 pm
bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 3:45 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:58 pm
Well, we don’t have to “assume” those conditions. IF God exists, He’s certain to be higher. He’s going to be a necessary Being, though we are going to be contingent; He is going to be the Creator, and we the created; He is going to be unlimited, but we are going to be limited. That’s all just definitional, so we can take that for granted…if God exists.

We might add other things, as well. The Supreme God is bound to be perfect in ways we are not, better in moral categories than we are, sovereign in power, and so on. But we should pause, because I want to give you opportunity to respond as you see fit.
What do you mean with higher?
We don't have to narrow that: it's all true. God preexists us, is wiser than us, is morally greater than us, has greater abilities than we have...take your pick of the (good) dimension, and you can apply the word "higher" to it, because that's what "Supreme Being" implies.
You are free to believe in your God. But I have problems with some of these, for example, God preexists us, or wiser than us (what wisdom even mean to you?) etc.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:18 pm
What is the worth of God?

Ultimate. Can anything be said to be "worth more" than God?
Myself. Anybody else. We are equal.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:18 pm
And what do you have to do?
"What do you have to do to worship," you mean?

You have to give God His rightful place in your thinking. That's what worship is, in its simplest form.
If there is a God and He can prove to me that He is God then I consider Him equal to myself.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:18 pm
But Jesus is not the highest. He mentioned that Father is the highest.
Ah, the subordination in the Trinity! An interesting and challenging theological topic.

We can come to that, and inevitably, we will. For now, though, let's track on worship a bit longer. I'm still not quite clear on what offends you in the idea of worship. I don't want to miss that point. Can you say?
I have a problem considering anything higher than myself.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

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bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:25 pm I have problems with some of these, for example, God preexists us,
It's not possible to "have a problem" with that one. Your parents preexisted you, and they're mere humans. Your grandparents preexisted them. That's all "preexist" implies.

If God exists, he preexists us all...that's in the very definition of what it means to be God, actually.
or wiser than us
Again, I can't see how anybody could have a problem with that, if they've already considered it possible that God exists.

Of course the Supreme Being would be wiser that his mere creatures would be.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:18 pm
What is the worth of God?

Ultimate. Can anything be said to be "worth more" than God?
Myself. Anybody else. We are equal.
I find that an interesting and implausible claim.

What makes me the "equal" of you, or you of me? What makes everybody and anybody the "equal" of everybody else? Are tall people "equal" to short people? Are smart people "equal" to the mentally challenged? Are good people "equal" to wicked ones? Are people "equal" in artistic and musical talent? In age? In athleticism? In looks? In achievement?

In fact, is there any metric at all in which we have reason to think people are "equal"? :shock:

It certainly doesn't seem obvious that anybody's ever "equal" with everybody else. So you'd have to explain what sense you mean when you use the word "equal" to describe them: what dimension of them makes them "equal"?

And to be the "equal" of God...well, that's not even possible. So something needs to be explained there.
I have a problem considering anything higher than myself.
Well, that's a strange thing to think. I certainly know there are things higher than me...I can't imagine why you think it's a problematic idea. It just seems perfectly obvious.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by bahman »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:25 pm I have problems with some of these, for example, God preexists us,
It's not possible to "have a problem" with that one. Your parents preexisted you, and they're mere humans. Your grandparents preexisted them. That's all "preexist" implies.

If God exists, he preexists us all...that's in the very definition of what it means to be God, actually.
I have my own view of reality. Minds have existed since the beginning of time. The mind cannot be created or destroyed. I have an argument for that.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
or wiser than us
Again, I can't see how anybody could have a problem with that, if they've already considered it possible that God exists.

Of course the Supreme Being would be wiser that his mere creatures would be.
What do you mean with wise?
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:18 pm
Ultimate. Can anything be said to be "worth more" than God?
Myself. Anybody else. We are equal.
I find that an interesting and implausible claim.

What makes me the "equal" of you, or you of me? What makes everybody and anybody the "equal" of everybody else? Are tall people "equal" to short people? Are smart people "equal" to the mentally challenged? Are good people "equal" to wicked ones? Are people "equal" in artistic and musical talent? In age? In athleticism? In looks? In achievement?

In fact, is there any metric at all in which we have reason to think people are "equal"? :shock:

It certainly doesn't seem obvious that anybody's ever "equal" with everybody else. So you'd have to explain what sense you mean when you use the word "equal" to describe them: what dimension of them makes them "equal"?

And to be the "equal" of God...well, that's not even possible. So something needs to be explained there.
Of course, we are different. By equal I mean we have the same value in the eyes of Divine Justice.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
I have a problem considering anything higher than myself.
Well, that's a strange thing to think. I certainly know there are things higher than me...I can't imagine why you think it's a problematic idea. It just seems perfectly obvious.
We are equal.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm

If God exists, he preexists us all...that's in the very definition of what it means to be God, actually.
Yes, and that's exactly what Non-duality teaches. Which you reject. :shock:

Lets just tell the real truth... I endeavour to correct falsehoods. ( Before ''Name'' I Am ) equals 'prexistence'

To proclaim the notion of a 'prexistence' is to know you are - before - you know you are - which is nonsense.

Knowing is always immediate without foresight. You are this immediate knowing (one without a second)

That's in the very definition of what it means to be God, actually.

Now, think backwards until you reach this notion of 'prexistence' ....what do you find? you find the (unwritten thoughtless)....the Infinte Blank Canvas on which all (our) stories are painted....It's Elementary my dear Watson' that's God.

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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pmWell, that's a strange thing to think. I certainly know there are things higher than me...I can't imagine why you think it's a problematic idea. It just seems perfectly obvious.
You really do struggle with the truth don't you?


Just for clarity's sake....To proclaim you know there are things higher than you, is you.

Have you ever been anything other than you. Have you ever met this ''higher thing'' in realtime physical actuality? or is this 'higher thing' just right here right now in the form of you.

What if, there was nothing higher than human sentient awareness? ...how would you ever know? Truth is, you cannot, because you can never get beyond an imaginary horizon.

Keep fooling yourself IC...I'll always be here to trip switch your trip. Now don't be getting ahead of yourself, where ego I go.


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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by Immanuel Can »

bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:04 pm Minds have existed since the beginning of time. The mind cannot be created or destroyed. I have an argument for that.
Minds? Plural? :shock:

That's interesting. I've seen views that claim an ultimate cosmic "Mind" to have existed eternally...but I'm unaware of an argument for "minds" that has any currency.

Go ahead. I'm interested in that argument.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
or wiser than us
Again, I can't see how anybody could have a problem with that, if they've already considered it possible that God exists.

Of course the Supreme Being would be wiser that his mere creatures would be.
What do you mean with wise?
You could take it in its various senses, and all would be true. You could take it to indicate "knows more facts," or you could say it means "knows more about what is true," or you could use it in the sense of "has better moral judgment," or even "understands better what practically works." There's reallly no sense in which it doesn't work.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
Myself. Anybody else. We are equal.
I find that an interesting and implausible claim.

What makes me the "equal" of you, or you of me? What makes everybody and anybody the "equal" of everybody else? Are tall people "equal" to short people? Are smart people "equal" to the mentally challenged? Are good people "equal" to wicked ones? Are people "equal" in artistic and musical talent? In age? In athleticism? In looks? In achievement?

In fact, is there any metric at all in which we have reason to think people are "equal"? :shock:

It certainly doesn't seem obvious that anybody's ever "equal" with everybody else. So you'd have to explain what sense you mean when you use the word "equal" to describe them: what dimension of them makes them "equal"?

And to be the "equal" of God...well, that's not even possible. So something needs to be explained there.
Of course, we are different. By equal I mean we have the same value in the eyes of Divine Justice.
"Divine Justice"? :shock:

I didn't think you believe in God, so you can't mean God. What is this "Divine Justice" of which you speak?

And I must also ask, because I'm genuinely curious to know, what told you, or how did you find out, that this DJ regards everybody as "equal"?

I'm not seeing how that can be true, because "justice," assuming there's such a thing, means that everybody gets what they deserve...which is always different things, and thus is not at all equal.

Help me out here, if you can.

Oh, and one more question, if I may...if there is DJ, then suffering is explained. For it would mean that matters that remain unsettled here would be remedied later, by DJ. So I don't understand how somebody who believes there's ultimate justice can also complain about apparent unfairnesses in the present -- it would seem he's answered his own question, saying that there's DJ eventually.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
I have a problem considering anything higher than myself.
Well, that's a strange thing to think. I certainly know there are things higher than me...I can't imagine why you think it's a problematic idea. It just seems perfectly obvious.
We are equal.
I'm still not seeing how that's even possible to think. I know it's a kind of pop meme that "everybody's equal", but when we get to looking at the particulars of what it would entail, I can see no way of making sense of that claim...at least, so far.

But you may help me.
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Re: To Immanuel Can

Post by bahman »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:08 pm
bahman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:04 pm Minds have existed since the beginning of time. The mind cannot be created or destroyed. I have an argument for that.
Minds? Plural? :shock:

That's interesting. I've seen views that claim an ultimate cosmic "Mind" to have existed eternally...but I'm unaware of an argument for "minds" that has any currency.

Go ahead. I'm interested in that argument.
I have to show many things by order:

1) There is a conscious mind when there is motion (I have two arguments for that and there is an argument from Aquinas that I have never understood (argument from contingency))
2) Mind cannot be created or destroyed (I have two arguments for that)
3) There is a beginning for time (I think you agree with this)
4) There are at least two minds

I try to keep it short and easy so I discuss the arguments that are easier to grasp.

Proof of (1): Consider a change in an object, A to B, where A is the object in the initial state and B is the object in the final state (two states are extremely close to each other). To be B the object must not be A. But there is nothing when there is no A and nothing cannot cause B. Therefore, the object is contingent. The regress is not acceptable so there must be one mind that experiences A and causes B.

Proof of (2): We have to show two things: Mind exists and mind is time-independent. We showed that there is a mind when there is a motion. But mind itself cannot change since otherwise, we are dealing with the regress. Therefore, mind is changless. Time however passes. Therefore, mind is time-independent. This proves that mind cannot be destroyed because it exists and it is time-independent. Now we have to prove that mind cannot be created either. To show this we assume that mind can be created. There is a process from the moment of creation of time to an arbitrary time. Now we watch the process backward. We observe that a mind that exists is destroyed. This is a process too. So mind can be destroyed. But we showed that mind cannot be destroyed. Therefore, the assumption, mind can be created, is wrong.

Proof of (3): We agree.

Proof of (4): We accepted that there is a conscious mind needed for any motion. There are motions that are due to you. There are motions that are not due to you, therefore there is at least another conscious mind. Therefore, there are at least two minds.
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:08 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
Again, I can't see how anybody could have a problem with that, if they've already considered it possible that God exists.

Of course the Supreme Being would be wiser that his mere creatures would be.
What do you mean with wise?
You could take it in its various senses, and all would be true. You could take it to indicate "knows more facts," or you could say it means "knows more about what is true," or you could use it in the sense of "has better moral judgment," or even "understands better what practically works." There's reallly no sense in which it doesn't work.
That I call logical thinking but we can call it wisdom if you wish.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
I find that an interesting and implausible claim.

What makes me the "equal" of you, or you of me? What makes everybody and anybody the "equal" of everybody else? Are tall people "equal" to short people? Are smart people "equal" to the mentally challenged? Are good people "equal" to wicked ones? Are people "equal" in artistic and musical talent? In age? In athleticism? In looks? In achievement?

In fact, is there any metric at all in which we have reason to think people are "equal"? :shock:

It certainly doesn't seem obvious that anybody's ever "equal" with everybody else. So you'd have to explain what sense you mean when you use the word "equal" to describe them: what dimension of them makes them "equal"?

And to be the "equal" of God...well, that's not even possible. So something needs to be explained there.
Of course, we are different. By equal I mean we have the same value in the eyes of Divine Justice.
"Divine Justice"? :shock:

I didn't think you believe in God, so you can't mean God. What is this "Divine Justice" of which you speak?

And I must also ask, because I'm genuinely curious to know, what told you, or how did you find out, that this DJ regards everybody as "equal"?

I'm not seeing how that can be true, because "justice," assuming there's such a thing, means that everybody gets what they deserve...which is always different things, and thus is not at all equal.

Help me out here, if you can.

Oh, and one more question, if I may...if there is DJ, then suffering is explained. For it would mean that matters that remain unsettled here would be remedied later, by DJ. So I don't understand how somebody who believes there's ultimate justice can also complain about apparent unfairnesses in the present -- it would seem he's answered his own question, saying that there's DJ eventually.
Do you think that anybody has the capacity to become Divine? We are different because of the level of wisdom in us. We become Divine when we realize this.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:48 pm
Well, that's a strange thing to think. I certainly know there are things higher than me...I can't imagine why you think it's a problematic idea. It just seems perfectly obvious.
We are equal.
I'm still not seeing how that's even possible to think. I know it's a kind of pop meme that "everybody's equal", but when we get to looking at the particulars of what it would entail, I can see no way of making sense of that claim...at least, so far.

But you may help me.
We are simply minds embedded in different bodies. What we choose to do, good or evil, right or wrong, depends on our bodies and life conditions. There is no such a thing as a good mind or an evil mind. They are similar.
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