"The Supernatural Greatness of Christianity"

[Nick_A]

One of the main reasons the supernatural of greatness of Christianity is avoided with a passion on secular dominated sites simply because emotion is glorified. Only a relative few are aware that the dominance of negative emotions justified as positive are the chief source of mechanical suffering in the world. Christianity speaks of conscious suffering while the world glorifies mechanical suffering. Who know the difference. Yet doing so is what reveals the greatness of Christianity. Read how Gurdjieff explains it:

The only greatness here is the ego's deluded idea that there is a divine plan and purpose to life, it's a very distorted and desperate idea.
Life for sentient feeling creatures is a mechanical process through and through, there is nothing divine about mechanical processes, which have nothing at all to do with spirituality whatsoever. Spirituality is just another man-made sham of an idea manifest in the form of another of mans guilty pleasures, because anything that makes my dick hard, is good for me, so lets roll with whatever I can make up that sounds great.

But hey, if you want to glorify the pain that is being a sentient feeling animal, by using spirituality or God as an excuse to justify it, then don't expect others to just go along with your fetish, other people do not have to feel obligated to follow that line of justification and reason for being, because some people are just too intelligent to buy into that kind of mushy magic.

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We view the structure of our universe differently. For you there is just the mechanics. For me the universe is structured on levels of reality created by the blend of consciousness and mechanical laws. The higher the level of reality the greater the quality of consciousness and less laws which govern it. The level of realty Man lives on has animal reactive consciousness and more laws. Man's conscious potential is the evolution of human being into conscious beings capable of human consciousness as opposed to mechanical beings of reaction. The greatness of Christianity makes conscious evolution possible with the help of the Holy Spirit. It is essential to reconcile the pulls of our lower nature with what our higher reason or vertical consciousness is capable and aware of from a higher level of reality.

[Dontaskme]

We view the structure of our universe differently. For you there is just the mechanics. For me the universe is structured on levels of reality created by the blend of consciousness and mechanical laws. The higher the level of reality the greater the quality of consciousness and less laws which govern it. The level of realty Man lives on has animal reactive consciousness and more laws. Man's conscious potential is the evolution of human being into conscious beings capable of human consciousness as opposed to mechanical beings of reaction. The greatness of Christianity makes conscious evolution possible with the help of the Holy Spirit. It is essential to reconcile the pulls of our lower nature with what our higher reason or vertical consciousness is capable and aware of from a higher level of reality.

Sorry, but this is just more mushy emotional crap..an attempt to cover over, and deny the reality that life is a brutal serial killer eating off of it's own flesh, it's disgusting. Humans are animals full stop, and like all animals they are territorial and will fight each other to the death for resources and territory. That's just the way it is, and nothing surprising from a universe that has no mind or brain to have come up with anything more than that..denial of truth is futile, and to think that life will ever be divine and of a higher consciousness is just wishy washy wishful thinking in the denial of realities actual nature.

It's no mans fault they are religious and spiritual, it's just part of the whole picture that is maya, the illusion of whatever I can make up to make myself look great, high and mighty, all just an insignificant story told by an idiot, for no other reason than to entertain the great big gaping void that is his being, that begs to be filled with just about anything he can imagine, that will lesson the pain of being trapped inside a rotting corpse.

You can convince yourself until the cows come home, that yee is a special laddie...but the actual truth is stranger than fiction.

From inside a cow.......it's hard to get a good handle on what's happening. Where does the outside stop & inside start?

M00 c0w

[Nick_A]

We view the structure of our universe differently. For you there is just the mechanics. For me the universe is structured on levels of reality created by the blend of consciousness and mechanical laws. The higher the level of reality the greater the quality of consciousness and less laws which govern it. The level of realty Man lives on has animal reactive consciousness and more laws. Man's conscious potential is the evolution of human being into conscious beings capable of human consciousness as opposed to mechanical beings of reaction. The greatness of Christianity makes conscious evolution possible with the help of the Holy Spirit. It is essential to reconcile the pulls of our lower nature with what our higher reason or vertical consciousness is capable and aware of from a higher level of reality.

Sorry, but this is just more mushy emotional crap..an attempt to cover over, and deny the reality that life is a brutal serial killer eating off of it's own flesh, it's disgusting. Humans are animals full stop, and like all animals they are territorial and will fight each other to the death for resources and territory. That's just the way it is, and nothing surprising from a universe that has no mind or brain to have come up with anything more than that..denial of truth is futile, and to think that life will ever be divine and of a higher consciousness is just wishy washy wishful thinking in the denial of realities actual nature.

Quite true.. As the Buddha said, life is suffering. The universe below the the level of the sun is a machine. But the universe or the body of God is created by our ineffable source which as creatures of creation is beyond our comprehension. The effects of consciousness exist in what Plato described as above the divided line. The human condition which Christianity deals with recognizes Man as dual natured. The lower parts reflect Man's animal nature while above the line represents the quality of consciousness man is called to awaken to

A car is a machine. We know its purpose. The universe is a machine but we do not understand its purpose. Our negativity prevents it. Suppose this machine is a necessity but not just a whim of a bored deity? Suppose this machine is a necessity that man can consciously evolve within so as to play its part in the necessity of a conscious universe? Gurdjieff, Einstein, Spinoza, and others all suggest that it is our negative emotions and attachments that prevent a human being from feeling their objective purpose.

This is our difference. You see the universe as a useless machine causing suffering and I suggest it is the corruption of human emotion that causes us to be ignorant of the necessity of our universe as the body of God which serves our ineffable creator much like our body serves its purpose for the human essence and its potential for conscious evolution..

It's no mans fault they are religious and spiritual, it's just part of the whole picture that is maya, the illusion of whatever I can make up to make myself look great, high and mighty, all just an insignificant story told by an idiot, for no other reason than to entertain the great big gaping void that is his being, that begs to be filled with just about anything he can imagine, that will lesson the pain of being trapped inside a rotting corpse.

You can convince yourself until the cows come home, that yee is a special laddie...but the actual truth is stranger than fiction.

From inside a cow.......it's hard to get a good handle on what's happening. Where does the outside stop & inside start?

M00 c0w

[Dontaskme]

Once we allow supernatural explanations into our equations then most any god will do, since there seems to be no way to exclude them.

When they are exposed to the light of logic they shrivel and die like a salamander in the sun.

[Dontaskme]

But the universe or the body of God is created by our ineffable source which as creatures of creation is beyond our comprehension.

Conceptual mind comes up with a vast amount of words to explain that which it is incapable of understanding.
In so doing it imagines that it understands.
When ask to define the meaning of it's creations,it falters, and comes up with even more words.
It imagines that that clarifies it's stance.

Makes for a nice bedtime story I suppose..

[Nick_A]

Once we allow supernatural explanations into our equations then most any god will do, since there seems to be no way to exclude them.

When they are exposed to the light of logic they shrivel and die like a salamander in the sun.

First of all the concept of supernatural has a specific meaning for me. It means the relative quality of reality that exists beyond what our senses are capable of. Do you believe that the process of existence occurs beyond what your senses are capable of? When speaking of many gods you are referring to the effects of idolatry which isn't Christian.

[Nick_A]

But the universe or the body of God is created by our ineffable source which as creatures of creation is beyond our comprehension.

Conceptual mind comes up with a vast amount of words to explain that which it is incapable of understanding.
In so doing it imagines that it understands.
When ask to define the meaning of it's creations,it falters, and comes up with even more words.
It imagines that that clarifies it's stance.

Makes for a nice bedtime story I suppose..

It isn't to hard to understand. Man or evolved Man is made in the image of God. This means Man is an actualized microcosm. The universe is a macrocosm or made in the image of God. The microcosm exists within the macrocosm. The universe itself then has a body on a different scale of existence: the universe.

A wise man studies himself and begins to understand the universe. He also studies the universe to see why he has forgotten its purpose and where he has gone wrong.

The esoteric Christian knows this so has experienced the conflict between his lower and higher nature. He admits he is powerless in front of it and the necessity of the Spirit to reconcile it. It leads to the inner direction of conscious evolution and Man becoming himself

[Dontaskme]

First of all the concept of supernatural has a specific meaning for me. It means the relative quality of reality that exists beyond what our senses are capable of. Do you believe that the process of existence occurs beyond what your senses are capable of?

My studies showed me the non-existence of ''self'' or ''I'' ..And so for me, in the (colloquial context) there is no ''my'' senses ..there is only an awareness of senses, and while senses come and go, the awareness of senses remain a constant unchangable presence, which cannot be known. But that non-knowing is not beyond what is always this immediate direct knowing that is present here now, not somewhere beyond. And I know that sounds contradictory, to announce a not-knowing knowing, but that is what my studies on the nature of being has showed this one here, in the colloquial sense, in other words, what seems to be known in this one here, is a fictional story arising from the unknown.

In other words, words are simply part and parcel of the same mystery of reality, they cannot touch the actual grass root essence of it, they can only define reality, inseparable from the mystery itself.

When speaking of many gods you are referring to the effects of idolatry which isn't Christian.

Same could be said for the concept ''Christian'' ..any concept is an image known by that which can never be known. To talk about idolatry is to place an image to the mystery of reality, and call the image whatever name is imagined. Which will always reduce to an image of the imageless.

That's what my studies into the nature of reality have shown me. I have studied Nonduality all my life, and to me, Nonduality is the final truth. It took me a long time to unravel what Nonduality is pointing to, because it's not an easy concept to grasp, but once fully grasped, no futher inquiry is necessary...and that every known concept is just an empty image of the imageless.

[Dontaskme]

It isn't to hard to understand. Man or evolved Man is made in the image of God. This means Man is an actualized microcosm. The universe is a macrocosm or made in the image of God. The microcosm exists within the macrocosm. The universe itself then has a body on a different scale of existence: the universe.

But this is just a conceptual story written and read in time. It's a dual concept arising from nowhere. The image of God, simply means the image of the imageless, because what is seen, is at the exact same time, ''what is looking''. So in actual fact any thing SEEN is always and ever the ''looked upon'' inseparable from the looking. So can the looking look at itself? no, it cannot, and is why the ''looked upon'' can only be known as an image of that which can never be seen. I know that probably doesn't make sense to some people, and it's very difficult to put it into words. What's actually happening here is there is an empty looking behind every eyeball, there is pure empty looking, and that the ''looked upon'' is inseparable from this looking. Science has already proved that '' Every atom has a nucleus surrounded by electrons. ... When you start to consider that atoms are about 99% empty space and they make up 100% of the universe, you can start to see: you're made up of nothingness.''

There's nothing divine or godly about it. It's just what it is, was and always will be, it's just nothing being everything.

A wise man studies himself and begins to understand the universe. He also studies the universe to see why he has forgotten its purpose and where he has gone wrong.

The esoteric Christian knows this so has experienced the conflict between his lower and higher nature. He admits he is powerless in front of it and the necessity of the Spirit to reconcile it. It leads to the inner direction of conscious evolution and Man becoming himself

This is just more conceptual story.

In reality, there is no higher or lower nature of man. Humans are just obsessed with their capacity to use language, which is nothing more than an empty overlay artificially placed upon what is ultimately nothingness of the very first order.

Human beings have no more significance or importance here on earth than say a flatworm has. Life has no other purpose other than to be a replicating dna molecule. Yes and sometimes nature comes up with an intelligent sentient species like a human being, but that doesn't mean it's any more special than say a rat or a dinosaur.

If anything, when it comes to man, all nature has done is created a tyrannical species in the form of human being, simply because of it's capacity to think, which is always a dangerous thing. Thinking creatures are not a good idea as can be seen directly from sheer experience.

For millions and millions of years, the best nature could come up with were dinosaurs. They would have dominated the earth forever, if not for them being wiped out...now we have a new type of dinosaur in the shape of a human being...so as you can see, nothing much changes.

There is nothing here for anything, except carnage and killing. Heck, even the invention of a nuclear bomb is all nature can come up with, do you see where I am going with this...

But if it makes you happy to dream of purpose and meaning, then go for it, but for me, I'd rather live in the real world.

[Nick_A]

First I'd like to explain why Christianity is unique enough to warrant the expression "universal greatness?" It provides the logic of the potential for conscious evolution. Other great paths are concerned with what we do. Judaism refers to the laws one must follow to be worthy of salvation and redemption as revealed in the Old Testament.

The New testament which Jesus taught refers to what we ARE as opposed to what we DO. The idea is to consciously experience what we do in order to change what we ARE carry ones cross

The Crucifixion is a conscious drama. Jesus had to experience the worst of what humanity is capable of to consciously experience the conflict between our lower parts which seek an end to suffering and our conscious higher parts which seeks to see it for what it is. We cannot do it. If someone looks at us the wrong way, we lose or sense of presence The result for the Christ is the appearance of the Holy Spirit to reconcile this duality from a higher perspective; the evolution of Man.

The potential for Man to evolve from a plurality with no I into a unity governed by I is why I agree with Simone concerning the supernatural greatness of Christianity.

I agree with you that duality is the shadows on the wall in Plato's Cave. But for those not being third force blind, they may see how duality becomes one as part of a trinity they are yet to experience and how three becomes one.

[Nick_A]

It is obvious to ask why if the essence of Christianity is so essential for human evolution, it is so condemned by the secular world? Why can the value of the essence of Christianity be only acceptable by its devolution into forms of man made interpretations called Christendom? Why is it necessary that Simone Weil become the patron saint of outsiders who sense the value of the essence of Christianity but do not find it in the interpretations of the secular world?

First of all Gurdjieff wrote in the 29th aphorism:"Blessed is he who has a soul, blessed is he who has none, but woe and grief to him who has it in embryo."

How true. Some don't care and have no desire to BE, to awaken, while some others have acquired a soul so can DO as a Christian. Those who really suffer are those who have it in its embryo. They are between two worlds. They no longer believe in the world but are still captive of it.

Most cannot recognize them. I'd like to become a person who can recognize them and join those who provide an alternative to secular condemnation rather than being fooled by charlatanism. The greatness of Christianity must remain hidden from the world since as Jesus said, the world must hate me. It is up to those who have experienced Christianity to help those with their natural questions as to human conscious potential

"Pity them my children, they are far from home and no one knows them. Let those in quest of God be careful lest appearances deceive them in these people who are peculiar and hard to place; no one rightly knows them but those in whom the same light shines" Meister Eckhart

[promethean75]

"The pathetic thing that grows out of this condition is called faith: in other words, closing one's eyes upon one's self once and for all, to avoid suffering the sight of incurable falsehood. People erect a concept of morality, of virtue, of holiness upon this false view of all things; they ground good conscience upon faulty vision; they argue that no other sort of vision has value any more, once they have made theirs sacrosanct with the names of "God," "salvation" and "eternity." I unearth this theological instinct in all directions: it is the most widespread and the most subterranean form of falsehood to be found on earth."

"The most spiritual men, as the strongest, find their happiness where others would find their destruction: in the labyrinth, in hardness against themselves and others, in experiments. Their joy is self-conquest: asceticism becomes in them nature, need, and instinct. Difficult tasks are a privilege to them; to play with burdens that crush others...."

- Friedrich 'The Moustache' Nietzsche

[Nick_A]

"The pathetic thing that grows out of this condition is called faith: in other words, closing one's eyes upon one's self once and for all, to avoid suffering the sight of incurable falsehood. People erect a concept of morality, of virtue, of holiness upon this false view of all things; they ground good conscience upon faulty vision; they argue that no other sort of vision has value any more, once they have made theirs sacrosanct with the names of "God," "salvation" and "eternity." I unearth this theological instinct in all directions: it is the most widespread and the most subterranean form of falsehood to be found on earth."

"The most spiritual men, as the strongest, find their happiness where others would find their destruction: in the labyrinth, in hardness against themselves and others, in experiments. Their joy is self-conquest: asceticism becomes in them nature, need, and instinct. Difficult tasks are a privilege to them; to play with burdens that crush others...."

- Friedrich 'The Moustache' Nietzsche

There are three qualities of faith: the first is faith IN the body and as we all know we age so such faith is foolish. The second is faith IN something or someone. It is a quality of faith used in secular religion and politics which passes the buck into a God or a tyrant for example. The third quality is the faith OF Christ. It is conscious faith humanity has the potential for. It connects levels of reality through noesis or intuitive reason. Obviously it is rare.

Nietzsche appreciates the danger of faith IN but doesn't speak of the faith OF Christ. Yet the greatness of Christianity requires those open to the faith OF Christ and not being caught up in the faith IN Christ.

[popeye1945]

There is no such thing as the supernatural there is only that which remains unexplained. The supernatural apparently is where the ghosts goblins and gods live.

[Nick_A]

There is no such thing as the supernatural there is only that which remains unexplained. The supernatural apparently is where the ghosts goblins and gods live.

Sound as you know is vibration. We can only hear sound up to a certain pitch. Once humans, animal, and machines can no longer sense sound, does this mean the quality of its vibrations no longer exists or just beyond the senses? When we admit that qualities of vibrations can exist beyond the senses, then we admit that the supernatural is a quality of reality beyond the natural.

Plato, in his divided line analogy, asserts that what is above the line or supernatural is more real then the visible below the line or the sun. You may call it rubbish but is it?