An afterlife and forgetfulness

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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seeds
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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Belinda wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:42 pm I believe in the eternal now, so I believe there is life after death, but not life as we know it as differentiated persons. I can imagine that the eternal now contains also differentiated experiences like what we have in this life, but how the switch-over from eternal now to relative time might happen is beyond my imagination.
B, if you believe in life after death, and can imagine that the eternal now also contains "...differentiated experiences like what we have in this life,..." then what (or who) are you envisioning as having these experiences?
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seeds
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:14 pm ...It just seems to me to be the case that memory is not permanent as evidenced by people who reach very old age and have severe memory deficits and that the senses are fed by what eyes, ears, etc take in and if we don't have eyes, ears, etc. then we won't be seeing or hearing anything.
When you encounter the three-dimensional features of a vivid dream within the subjective arena of your mind, you experience the full range of sensory perception (sight, touch, hearing, smell, and taste) without the use of the corresponding bodily features of eyes, skin, ears, nose, or tongue (which are but mere "windows" into the outer dimension of the universe).

In other words, our senses are mentally-based, not bodily-based.

So, if it is indeed the "mind" that survives physical death, then we will not lose any of our senses.
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seeds
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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RCSaunders wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:48 pm Life is not a thing and it certaily isn't energy.
When fairly recent discoveries in cosmology have the physicists admitting that they don't know what 95% of the universe is composed of, referring to it as "dark" energy and "dark" matter,...

...then perhaps you shouldn't be so cock-sure as to what the ontological makeup of life, mind, and consciousness might be, when they too may simply be another form of "dark" energy that is beyond the reach of our measuring devices.
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RCSaunders
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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seeds wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:13 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:48 pm Life is not a thing and it certaily isn't energy.
When fairly recent discoveries in cosmology have the physicists admitting that they don't know what 95% of the universe is composed of, referring to it as "dark" energy and "dark" matter,...

...then perhaps you shouldn't be so cock-sure as to what the ontological makeup of life, mind, and consciousness might be, when they too may simply be another form of "dark" energy that is beyond the reach of our measuring devices.
You have asserted that life is energy. But you have no evidence at all for that assertion. My whole view of life is based solely on evidence available to anyone.

Your entire view is based on what is not known and what science admits there is not yet clear evidence for. It is always a mistake to assert anything as true based on ignorance. It is saying, "this must be true because I don't know anything else that is." The operative phrase is correct, "I don't know," and you don't.
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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RCSaunders wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:32 pm You have asserted that life is energy.
I asserted no such thing (at least not in the post you are responding to).

Pay attention to what was written.

What I asserted is that you shouldn't be so "cock-sure" that it is impossible for life, mind, and consciousness to be founded upon a form of energy that (like "dark" energy and "dark" matter) we simply cannot measure.
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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seeds wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:36 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:32 pm You have asserted that life is energy.
I asserted no such thing (at least not in the post you are responding to).

Pay attention to what was written.

What I asserted is that you shouldn't be so "cock-sure" that it is impossible for life, mind, and consciousness to be founded upon a form of energy that (like "dark" energy and "dark" matter) we simply cannot measure.
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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RCSaunders wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:04 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:50 am
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:45 pm
Right, exactly! What was a person, no longer is!
Note your accustomed use of tenses.("was" and "is") There is an eternal now that is timeless with no 'was' and no 'will be'. Just as you use spatial measurements so you use temporal measurements. Time is a fabrication.
"Eternal now," is as cogent as, "dry water," or "empty fullness." Just because you can stick words together doesn't give them meaning, especially when the result is self-contradictory. The white Queen would love you!

Unless you mean every concept is a, "fabrication," [which in one sense they are since all concepts are created by a human minds] time is, like length and weight, a metric or means of measurement. In the case of, "time," and its converse, "velocity," it is the relationship between motions or events that is measured. Time is not a substance or thing and does not exist except as an identifiable relationships between events, but those relationship are real and time is a true concept for them. Every event, relative to all other events is either before, after, or simultaneous with those events, which are rightly called, "past," when before other events, or, "future," when after other events, and, "now or current," when simultaneous with other events. Every event has a beginning and an end. Nothing is eternal and nothing lasts forever.
Concepts of measurements are all fabrications that allow us to capture change and hold it pinned down until we can act on what seems to be the case.All concepts of measurement are about relations between putative things. The only concept that is true is we know change is happening or, in other words, this relative world is the only world we know .

'Eternal Now' is a clanky phrase. I prefer 'the Absolute'. The absolute is not life after death. It's not "after" at all, nor is it before, but is absolute experience devoid of relative time and other relative changes .

You wrote " Nothing is eternal and nothing lasts forever." But everlasting and eternal are not synonymous.
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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Belinda wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:35 am 'Eternal Now' is a clanky phrase. I prefer 'the Absolute'.
Absolute, "what?" "Absolute," identifies an attribute, not a thing, entity, or substance. You can have absolute zero, or absolute correct or incorrect, or absolute on or off, but there cannot be just, "absolute." It's tantamount to saying you have a bottle of, "red," as though red existed on its own and not only as an attribute of things that are red.

You've turned, "absolute," into a floating abstraction. It's hypostatization (reification) of a genuine concept into a non-existent, "something."
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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RCSaunders wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:54 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:35 am 'Eternal Now' is a clanky phrase. I prefer 'the Absolute'.
Absolute, "what?" "Absolute," identifies an attribute, not a thing, entity, or substance. You can have absolute zero, or absolute correct or incorrect, or absolute on or off, but there cannot be just, "absolute." It's tantamount to saying you have a bottle of, "red," as though red existed on its own and not only as an attribute of things that are red.

You've turned, "absolute," into a floating abstraction. It's hypostatization (reification) of a genuine concept into a non-existent, "something."
Yes, it is a funny word for undifferentiated existence. As a matter of fact English usage permits turning an adjective into a noun by placing the definite article in front of it.
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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Belinda wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:07 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:54 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:35 am 'Eternal Now' is a clanky phrase. I prefer 'the Absolute'.
Absolute, "what?" "Absolute," identifies an attribute, not a thing, entity, or substance. You can have absolute zero, or absolute correct or incorrect, or absolute on or off, but there cannot be just, "absolute." It's tantamount to saying you have a bottle of, "red," as though red existed on its own and not only as an attribute of things that are red.

You've turned, "absolute," into a floating abstraction. It's hypostatization (reification) of a genuine concept into a non-existent, "something."
Yes, it is a funny word for undifferentiated existence. As a matter of fact English usage permits turning an adjective into a noun by placing the definite article in front of it.



Undifferentiated existence is known via the contrast of NON-duality.

Illustrated here..it is known as and through this image what Undifferentiated existence IS.

Both these images are what's known as the non-dual YOU

Image
Image

ONENESS Artificially divided by conceptual language which is dual by it's very nature. In that from out of the ALL that is, was, and ever will be without start or end, comes what appears to be division.
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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seeds wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:11 pm When you encounter the three-dimensional features of a vivid dream within the subjective arena of your mind, you experience the full range of sensory perception (sight, touch, hearing, smell, and taste) without the use of the corresponding bodily features of eyes, skin, ears, nose, or tongue (which are but mere "windows" into the outer dimension of the universe).
Nope! A dream is nothing more than free-running imagination (because one is not conscious to control it) made up of sensory material stored in memory, which is all derived from the senses while conscious (i.e. awake). You cannot dream anything the parts of which were not originally actually experienced while awake. All of a dream is just made up stuff, like most people's philosophies and religions.
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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RCSaunders wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:33 pm Nope! A dream is nothing more than free-running imagination (because one is not conscious to control it)...
Tell that to a lucid dreamer.

According to Wiki (underlining/bolding mine):
Wiki wrote: A lucid dream is a type of dream where the dreamer becomes aware that they are dreaming. During a lucid dream, the dreamer may gain some amount of control over the dream characters, narrative, or environment...
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:33 pm ...made up of sensory material stored in memory, which is all derived from the senses while conscious (i.e. awake). You cannot dream anything the parts of which were not originally actually experienced while awake. All of a dream is just made up stuff, like most people's philosophies and religions.
Once again, you aren't paying attention to what I wrote in the post you are responding to.

I clearly stated that within the context of a vivid dream, none of your corresponding bodily structures such as, again, your eyes, skin, ears, nose, or tongue are being utilized in the process of you seeing, touching, hearing, smelling, or tasting the (almost "real" seeming) features of whatever it is you are dreaming about.

In other words, you could have your eyes surgically removed and you would still be able to "see" (within the arena of your mind) a tropical island paradise, for example, in a dream...

ImageImage

Again, our senses are mentally-based, not bodily-based.
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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seeds wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:02 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:33 pm Nope! A dream is nothing more than free-running imagination (because one is not conscious to control it)...
Tell that to a lucid dreamer.
I am a lucid dreamer. I am almost always aware that I am dreaming, and can actually manipulate some dreams, and have even described what I'm dreaming to my wife while asleep. Dreaming is exactly what I described.
seeds wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:02 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:33 pm ...made up of sensory material stored in memory, which is all derived from the senses while conscious (i.e. awake). You cannot dream anything the parts of which were not originally actually experienced while awake. All of a dream is just made up stuff, like most people's philosophies and religions.
Once again, you aren't paying attention to what I wrote in the post you are responding to.
Of course I did. I'm explaining how wrong your are.
seeds wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:02 am I clearly stated that within the context of a vivid dream, none of your corresponding bodily structures such as, again, your eyes, skin, ears, nose, or tongue are being utilized in the process of you seeing, touching, hearing, smelling, or tasting the (almost "real" seeming) features of whatever it is you are dreaming about.

In other words, you could have your eyes surgically removed and you would still be able to "see" (within the arena of your mind) a tropical island paradise, for example, in a dream...
When you dream that you are, "seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, or tasting somethin, you are not having those experiences by means of the senses, you are being conscious of past actual such experience originally experienced by means of the senses and stored in memory. Dreaming is actually only remembering, but the remembering is usually disordered because there is no conscious control of what is being recalled from memory. It's not some kind of, "magic," or, "mystical," perception. You cannot have a dream experience that has any element that was not first stored in memory from actual conscious experience.
seeds wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:02 am Again, our senses are mentally-based, not bodily-based.
That's not quite right either. "Mental," only pertains to the human mind and those unique aspects of human consciousness, volition, rationality, and intellect. All higher animals consciously perceive (see, hear, feel, smell and taste) existence, but it's not, "mental."

You seemed very confused about psychology.
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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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seeds wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:02 am Again, our senses are mentally-based, not bodily-based.
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:55 am "Mental," only pertains to the human mind and those unique aspects of human consciousness, volition, rationality, and intellect. All higher animals consciously perceive (see, hear, feel, smell and taste) existence, but it's not, "mental."
The human does not have a mind, except in the concepts conception of itself. The mind is a concept known to itself alone. 'Alone' means no 'other' - ''Alone' means ''oneness'' - 'Alone' means 'nondual'..which means the perceiver is inseparable from perception, therefore what is perceived CANNOT and 'does not' exist as a tangible physical object outside of immediate knowing. An object is only a perception of knowing, perception is all there is. You are the knowing that cannot be known. In other words ''knowing'' is both nothing and everything simultaneously, equals same difference. Any difference is an illusory appearance, a difference where there is none in reality whatsoever, except in this conception..aka story, aka dream.

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Re: An afterlife and forgetfulness

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Gary Childress wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:31 am I find myself forgetting many things, places I've been, things I've done, people I've known. What happens when I completely forget everything? What happens when I die? If there is being after death, then what could/would it be like without any memories or sensory experience?
Both the senses and memories are produced and stored by the brain.

Death is death of the body including the brain.

It seems to me that senses and memories would cease to exist. If your mind continues to exist, it would be blank.

If that's what you are thinking, I agree.
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