Agnostic Again

[Gary Childress]

Well, I'm not sure if there is a God or not. If there is, then he's pretty worthless in my book. If not, then I see no reason in wasting time praying to a being that only deals misery out to everyone. If you believe in God, good luck. Just don't expect the rest of us to.

[Immanuel Can]

I see no reason in wasting time praying to a being that only deals misery out to everyone.

I always find comments like that a little surprising. This world is full of good things, as well as those that are not so good. Some people get more of one than another. And some people only notice the one, and not the other.

But there is no person whose life is so cursed that it contains no blessing. And there is no life so blessed that it knows no pain. I think it's fair to say there is no conclusion possible from reading one's impression of circumstances...one's own, or anybody else's.

But maybe you have other reasons, Gary...I wonder what they are.

[Gary Childress]

I see no reason in wasting time praying to a being that only deals misery out to everyone.

I always find comments like that a little surprising. This world is full of good things, as well as those that are not so good. Some people get more of one than another. And some people only notice the one, and not the other.

But there is no person whose life is so cursed that it contains no blessing. And there is no life so blessed that it knows no pain. I think it's fair to say there is no conclusion possible from reading one's impression of circumstances...one's own, or anybody else's.

But maybe you have other reasons, Gary...I wonder what they are.

Not sure what these "blessings" are that you are talking about? Could you give me a few examples of what might be "blessings"?

[Gary Childress]

I mean I realize life could be such that eating snot for dinner was more common than eating hamburger helper, but I would hardly call it a "blessing" that we're not eating snot.

[Immanuel Can]

Not sure what these "blessings" are that you are talking about? Could you give me a few examples of what might be "blessings"?

Yes, I could. But let me see if I can make the point to you in a more amusing form, if I may.

https://babylonbee.com/news/god-ever-do ... athing-air

[Gary Childress]

Not sure what these "blessings" are that you are talking about? Could you give me a few examples of what might be "blessings"?

Yes, I could. But let me see if I can make the point to you in a more amusing form, if I may.

https://babylonbee.com/news/god-ever-do ... athing-air

I don't know. Pretty lame "amusement" if you ask me. Are you actually thankful that you don't implode into a fiery ball upon waking up in the morning? I mean, I would call a "blessing" something that actually satisfied a person or made us happy.

[Gary Childress]

Not sure what these "blessings" are that you are talking about? Could you give me a few examples of what might be "blessings"?

Yes, I could. But let me see if I can make the point to you in a more amusing form, if I may.

https://babylonbee.com/news/god-ever-do ... athing-air

I don't know. Pretty lame "amusement" if you ask me. Are you actually thankful that you don't implode into a fiery ball upon waking up in the morning? I mean, I would call a "blessing" something that actually satisfied a person or made us happy.

But what do I know? I'm just a crazy schizophrenic.

[Immanuel Can]

I don't know. Pretty lame "amusement" if you ask me.

Well, let's take a more direct approach.

You have life. You have freedom. You have choice. You life in one of the richest countries in history. You have a computer. You've been granted to have a brain, and a fair helping of empathy. You have food every day, and shelter, too. You probably like the taste of coffee in the morning, and if you don't like sunrises, maybe you like sunsets...

Pets are pretty great. So are friends. Relationships are complicated but great. Good books are great. Transportation is amazing. So is health care...better than at any time in history. Art is great, and music is fantastic. You have eyes and ears that can appreciate both...

Is there nothing in any of that for which you feel even the least bit grateful?

I don't know what other things you deal with. But I'm guessing there are some bad things in your life, too. Fair enough. But bad things don't make the good ones go away...not unless, in your own reckoning, you let them do that. Then you can have all your joys killed by your sorrows.

But that, too, is a choice. You can focus on what you don't have, or spend a few moments to be grateful for what you do have. It's up to you.

[Gary Childress]

I don't know. Pretty lame "amusement" if you ask me.

Well, let's take a more direct approach.

You have life. You have freedom. You have choice. You life in one of the richest countries in history. You have a computer. You've been granted to have a brain, and a fair helping of empathy. You have food every day, and shelter, too. You probably like the taste of coffee in the morning, and if you don't like sunrises, maybe you like sunsets...

Pets are pretty great. So are friends. Relationships are complicated but great. Good books are great. Transportation is amazing. So is health care...better than at any time in history. Art is great, and music is fantastic. You have eyes and ears that can appreciate both...

Is there nothing in any of that for which you feel even the least bit grateful?

I don't know what other things you deal with. But I'm guessing there are some bad things in your life, too. Fair enough. But bad things don't make the good ones go away...not unless, in your own reckoning, you let them do that. Then you can have all your joys killed by your sorrows.

But that, too, is a choice. You can focus on what you don't have, or spend a few moments to be grateful for what you do have. It's up to you.

Yeah. I could be homeless, and eating snot for dinner with my eyeballs growing out of my forehead. I'm so thankful.

[Immanuel Can]

I'm so thankful.

Interesting.

Well, Gary, that sort of reaction is pretty common to mankind. And the Bible actually mentions it explicitly:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools..." (Romans 1:18-22)

They knew God exists. They refused to honour Him as God. They were not thankful. And consequently, the wrath of God is against such people for their suppression of the truth and their ingratitude.

But that phrase: "they did not...give thanks": it's what's called "the sin of ingratitude." And people are very prone to it.

In other words, there's just no making some people grateful. Whatever they have, all they think about is what they don't have.

Is that you?

[promethean75]

Ohp, there's another one right there! The alienating effect of misplaced gratitude upon imaginary sources and the depreciation of the value of human interdependency.

I'm always hearing people telling me to 'be grateful' I'm not homeless or starving to death. Okay, but grateful to what? Can't be god cuz he don't exist... and it can't be the erf cuz the erf is just a giant, mindless rock of molten lava, and it can't be the fates cuz they're figments of the imagination of crazy Greek people.

It must be other people, then. I mean if there is anything to be thankful to, it would have to be real people. So maybe the next time you sit before a good meal, instead of thanking that imaginary asshole god, thank the Mexicans that picked those tomatoes you're eating for seventeen cents an hour, or built that house you're sitting in for a few dollars more.

I mean just look at the irony. You survive open heart surgery and you thank god more than the surgeon. Your favorite team wins and you thank god instead of the atheletes. The building you live in doesn't collapse during an earthquake and you thank god instead of the brilliant architects that designed a quake-proof building.

But it gets even more ridiculous.

When shit goes wrong, you give god no credit whatsoever, and instead blame someone else (or yourself).

[attofishpi]

[attofishpi]

Agnostic Again

What do you mean "Agnostic Again" - EVERYONE is agnostic, unless they know for certain that God exists or for certain that God does not exist.

So right now I assume you are agnostic atheist.

[Gary Childress]

Agnostic Again

What do you mean "Agnostic Again" - EVERYONE is agnostic, unless they know for certain that God exists or for certain that God does not exist.

So right now I assume you are agnostic atheist.

I'm saying I don't know for certain if God exists. As far as I can tell God would have to be a pretty big asshole god to preside over this world. If God doesn't exist then that would explain a LOT. But I don't know either way. Part of me wants to believe there's a God but the other part says it can't be true. Not in a world like this.

[Gary Childress]

I'm so thankful.

Interesting.

Well, Gary, that sort of reaction is pretty common to mankind. And the Bible actually mentions it explicitly:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools..." (Romans 1:18-22)

They knew God exists. They refused to honour Him as God. They were not thankful. And consequently, the wrath of God is against such people for their suppression of the truth and their ingratitude.

But that phrase: "they did not...give thanks": it's what's called "the sin of ingratitude." And people are very prone to it.

In other words, there's just no making some people grateful. Whatever they have, all they think about is what they don't have.

Is that you?

So in other words, God is an asshole god who harms people simply because they don't kiss his ass? Why would God harm someone who was obeying human laws, didn't hurt other human beings, rather the only thing he did was hate on God for the fucked up world he created. That's an asshole god, IC. If you want to worship an asshole god who is responsible for immense human misery and suffering, then that's up to you. Don't expect the rest of us to kiss his butt.