Good and evil

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Gary Childress
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Re: Good and evil

Post by Gary Childress »

Age wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:40 am
seeds wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:18 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:52 pm

Do you believe in a single God or spirit or no god(s) at all?
I believe that the universe is the mind of a singular entity.
Could it be possible that ALL the physical matter of the whole Universe, which is continually changing in shape and form, be the singular Entity mentioned here, and the Mind, (the OPENNESS and Creator) within the Universe, Itself, also be a singular Entity, but which exists as One WITH thee Universe?

And, OF COURSE, this could be much better worded.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 pm And just as there are no unincarnate spirits inhabiting your own mind, likewise, there are none inhabiting God's mind.
Could the word 'Mind' just refer to the OPENNESS that exists, within the Universe, where a physical form, and being, has been allowed to evolve, and continue to evolve, with the ability to learn, understand, reason, and create absolutely ANY thing, where what has been wanted to be created has been allowed to happen and occur?
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 pm I also believe that the word "God" comes with too much negative baggage,
What are examples of just some of this supposed "too much negative baggage"?

From what I have observed EVERY thing that relates to God is ACTUALLY good, which carries with it positivity.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 pm and thus we need a new way of visualizing a living (incorporeal) consciousness who has evolved to such a point that it makes us humans seem like amoebas in comparison.
_______
Are you suggesting here that God, Itself, ALSO evolves?

If yes, then does Its evolution change at the same rate as, let us say, 'human evolution'?
You might want to fix your quoting. You're quoting Seeds, not me.
Age
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Re: Good and evil

Post by Age »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:20 am
Age wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:40 am
seeds wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:18 pm
I believe that the universe is the mind of a singular entity.
Could it be possible that ALL the physical matter of the whole Universe, which is continually changing in shape and form, be the singular Entity mentioned here, and the Mind, (the OPENNESS and Creator) within the Universe, Itself, also be a singular Entity, but which exists as One WITH thee Universe?

And, OF COURSE, this could be much better worded.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 pm And just as there are no unincarnate spirits inhabiting your own mind, likewise, there are none inhabiting God's mind.
Could the word 'Mind' just refer to the OPENNESS that exists, within the Universe, where a physical form, and being, has been allowed to evolve, and continue to evolve, with the ability to learn, understand, reason, and create absolutely ANY thing, where what has been wanted to be created has been allowed to happen and occur?
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 pm I also believe that the word "God" comes with too much negative baggage,
What are examples of just some of this supposed "too much negative baggage"?

From what I have observed EVERY thing that relates to God is ACTUALLY good, which carries with it positivity.
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 pm and thus we need a new way of visualizing a living (incorporeal) consciousness who has evolved to such a point that it makes us humans seem like amoebas in comparison.
_______
Are you suggesting here that God, Itself, ALSO evolves?

If yes, then does Its evolution change at the same rate as, let us say, 'human evolution'?
You might want to fix your quoting. You're quoting Seeds, not me.
Thank you for alerting me to the CLEARLY Wrong and inexcusable mistake I made here.

Apologies for misquoting both of you.

I have corrected it already.
Gary Childress
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Re: Good and evil

Post by Gary Childress »

Age wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:23 am
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:20 am
Age wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:40 am

Could it be possible that ALL the physical matter of the whole Universe, which is continually changing in shape and form, be the singular Entity mentioned here, and the Mind, (the OPENNESS and Creator) within the Universe, Itself, also be a singular Entity, but which exists as One WITH thee Universe?

And, OF COURSE, this could be much better worded.



Could the word 'Mind' just refer to the OPENNESS that exists, within the Universe, where a physical form, and being, has been allowed to evolve, and continue to evolve, with the ability to learn, understand, reason, and create absolutely ANY thing, where what has been wanted to be created has been allowed to happen and occur?


What are examples of just some of this supposed "too much negative baggage"?

From what I have observed EVERY thing that relates to God is ACTUALLY good, which carries with it positivity.


Are you suggesting here that God, Itself, ALSO evolves?

If yes, then does Its evolution change at the same rate as, let us say, 'human evolution'?
You might want to fix your quoting. You're quoting Seeds, not me.
Thank you for alerting me to the CLEARLY Wrong and inexcusable mistake I made here.

Apologies for misquoting both of you.

I have corrected it already.
You're welcome and apology accepted.
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bahman
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Re: Good and evil

Post by bahman »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 pm Are there separate spirits, gods or whatever in the world, one representing good and the other evil? And if there are, which God is more powerful and why do you think that is so (i.e. what evidence do you think exists for the predominance of one over the other)?
Yes, there are good God and evil God and neutral God.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Good and evil

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bahman wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:35 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 pm Are there separate spirits, gods or whatever in the world, one representing good and the other evil? And if there are, which God is more powerful and why do you think that is so (i.e. what evidence do you think exists for the predominance of one over the other)?
Yes, there are good God and evil God and neutral God.
God by definition has to be omnibenevolent, omniscience, omnipresent, omnipotent and omni-whatever-good.

Any entity less than the above is merely a pseudo-god which can be kicked-in-the-ass by the above omni-whatever-good God.

Which theist will accept his God to be inferior to another?
Therefore it is only rational for any theist to claim his God is that omni-whatever-good God and inferior to none.
Since making a claim is so easy, it would be very stupid to settle for a lesser claim.
But of course to prove an omni-whatever-good-God is real is another story.

Note St Anselm's definition of God, i.e.
God is that entity than which no greater can be conceived.
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attofishpi
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Re: Good and evil

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:21 am God by definition has to be omnibenevolent, omniscience, omnipresent, omnipotent and omni-whatever-good.
Where are you getting this nonsense from - cite your sources. From what I have experienced of God, I will accept omnipresent and omnipotent (to what we perceive as reality).

Beyond that, you are pulling at thin air.
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Re: Good and evil

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:55 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:21 am God by definition has to be omnibenevolent, omniscience, omnipresent, omnipotent and omni-whatever-good.
Where are you getting this nonsense from - cite your sources. From what I have experienced of God, I will accept omnipresent and omnipotent (to what we perceive as reality).

Beyond that, you are pulling at thin air.
Sources?? use your rational thinking!

If that is the case, then theists who claim their God is omniscient & omni-whatever-good will contrast your only omnipresent and omnipotent God as an ignorant fool relative theirs.

Theists who claim their God is omnibenevolent will insist your only omnipresent and omnipotent God is all evil in contrast to theirs, i.e. with omnipotence and omnipresence to commit the worst evil possible. Your God could possibly be Satan.

Theists who claim only their God is omni-whatever-good will insist your only omnipresent and omnipotent God is good-for-nothing-else relative to theirs.

As such you are opening your God to be condemned as inferior by those who claimed their God as omni-whatever-good.

As such to avoid your God being condemned as inferior, it only rational that all you need to do is to claim your God is omni-whatever-good thus shutting out any possibility of your God being inferior in comparison to the claim of an omni-whatever-good-God.

So you still insist your God is only omnipresent and omnipotent?
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attofishpi
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Re: Good and evil

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:55 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:21 am God by definition has to be omnibenevolent, omniscience, omnipresent, omnipotent and omni-whatever-good.
Where are you getting this nonsense from - cite your sources. From what I have experienced of God, I will accept omnipresent and omnipotent (to what we perceive as reality).

Beyond that, you are pulling at thin air.
Sources?? use your rational thinking!
Holy crap I hope one day U do.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amIf that is the case, then theists who claim their God is omniscient & omni-whatever-good will contrast your only omnipresent and omnipotent God as an ignorant fool relative theirs.
You are talking about mere 'believers' that hope for something that ain't what I have experienced of God. You are clearly mistaking me for someone who gives a flying fuck about what a bunch of bible loving morons think - where they haven't experienced even the WRATH of this entity which might make them second guess all their misguided beliefs about this entity.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amTheists who claim their God is omnibenevolent will insist your only omnipresent and omnipotent God is all evil in contrast to theirs, i.e. with omnipotence and omnipresence to commit the worst evil possible. Your God could possibly be Satan.
Again...SO FUCKING WHAT!? Most THEISTS are MORONS - look at all the evangelical twads spouting their self righteous crap all over the place including this very forum.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amTheists who claim only their God is omni-whatever-good will insist your only omnipresent and omnipotent God is good-for-nothing-else relative to theirs.
Yippy-Skippy - and me and my sage ilk shall continue to laugh at their short of sight smug self indulgent hypocrisy.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amAs such you are opening your God to be condemned as inferior by those who claimed their God as omni-whatever-good.
Again - I don't care.
God is condemned ALL the time by EVANGELISTS that preach HATE - such as God hates abortionists, God hates gays etc..etc.. HE that casts the first stone and all that stuff.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amAs such to avoid your God being condemned as inferior, it only rational that all you need to do is to claim your God is omni-whatever-good thus shutting out any possibility of your God being inferior in comparison to the claim of an omni-whatever-good-God.
WRONG. All I need to do as all the sages do, is LAUGH at their stupidity.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amSo you still insist your God is only omnipresent and omnipotent?
Yep. He may have other traits..I just have no empirical evidence for them.

Comprehende?
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bahman
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Re: Good and evil

Post by bahman »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:21 am
bahman wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:35 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 pm Are there separate spirits, gods or whatever in the world, one representing good and the other evil? And if there are, which God is more powerful and why do you think that is so (i.e. what evidence do you think exists for the predominance of one over the other)?
Yes, there are good God and evil God and neutral God.
God by definition has to be omnibenevolent, omniscience, omnipresent, omnipotent and omni-whatever-good.

Any entity less than the above is merely a pseudo-god which can be kicked-in-the-ass by the above omni-whatever-good God.

Which theist will accept his God to be inferior to another?
Therefore it is only rational for any theist to claim his God is that omni-whatever-good God and inferior to none.
Since making a claim is so easy, it would be very stupid to settle for a lesser claim.
But of course to prove an omni-whatever-good-God is real is another story.

Note St Anselm's definition of God, i.e.
God is that entity than which no greater can be conceived.
Yes, an evil God is greater in doing evil compared to a good God and vice versa.
seeds
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Re: Good and evil

Post by seeds »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:21 am
bahman wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:35 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:39 pm Are there separate spirits, gods or whatever in the world, one representing good and the other evil? And if there are, which God is more powerful and why do you think that is so (i.e. what evidence do you think exists for the predominance of one over the other)?
Yes, there are good God and evil God and neutral God.
God by definition has to be omnibenevolent, omniscience, omnipresent, omnipotent and omni-whatever-good.
WRONG!

As far as we humans are concerned, God, by definition, simply has to be the singular living Entity who created this particular universe and thus made our awakening into existence possible.

In other words, qualifying for the title of "God" has nothing whatsoever to do with an Entity's disposition, or whether or not it lives up to some "ideal" notion of what the terms "omni-benevolent" or "omni-good" mean.
­­­­­­_______
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Good and evil

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:55 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:55 am

Where are you getting this nonsense from - cite your sources. From what I have experienced of God, I will accept omnipresent and omnipotent (to what we perceive as reality).

Beyond that, you are pulling at thin air.
Sources?? use your rational thinking!
Holy crap I hope one day U do.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amIf that is the case, then theists who claim their God is omniscient & omni-whatever-good will contrast your only omnipresent and omnipotent God as an ignorant fool relative theirs.
You are talking about mere 'believers' that hope for something that ain't what I have experienced of God. You are clearly mistaking me for someone who gives a flying fuck about what a bunch of bible loving morons think - where they haven't experienced even the WRATH of this entity which might make them second guess all their misguided beliefs about this entity.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amTheists who claim their God is omnibenevolent will insist your only omnipresent and omnipotent God is all evil in contrast to theirs, i.e. with omnipotence and omnipresence to commit the worst evil possible. Your God could possibly be Satan.
Again...SO FUCKING WHAT!? Most THEISTS are MORONS - look at all the evangelical twads spouting their self righteous crap all over the place including this very forum.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amTheists who claim only their God is omni-whatever-good will insist your only omnipresent and omnipotent God is good-for-nothing-else relative to theirs.
Yippy-Skippy - and me and my sage ilk shall continue to laugh at their short of sight smug self indulgent hypocrisy.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amAs such you are opening your God to be condemned as inferior by those who claimed their God as omni-whatever-good.
Again - I don't care.
God is condemned ALL the time by EVANGELISTS that preach HATE - such as God hates abortionists, God hates gays etc..etc.. HE that casts the first stone and all that stuff.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amAs such to avoid your God being condemned as inferior, it only rational that all you need to do is to claim your God is omni-whatever-good thus shutting out any possibility of your God being inferior in comparison to the claim of an omni-whatever-good-God.
WRONG. All I need to do as all the sages do, is LAUGH at their stupidity.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amSo you still insist your God is only omnipresent and omnipotent?
Yep. He may have other traits..I just have no empirical evidence for them.

Comprehende?
It is not only theists who will condemn your God as inferior with contempt.

Any other rational person can made the same comparison and asserted your God is inferior to God-proper.

Reference?
note I quoted St. Anselm.
Descartes made similar claims of an ultimate supreme perfect God.

You can be indifferent to the above but your God is rationally and logically inferior to the omni-whatever-good God.

Btw, the above is only on condition and assumption you claim God exists are real, but in reality it is impossible for a God to be real.
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Re: Good and evil

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

bahman wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:34 pm Yes, an evil God is greater in doing evil compared to a good God and vice versa.
Note sure of your point.
What is preferred by humanity is a moral or good God, thus an evil God [no matter how much greater] must be condemned.
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Re: Good and evil

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

seeds wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:55 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:21 am
bahman wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:35 pm
Yes, there are good God and evil God and neutral God.
God by definition has to be omnibenevolent, omniscience, omnipresent, omnipotent and omni-whatever-good.
WRONG!

As far as we humans are concerned, God, by definition, simply has to be the singular living Entity who created this particular universe and thus made our awakening into existence possible.

In other words, qualifying for the title of "God" has nothing whatsoever to do with an Entity's disposition, or whether or not it lives up to some "ideal" notion of what the terms "omni-benevolent" or "omni-good" mean.
­­­­­­_______
Let say, assuming God exists. [Assumption A]

Then I propose,
God by definition has to be omnibenevolent, omniscience, omnipresent, omnipotent and omni-whatever-good.

Yours is an omnipotent God which created the Universe and humans, and thereafter is indifferent to whatever happen.

Obviously in this case, human[s] who have to bear the brunt of such a God's sadistic acts [enable terrible evils and violence, then ran away] has the right to condemn such a God.

Humans has the right to question why such an omnipotent God which could create the whole of the universe and mankind therein but did not ensure there is no continual evils and sufferings to human kind.

Why must humans suffer in silence with acceptance of such a God's will?

This is why humans [theistic and non-theistic] must condemn a God that is not claimed to be omni-whatever-good.

However the more rational humans will obvious question regardless of which God, why there is still a Problem of Evil in reality of untold sufferings to mankind, thus we must question assumption A above.

To me assumption A is a non-starter because it is absolutely certain [apodictic] God is impossible to exists as real.
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Re: Good and evil

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:44 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:55 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 am
Sources?? use your rational thinking!
Holy crap I hope one day U do.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amIf that is the case, then theists who claim their God is omniscient & omni-whatever-good will contrast your only omnipresent and omnipotent God as an ignorant fool relative theirs.
You are talking about mere 'believers' that hope for something that ain't what I have experienced of God. You are clearly mistaking me for someone who gives a flying fuck about what a bunch of bible loving morons think - where they haven't experienced even the WRATH of this entity which might make them second guess all their misguided beliefs about this entity.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amTheists who claim their God is omnibenevolent will insist your only omnipresent and omnipotent God is all evil in contrast to theirs, i.e. with omnipotence and omnipresence to commit the worst evil possible. Your God could possibly be Satan.
Again...SO FUCKING WHAT!? Most THEISTS are MORONS - look at all the evangelical twads spouting their self righteous crap all over the place including this very forum.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amTheists who claim only their God is omni-whatever-good will insist your only omnipresent and omnipotent God is good-for-nothing-else relative to theirs.
Yippy-Skippy - and me and my sage ilk shall continue to laugh at their short of sight smug self indulgent hypocrisy.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amAs such you are opening your God to be condemned as inferior by those who claimed their God as omni-whatever-good.
Again - I don't care.
God is condemned ALL the time by EVANGELISTS that preach HATE - such as God hates abortionists, God hates gays etc..etc.. HE that casts the first stone and all that stuff.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amAs such to avoid your God being condemned as inferior, it only rational that all you need to do is to claim your God is omni-whatever-good thus shutting out any possibility of your God being inferior in comparison to the claim of an omni-whatever-good-God.
WRONG. All I need to do as all the sages do, is LAUGH at their stupidity.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:35 amSo you still insist your God is only omnipresent and omnipotent?
Yep. He may have other traits..I just have no empirical evidence for them.

Comprehende?
It is not only theists who will condemn your God as inferior with contempt.

Any other rational person can made the same comparison and asserted your God is inferior to God-proper.

Reference?
note I quoted St. Anselm.
Descartes made similar claims of an ultimate supreme perfect God.

You can be indifferent to the above but your God is rationally and logically inferior to the omni-whatever-good God.

Btw, the above is only on condition and assumption you claim God exists are real, but in reality it is impossible for a God to be real.
...what part of what you state in relation to you assumptions about what a God should be, amounts to the equivalent of a pile of poo don't you understand?
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bahman
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Re: Good and evil

Post by bahman »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:48 am
bahman wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:34 pm Yes, an evil God is greater in doing evil compared to a good God and vice versa.
Note sure of your point.
What is preferred by humanity is a moral or good God, thus an evil God [no matter how much greater] must be condemned.
Not always, for example, look at racism.
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