Qualia is the only real thing going on here. Everything else is imagined.
Evolution
Re: Evolution
Re: Evolution
Sounds like Mr. Can is clearly describing himself. He described that 'little voice' with the familiarity of someone who knows well how to ignore it. Projecting all of that onto another person is a dishonorable and dishonest charade.Immanuel Can to Scott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:25 pm I do get what's going on with you right now.
When one is feeling cornered, it's easier just to go looking for some grounds you can sell to yourself as "moral outrage," so you can feign righteousnes, storm off, and stop thinking about the dawning realization that you need to shift your basic theory, at least somewhat.
So the ad hominem becomes very attractive as an option. It seems to offer relief from the necessity of decision and revision.
That's because none of us finds it easy to shift a basic theory. It's like having the ground move under one's feet...very unsettling and concerning.
I think you will also find that you are not going to fool the little voice inside you that easily.
It's one thing to point out when people are making deceptive or senseless claims, which I have accused Mr. Can of many times. What Mr. Can does is to claim to know a person's mind -- which is also what the poster 'Age' did a lot of. Such is the ultimate god-wannabe behavior, performed with human-transparency. Whether foolish or rather evil, it demonstrates a twisted potential of man in service to himself.
Re: Evolution
It's really hard to call what's really going on inside the human mind. I have a love hate relationship with humans.
I cannot tell whether I love or hate them.
Do I love myself? Absolutely.
Re: Evolution
What pigs know is about the smell and the dirt. They would do better to study them to the best of their ability.
Re: Evolution
Haven't seen the clip, so can't really comment. My own view is that science is fundamentally about making things work. Yeah you can have all sorts of theories about how or why something works, but we can never know for sure whether our theories are true, or even if they will apply to conditions we encounter or create in the future. Theories don't change what happens; they may well change what we perceive, but that's a different matter. Theism, i.e. 'God done it' is one of those theories that makes no difference to what happens. It's not that the two are mutually exclusive, it's just that theism, however important to some on a personal level, is irrelevant to science.attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:43 pmI watched a bit of U-Tube on the Barker dude.
Seems - everything HAS TO BE TRUE as per Bible or NOT. (hence easy target shooting akin with Dawkins)
Ridiculous.
Hence the ridiculous presumption that it is either SCIENCE or THEISM - the two are mutually exclusive.
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Re: Evolution
Thank you for the compliment...but no, I am not God, and I'm willing to venture that atto, not just IC has some knowing, too.
But epistemology is not ontology. Epistemology (knowing) is derived from ontology (reality). When knowing fails to square with reality, we are speaking of a thing called "error" or "deception," not "truth."
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Re: Evolution
I was off to bed when the ph when zing - uwot quote - boot PC!uwot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:05 pmHaven't seen the clip, so can't really comment. My own view is that science is fundamentally about making things work. Yeah you can have all sorts of theories about how or why something works, but we can never know for sure whether our theories are true, or even if they will apply to conditions we encounter or create in the future. Theories don't change what happens; they may well change what we perceive, but that's a different matter. Theism, i.e. 'God done it' is one of those theories that makes no difference to what happens. It's not that the two are mutually exclusive, it's just that theism, however important to some on a personal level, is irrelevant to science.attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:43 pmI watched a bit of U-Tube on the Barker dude.
Seems - everything HAS TO BE TRUE as per Bible or NOT. (hence easy target shooting akin with Dawkins)
Ridiculous.
Hence the ridiculous presumption that it is either SCIENCE or THEISM - the two are mutually exclusive.
SO.
What is the difference between what we perceive and what we think?Theories don't change what happens; they may well change what we perceive
Theories and Belief - what is the difference?
So theory is the same as belief?Theism, i.e. 'God done it' is one of those theories that makes no difference to what happens.
I tend to disagree. My reasoning is that SCIENCE is the search for truth no matter what - so since we as humanity have in the least conceived of the idea of some 3rd party creation to our reality - it makes sense that science in its search for TRUTH - is open to any conceivable answer thus ALL is relevant.It's not that the two are mutually exclusive, it's just that theism, however important to some on a personal level, is irrelevant to science.
Re: Evolution
When I asked you what the image of God looks like, you said God's image looks like Jesus, the human being.
So I'm now confused that you say you are not God.
Re: Evolution
Immanuel Can, your reply shows either you just don't understand non dualism, or else you pretend not to understand for some odd personal motive.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:07 pmThank you for the compliment...but no, I am not God, and I'm willing to venture that atto, not just IC has some knowing, too.
But epistemology is not ontology. Epistemology (knowing) is derived from ontology (reality). When knowing fails to square with reality, we are speaking of a thing called "error" or "deception," not "truth."
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Re: Evolution
There is no disagreeing with a tautology, IC! Can't you reply to DAM's proposition withImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:39 pmNo, truth is truth...no matter what one thinks one knows.
something more interesting than verbal diarrhoea?
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Re: Evolution
It's not a tautology. It's a claim that "what one thinks or knows" has zero impact on "what is true." Zero.
Re: Evolution
That's better! I agree.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:36 pmIt's not a tautology. It's a claim that "what one thinks or knows" has zero impact on "what is true." Zero.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:33 pmThere is no disagreeing with a tautology.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:39 pm
No, truth is truth...no matter what one thinks one knows.
Next question : Is what is true the same as absolute truth? I don't think it's the same.
What is truecould be anything from the temperature at which water boils ,to what one's pain feels like, to the verdict of a jury, and so forth.
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Re: Evolution
I didn't change the utterance. I just pointed out what it meant.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:40 pmThat's better! I agree.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:36 pmIt's not a tautology. It's a claim that "what one thinks or knows" has zero impact on "what is true." Zero.
It depends on what you mean by "absolute." The word has different meanings. It can mean "ultimate," or "comprehensive," or "total," or a variety of other things, because it is an adjective -- and part of the meaning of an adjective depends on the noun to which it is attached. But in the case of "truth" you could mean any of the above, or none.Next question : Is what is true the same as absolute truth? I don't think it's the same.
Water boils at 100c: that's true, unless the environment is altered, such as by way of air pressure. Pain feels somewhat different to each person, of course: but THAT X or Y "feels pain" is objectively true, as the case may be. The verdict of a jury is only "true" if it conforms to the facts of what happened, and to the objective truth about the value of those actions.What is truecould be anything from the temperature at which water boils ,to what one's pain feels like, to the verdict of a jury, and so forth.