God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:00 pm Justice, on the other hand , is competently addressed by philosophers.
Actually, it's a concept they're all seriously struggling with. Rawls wrote a lot about it, but never solved it. Recent books by people like Sen and Dworkin haven't resolved it. Wolterstorff's treatment is better...but on the whole, it's still a debated concept.

So no, it's not a matter that has been resolved.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:15 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:00 pm Justice, on the other hand , is competently addressed by philosophers.
Actually, it's a concept they're all seriously struggling with. Rawls wrote a lot about it, but never solved it. Recent books by people like Sen and Dworkin haven't resolved it. Wolterstorff's treatment is better...but on the whole, it's still a debated concept.

So no, it's not a matter that has been resolved.
I did not say not was resolved! Stop doing that!
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:21 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:15 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:00 pm Justice, on the other hand , is competently addressed by philosophers.
Actually, it's a concept they're all seriously struggling with. Rawls wrote a lot about it, but never solved it. Recent books by people like Sen and Dworkin haven't resolved it. Wolterstorff's treatment is better...but on the whole, it's still a debated concept.

So no, it's not a matter that has been resolved.
I did not say not was resolved! Stop doing that!
Sorry...what does "competently addressed" mean, in your usage? You mean they just talk about it? Yes, they do...however, with generally inconclusive results.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Dontaskme »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:16 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:56 pm God is both the Absolute , and a person.
It depends on what we mean by "the Absolute." There are "absolute" characteristics that God does not have.

Taoists believe "the Absolute" has to include such things as what we, in the West, would call "evil" or "destruction," or other such negative properties. Theirs is a binary view, in which good and evil are unified in "the Absolute." (Think of the yin-yang: it's darkness and light, but in a single circle, signifying eternality and the Absolute.)

But yes, God is a Person. And like all persons, He has particular intentions, will, characteristics, volition, purposes, identity, moral character, and so on. But each of those excludes the absolute opposite. For example, Scripture says,

"God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)

That's not the yin-yang. It's an "Absolute" of a particular character and nature.



The absolute trying to confine itself to a conceptual format ( aka knowledgable person) would be like light trying to shine on itself.

God is Light and light can only reflect light. In other words, words that are conceptually known in this conception, cannot know.

The 'known' can only be likened to a fictional story.

Nice try Can can't. Your version of God failed again.

.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote:
.what does "competently addressed" mean, in your usage? You mean they just talk about it? Yes, they do...however, with generally inconclusive results.
Words can and do inspire to action. Some poetry is philosophy. Best not to read The Bible like a DIY manual.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:25 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 pm "All creation" contains within it a subset of "personal experience" thus contradicting being as driven by an impersonal force.
God is a contradiction
And contradictions exist....
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8477
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Sculptor »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:47 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:25 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 pm "All creation" contains within it a subset of "personal experience" thus contradicting being as driven by an impersonal force.
God is a contradiction
And contradictions exist....
Probably the dumbest response I've read in a long while.
You might as well say vaccum exists.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:56 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:47 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:25 am
God is a contradiction
And contradictions exist....
Probably the dumbest response I've read in a long while.
You might as well say vaccum exists.
So the contradiction of "2+2=5", as a contradiction, does not exist even though I typed it on a keyboard? It does not exist as a contradiction? It is spelled "vacuum"....and you are the one calling me stupid....
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:01 am Immanuel Can wrote:
.what does "competently addressed" mean, in your usage? You mean they just talk about it? Yes, they do...however, with generally inconclusive results.
Words can and do inspire to action.
You mean that talking about justice makes it happen? Oh, goody. Tell me where that's actually happened.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8477
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Sculptor »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:22 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:56 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:47 pm

And contradictions exist....
Probably the dumbest response I've read in a long while.
You might as well say vaccum exists.
So the contradiction of "2+2=5", as a contradiction, does not exist even though I typed it on a keyboard? It does not exist as a contradiction? It is spelled "vacuum"....and you are the one calling me stupid....
Yes I am.

Oh Look!!! DRAGON.
UNICORN.
Oh my!
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:16 am
Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:01 am Immanuel Can wrote:
.what does "competently addressed" mean, in your usage? You mean they just talk about it? Yes, they do...however, with generally inconclusive results.
Words can and do inspire to action.
You mean that talking about justice makes it happen? Oh, goody. Tell me where that's actually happened.
The parables of Jesus.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:33 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:16 am
Belinda wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:01 am Immanuel Can wrote:



Words can and do inspire to action.
You mean that talking about justice makes it happen? Oh, goody. Tell me where that's actually happened.
The parables of Jesus.
Jesus certainly didn't just "talk." And I don't know if I'd be very optimistic that His teaching and today's Social Justice rhetoric are going to produce a similar effect. But I suppose you can bank on that if you wish.
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:57 pm
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:33 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:16 am
You mean that talking about justice makes it happen? Oh, goody. Tell me where that's actually happened.
The parables of Jesus.
Jesus certainly didn't just "talk." And I don't know if I'd be very optimistic that His teaching and today's Social Justice rhetoric are going to produce a similar effect. But I suppose you can bank on that if you wish.
The ethical system of Jesus of Nazareth can and does stand without miracles as props.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:09 pm The ethical system of Jesus of Nazareth can and does stand without miracles as props.
Explain that.

If Jesus Christ was not God, why are people obligated to follow his moral precepts?

What confers that duty upon them?
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: God as an Impersonal Force is a Contradiction

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:07 pm
Belinda wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:09 pm The ethical system of Jesus of Nazareth can and does stand without miracles as props.
Explain that.

If Jesus Christ was not God, why are people obligated to follow his moral precepts?

What confers that duty upon them?

Jesus taught by his life example and by appeal to reason.
Post Reply