Imperefct God

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

seeds
Posts: 2127
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: Imperefct God

Post by seeds »

Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:03 am
seeds wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:11 pm
Jori wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:07 am But what if the universe was created and "ruled" by a being, not God,. who is imperfect. I mean he doesn't have to be perfect; he just have to be capable enough to create and rule the universe.. Is that possible?
Of course that is possible.

Furthermore, what is it about the universe that implies that its Creator might be "imperfect" in some way?

In other words, what would its Creator have to do to the universe in order to make himself seem more "perfect"?
_______
Show his genocidal ass at the Haigh in handcuff and leg irons. Hopefully with a signed confession and scion ide pill already working.

He is not worth my bullet with his vile name on it.

Regards
DL
How many times do I have to point out that if there is indeed a transcendent Entity that is responsible for the creation of the trillions upon trillions of suns and planets of this universe,...

...then this Entity is as far above humans in scope and consciousness as humans are above amoebas, and bears absolutely no resemblance to the anthropomorphized nonsense that you keep ranting about in your posts.

Normally I would implore you to try and extricate yourself from the delusional bubble in which you are shadow-boxing with a mythological creature, but you seem to be enjoying it far too much to want to quit.

My only question is: why do you focus so intensely on just Yahweh when there are so many other mythological gods you could complain about?

For example, check out this list I collected from a site called "Museum Facts" [bracketed comments mine]:
Museum Facts wrote:
Let’s take a look at the 12 Evil Gods you should steer clear of!

1) Chernobog- the Slavic god of bad fate

2) Set- a murderous evil Egyptian god

3) Sekhmet- the punisher of humankind

4) Hel- the cruel ruler of the Norse Underworld

5) Loviatar- the Finnish god of death and disease

6) Whiro- the embodiment of all evil

7) Apophis- the evil god who embodied chaos [presently reincarnated as Donald Trump]

8] Lamashtu- the evil god who menaced women [again, Donald Trump]

9) Lilith- the demoness who vowed revenge on all men

10) Ahriman- the evil god of strife and disappointment [dang, Trump again]

11) Adro- the evil African deity

12) Nergal- the evil god who killed people on a whim
And that's just a small handful of candidates for you to rail against, never mind the ones in Greek, Roman, Hindu, Japanese, and various other mythologies.

So, again, why focus and expend all of your vitriol and disdain on just poor old mythical Yahweh when there are so many others to choose from?
_______
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 14706
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: Right here, a little less busy.

my god

Post by henry quirk »

Don't forget Crom, on his mountain, indifferent.
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Imperefct God

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:47 am
Greatest I am wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:08 am
It's complicated, but that was it, in a nutshell.
Apologies buddy but you know the Gnostic Christian myth but not the reality...
I have no idea what you are.
"snake" and i go way back to 2009 - when we were both on the "bible-disscussion" forum - now long gone (died in 2017). He is a self proclaimed Gnostic Christian.

when i joined this forum, i found he was here too. - and vise versa i assume.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:47 am But I know what the Gnostic texts say Gnostics think. I have many of them here, on my shelf.
I now know you know.


Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:47 am And I promise you, there is no such thing at all as "Christian Gnosticism," any more than there's "Christian Zoroastrianism,"
sure you can - why can't you?

for example you can be a Hindu-Christian (i.e. the 7 incarnations of God per his sons - Krishna, Rama, and the other 5 - + chrsit, but you cant be a Christian-Hindu for the latter demands that God only had one son and that son is Christ - not Rama nor Krishna nor the other 5.




Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:47 am What there is, is a cultic group who call themselves "Christian Gnostics," and who employ (for their own purposes) motifs and characters borrowed from Christian traditions, but whose beliefs are contrary to everything Christians actually believe. And they have absolutely no justification for using that adjective at all.
yes they were a cult just like the "orthodox" wre a cult at the time no more nor less - at the time there was Zeus as God and his family (GReeks/Romans) and Judaism - which veiwed the "otherodox" Christians as full cult.

pot kettle Sir.

Gostic Christians were no more nor less "cult" than the orthoddox - they just had a differnt view of your christ - others from GReeks to Romans to Jews view both your asses as cults.
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Imperefct God

Post by gaffo »

Belinda wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:01 pm Greatest I Am quoted:
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

This is a claim for idealism(immaterialism) and also for that variety of panpsychism
that claims the existence of absolute mind.
He's quoting from the Gospel of Thomas - pretty sure.

interesting work.

idealism has noting to deo with immatrailism, the latter is doscetism.
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: my god

Post by gaffo »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:16 pm Don't forget Crom, on his mountain, indifferent.
Gnostics ignore Atonement, so the cross is immateril to them. and utterly irrelivent - all they care about is the message their Christ had to those that heard him speak.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Imperefct God

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:00 am He is a self proclaimed Gnostic Christian.
As I say, there's no such thing. He may think there is, but he's just wrong.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:47 am And I promise you, there is no such thing at all as "Christian Gnosticism," any more than there's "Christian Zoroastrianism,"
sure you can - why can't you?
For the reasons I cited. Because Gnosticism and Christianity are utterly incompatible. See below.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:47 am What there is, is a cultic group who call themselves "Christian Gnostics," and who employ (for their own purposes) motifs and characters borrowed from Christian traditions, but whose beliefs are contrary to everything Christians actually believe. And they have absolutely no justification for using that adjective at all.
yes they were a cult
Ignore the word "cult" if you want. It won't change anything. Gnosticism is not at all Christian, and cannot be, regardless of what anybody claims. Anybody who thinks otherwise simply has no idea what a "Christian" is.
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Imperefct God

Post by gaffo »

which leads to an aside - but will mention anyway.

Gosp of Luke is Heresy - since it rejcts the need for the atonement. in his Gospel Satan killed christ and put him on the cross - later God showed his power by ressurecting christ fro mteh cross. so Luke rejects the need for christ to die - he diead bacause Satan killed him and put him on the cross.

the other 2 synopics - Mark and Mattt - affirm the need for Chrsit to die and his daddy put him on the cross fo rthe ake of all others - not satan.

so Gospel of Luke is Heretical.

but i'm just a dumb atheist so what do i know? i know nothing. born to burn forever.
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Imperefct God

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:09 am
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:00 am He is a self proclaimed Gnostic Christian.
As I say, there's no such thing. He may think there is, but he's just wrong.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:47 am And I promise you, there is no such thing at all as "Christian Gnosticism," any more than there's "Christian Zoroastrianism,"
sure you can - why can't you?
For the reasons I cited. Because Gnosticism and Christianity are utterly incompatible. See below.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:47 am What there is, is a cultic group who call themselves "Christian Gnostics," and who employ (for their own purposes) motifs and characters borrowed from Christian traditions, but whose beliefs are contrary to everything Christians actually believe. And they have absolutely no justification for using that adjective at all.
yes they were a cult
Ignore the word "cult" if you want. It won't change anything. Gnosticism is not at all Christian, and cannot be, regardless of what anybody claims. Anybody who thinks otherwise simply has no idea what a "Christian" is.
narrow mind much? like the zoroastrian one to heaven that become razor thin for those walking over it - per their character. when you find yourself dead will Masda make is bridge razor thin or wide as the ocean? only you can know which. just mention.

and no your view is wrong per the Gnostics - there were many Gnostics from Christian to Jewish to polytheistc greek ones - but per the Christian ones they affirm your Christ as theirs, they only did not affirm his need to die nor that He lived in material form on earth.

just becasue they - the christian form of gnostics - did not affirm your view that He had to die and was in body while here - and they did not - does not make them "not" chrsitian".

it does per latter histroy and the now Orthodox viw - but not so back then before there was "correct dogma" of "mother church".


--------and per that dogam and orthodoxy, funny how we ended with Christmas and mother mary - Isis anyone?
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Imperefct God

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:24 am Anybody who thinks otherwise simply has no idea what a "Christian" is.
narrow mind much?

Truth is narrow.

Definitionally, "Gnostic" is not "Christian." It is what it is. You don't have to like it. You just can't change it.
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Imperefct God

Post by gaffo »

noe of my business - but like discussion.

i'd like to ask you a question Sir.


which to you value more what your God (or God's Son) said or that he died for you the Cross.

which morso and why?

-----------if He had never died but said the same stuff as he is siad to have said in the NT - would you have valued Him as much as you do today - i.e. if he leived to be 80.
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Imperefct God

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:27 am
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:24 am Anybody who thinks otherwise simply has no idea what a "Christian" is.
narrow mind much?

Truth is narrow.

Definitionally, "Gnostic" is not "Christian." It is what it is. You don't have to like it. You just can't change it.
nice quip, but willign to expoond upon how Gnotic Christians were not Christians in their own legit way?
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Imperefct God

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:27 am
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:24 am Anybody who thinks otherwise simply has no idea what a "Christian" is.
narrow mind much?

Truth is narrow.
i know noting of Truth, and maybe it is narrow - i hope not.

i hope more so that Mercy is wide.

You?

between the two which do you think your God value more from His creation? to know Truth or to b ignorant of that but have Mercy (and so likewise which do you think your God values more?)


????
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Imperefct God

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:31 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:27 am
Truth is narrow.

Definitionally, "Gnostic" is not "Christian." It is what it is. You don't have to like it. You just can't change it.
nice quip,
It's not a quip. It's a fact.

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Jesus, in Matthew 17:13-14).

"Narrow" is what Jesus promised. The "broad-minded" are on quite a different road.
willign to expoond upon how Gnotic Christians were not Christians in their own legit way?
I did. They steal Christian motifs and names, but use them for purposes and ideas that are totally contrary to Christianity. Christianity is not just any belief; and it's not just what any person wants to make it. It has demands, requirements and terms of its own. It has a particular history, particular ethics, and above all, a specific attitude to who God is and to how one related to Him. Christianity is not something one puts on like a football jersey; it's a total change of being and of mind. It's conviction, repentance faith and salvation, along with a whole lifestyle that follows from that. It's not a fashion show. You don't get to be a Christian just by saying you are.

Those who do not bow to those demands, requirements and terms are simply not what they claim to be -- not real Christians. But I don't expect somebody who's not a Christian to know that, of course. So I'm just telling you how it is.
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Imperefct God

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:39 am
gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:31 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:27 am
Truth is narrow.

Definitionally, "Gnostic" is not "Christian." It is what it is. You don't have to like it. You just can't change it.
nice quip,
It's not a quip. It's a fact.

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Jesus, in Matthew 17:13-14).

"Narrow" is what Jesus promised. The "broad-minded" are on quite a different road.
willign to expoond upon how Gnotic Christians were not Christians in their own legit way?
I did. They steal Christian motifs and names, but use them for purposes and ideas that are totally contrary to Christianity. Christianity is not just any belief; and it's not just what any person wants to make it. It has demands, requirements and terms of its own. It has a particular history, particular ethics, and above all, a specific attitude to who God is and to how one related to Him. Christianity is not something one puts on like a football jersey; it's a total change of being and of mind. It's conviction, repentance faith and salvation, along with a whole lifestyle that follows from that. It's not a fashion show. You don't get to be a Christian just by saying you are.

Those who do not bow to those demands, requirements and terms are simply not what they claim to be -- not real Christians. But I don't expect somebody who's not a Christian to know that, of course. So I'm just telling you how it is.
tanks for the matt quote above - i was thinking of the zoro rel bridg that gets more marrow for the sinner crossing it upon dath....but ok.

per your latter ok.

IMO i'm into pigieonholing -d ewfinition. so to me to be a Chrsitian measn to "Affirm Jesus is God's Son. and nothing more.

but thank for reply.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Imperefct God

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:53 am to me to be a Chrsitian measn to "Affirm Jesus is God's Son. and nothing more.
No, that's not nearly enough. For one can be totally certain that Jesus is God's Son, and yet hate Him, or ignore Him, or do none of the things He says those who love Him ought to do. As He Himself asked the Pharisees, “Now why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46)
Post Reply