Imperefct God

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

jayjacobus
Posts: 1273
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: Imperefct God

Post by jayjacobus »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:07 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:21 am
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:44 pm UU churches attract people who seek truth and goodness without being willing to accept other people's ideas until they have had a long think about them.

Admittedly my experience with 'em is limited, but I found 'em short-sighted, grasping, and needy.


By contrast conventionally Xian churches tend to attract people who are either unaware they can think for themselves or are unwilling to do so.

Most of the pentecostals I've met are exactly like that. Not so much with, for example, the catholics. Nondenominationals in particular are a defiant bunch, clannish mebbe, but feisty...not followers-types.
It may be coincidence, but every Catholic person I have known, perhaps about ten individuals, has been kind, open- minded, and easy to be friends with.

The Unitarian church I attended had a mixture of people quite a few of whom had problems it is true. I guess that everyone has suffered some more so than others obviously. *Perhaps , Henry, you did not expect people to talk openly about their neuroses? I appreciate that you search and don't dismiss your own experiences.
*Well, that's the thing with the particular UU congregation I associated with, B: they didn't just talk about their neuroses, they indulged 'em. They fed their neuroses like pet cats then complained the pussy was too fat.

You can insult one of my friends, but do you expect me to be an advocate for your fat pussy ?
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 9939
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Imperefct God

Post by attofishpi »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:07 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:21 am

It may be coincidence, but every Catholic person I have known, perhaps about ten individuals, has been kind, open- minded, and easy to be friends with.

The Unitarian church I attended had a mixture of people quite a few of whom had problems it is true. I guess that everyone has suffered some more so than others obviously. *Perhaps , Henry, you did not expect people to talk openly about their neuroses? I appreciate that you search and don't dismiss your own experiences.
UU churches attract people who seek truth and goodness without being willing to accept other people's ideas until they have had a long think about them.

Admittedly my experience with 'em is limited, but I found 'em short-sighted, grasping, and needy.


By contrast conventionally Xian churches tend to attract people who are either unaware they can think for themselves or are unwilling to do so.

Most of the pentecostals I've met are exactly like that. Not so much with, for example, the catholics. Nondenominationals in particular are a defiant bunch, clannish mebbe, but feisty...not followers-types.
I was incarnated into Catholicism, probably because of my father - who is now a short sighted atheist.

I really relish what I was taught through that school system - it was extremely focused on that golden rule thang. And, yeah, love the churches built over time, with the stained glass windows etc..

These big stadiums housing morons speaking in 'tongues' etc.. I find extremely ridiculous - they have some pastor = rot_sap preaching evangelical bollocks to brain numbed morons...and what are they to these people? They appear to be celebrities 'STARS' with answers!!? FFS.

A church is made of cold hard stone by craftsmen of the ages...not auditoriums for star preachers with big shiny teeth, suits, ties and smiles like the joker.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Imperefct God

Post by Immanuel Can »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:09 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:24 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:34 am
I have every freedom and right that I choose to defend or demand
Yes, that's a marvelous example of what I said above: asserting a right by way of nothing more than wishing it were so. So let me ask you the child's question: *"What gives you that 'right'?"
*My answer, when I was an atheist and nihilistic: might.
Yep.

That's what Nietzsche said, really. He thought that "will to power" was the only force behind all morality, including rights. The rest, he would have said, was not just window-dressing but an actual distraction from the secret truth that everything was a battle for power.

Nietzsche, of course, died as a relatively young man. He never had to face the fact of his own declining power...until he went nuts, and then he couldn't have done so if he wanted to. That "power" is everything is just the kind of conceit a young man is prone to believe. But what makes it easy is ego; and, for anybody who has a lick of sense, age takes that out of you. You realize that "power" is not a permanent acquisition, and that the "power" view turns everything into a game we're all eventually bound to end up losing.

So then, if "power" or "might" is behind rights, we only have as much of them or as little of them, and only for as long, as our personal power can provide. After that (or before), it's just "Hard luck, Charlie."
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 14706
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: Right here, a little less busy.

Re: Imperefct God

Post by henry quirk »

jayjacobus wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:18 pm
henry quirk wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:07 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:21 am

It may be coincidence, but every Catholic person I have known, perhaps about ten individuals, has been kind, open- minded, and easy to be friends with.

The Unitarian church I attended had a mixture of people quite a few of whom had problems it is true. I guess that everyone has suffered some more so than others obviously. *Perhaps , Henry, you did not expect people to talk openly about their neuroses? I appreciate that you search and don't dismiss your own experiences.
*Well, that's the thing with the particular UU congregation I associated with, B: they didn't just talk about their neuroses, they indulged 'em. They fed their neuroses like pet cats then complained the pussy was too fat.

You can insult one of my friends, but do you expect me to be an advocate for your fat pussy ?
❓
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 14706
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: Right here, a little less busy.

Re: Imperefct God

Post by henry quirk »

attofishpi wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:33 pm
henry quirk wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:07 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:21 am

It may be coincidence, but every Catholic person I have known, perhaps about ten individuals, has been kind, open- minded, and easy to be friends with.

The Unitarian church I attended had a mixture of people quite a few of whom had problems it is true. I guess that everyone has suffered some more so than others obviously. *Perhaps , Henry, you did not expect people to talk openly about their neuroses? I appreciate that you search and don't dismiss your own experiences.
UU churches attract people who seek truth and goodness without being willing to accept other people's ideas until they have had a long think about them.

Admittedly my experience with 'em is limited, but I found 'em short-sighted, grasping, and needy.


By contrast conventionally Xian churches tend to attract people who are either unaware they can think for themselves or are unwilling to do so.

Most of the pentecostals I've met are exactly like that. Not so much with, for example, the catholics. Nondenominationals in particular are a defiant bunch, clannish mebbe, but feisty...not followers-types.
I was incarnated into Catholicism, probably because of my father - who is now a short sighted atheist.

I really relish what I was taught through that school system - it was extremely focused on that golden rule thang. And, yeah, love the churches built over time, with the stained glass windows etc..

These big stadiums housing morons speaking in 'tongues' etc.. I find extremely ridiculous - they have some pastor = rot_sap preaching evangelical bollocks to brain numbed morons...and what are they to these people? They appear to be celebrities 'STARS' with answers!!? FFS.

A church is made of cold hard stone by craftsmen of the ages...not auditoriums for star preachers with big shiny teeth, suits, ties and smiles like the joker.
I was raised catholic, still have a fondness for the church. I still attend christmas mass (not last year, of course, cuz BEER VIRUS). The catechism is not a bad thing.
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 9939
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Imperefct God

Post by attofishpi »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:24 pm
attofishpi wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:33 pm
henry quirk wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:07 pm
UU churches attract people who seek truth and goodness without being willing to accept other people's ideas until they have had a long think about them.

Admittedly my experience with 'em is limited, but I found 'em short-sighted, grasping, and needy.


By contrast conventionally Xian churches tend to attract people who are either unaware they can think for themselves or are unwilling to do so.

Most of the pentecostals I've met are exactly like that. Not so much with, for example, the catholics. Nondenominationals in particular are a defiant bunch, clannish mebbe, but feisty...not followers-types.
I was incarnated into Catholicism, probably because of my father - who is now a short sighted atheist.

I really relish what I was taught through that school system - it was extremely focused on that golden rule thang. And, yeah, love the churches built over time, with the stained glass windows etc..

These big stadiums housing morons speaking in 'tongues' etc.. I find extremely ridiculous - they have some pastor = rot_sap preaching evangelical bollocks to brain numbed morons...and what are they to these people? They appear to be celebrities 'STARS' with answers!!? FFS.

A church is made of cold hard stone by craftsmen of the ages...not auditoriums for star preachers with big shiny teeth, suits, ties and smiles like the joker.
I was raised catholic, still have a fondness for the church. I still attend christmas mass (not last year, of course, cuz BEER VIRUS). The catechism is not a bad thing.
*: )
Dubious
Posts: 3987
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Imperfect God

Post by Dubious »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:03 pm
henry quirk wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:09 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:24 pm
Yes, that's a marvelous example of what I said above: asserting a right by way of nothing more than wishing it were so. So let me ask you the child's question: *"What gives you that 'right'?"
*My answer, when I was an atheist and nihilistic: might.
Yep.

That's what Nietzsche said, really. He thought that "will to power" was the only force behind all morality, including rights. The rest, he would have said, was not just window-dressing but an actual distraction from the secret truth that everything was a battle for power.

Nietzsche, of course, died as a relatively young man. He never had to face the fact of his own declining power...until he went nuts, and then he couldn't have done so if he wanted to. That "power" is everything is just the kind of conceit a young man is prone to believe. But what makes it easy is ego; and, for anybody who has a lick of sense, age takes that out of you. You realize that "power" is not a permanent acquisition, and that the "power" view turns everything into a game we're all eventually bound to end up losing.

So then, if "power" or "might" is behind rights, we only have as much of them or as little of them, and only for as long, as our personal power can provide. After that (or before), it's just "Hard luck, Charlie."
Nietzsche's interpretation of power is far more complex than a simple-minded theist can ever hope to understand - one who believes Jesus is going to save him and that only belief in Jesus is required for that purpose...something we used to be told in grade school!

Power is inherent in everything, good and bad...a permanent condition of existence. Without that nature wouldn't exist, humans wouldn't exist, nothing would exist! There is also the insidious power of belief in its complete acceptance of the irrational, the fantastical! Your mind, for instance, could never accept as real an old worn-out story which wasn't even new when Jesus was alive if that weren't true.

Each time you mention Nietzsche, you prove your ignorance of what he actually said or intentionally distort - even having affirmed he was anti-Semitic! But this, as most already know, has always been your main method of corrupting a debate in addition to ignoring questions you find inconvenient to respond to. Keep on with your sickly innuendos against him. He certainly isn't threatened by any intelligence such as yours.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Imperfect God

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dubious wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:08 am Nietzsche's interpretation of power is far more complex ...
I'm not trying to exhaust Nietzsche here. I'm just summarizing, so take a pill.
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 14706
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: Right here, a little less busy.

Re: Imperefct God

Post by henry quirk »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:03 pm
I think, while might does not make right, it can sure as hell help secure right.
Dubious
Posts: 3987
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Imperfect God

Post by Dubious »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:52 am
Dubious wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:08 am Nietzsche's interpretation of power is far more complex ...
I'm not trying to exhaust Nietzsche here. I'm just summarizing, so take a pill.
As usual, your summary is screwed.
Dubious
Posts: 3987
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Imperefct God

Post by Dubious »

Quote: Nietzsche...


“However modest one may be in one's demand for intellectual cleanliness, one cannot help feeling, when coming into contact with the New Testament, a kind of inexpressible discomfiture: for the unchecked impudence with which the least qualified want to raise their voice on the greatest problems, and even claim to be judges of things, surpasses all measure. The shameless levity with which the most intractable problems (life, world, God, purpose of life) are spoken of, as if they were not problems at all but simply things that these little bigots KNEW!”

― Friedrich Nietzsche, The Will to Power
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Imperefct God

Post by Immanuel Can »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:16 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:03 pm
I think, while might does not make right, it can sure as hell help secure right.
De facto, yes. The strongest always wins.

But that is something quite different from a "right." In fact, "rights" talk doesn't usually even appear until those "rights" are being refused by a stronger power. "Rights" are claims made over and against power, rather than just a pointing out of who has the upper hand for the moment.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22140
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Imperfect God

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dubious wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:31 am As usual, your summary is screwed.
Well, we'll see. For now, you're not saying anything I find even remotely interesting.

Nietzsche spent his life being wrong. He ended it very badly, but in just the way you expect of such a man. And now he knows just how wrong he was...as will you, one day, one way or another.

Look to it.
Dubious
Posts: 3987
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Imperfect God

Post by Dubious »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:31 am Nietzsche spent his life being wrong.
That's what any demented theist would like to think after N explicitly stated that god is dead. Of course he wasn't referring to any real god; just the one whose name was mentioned for 2000 years but never before since he didn't exist before. In short, he declared the belief dead, not God...wherever it may or may not be; a very fundamental difference you never managed to grasp: belief in god is not the same as god existing! Those who think it is, proves that the bible, in the wrong hands, is an instrument of brain damage.
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:31 amHe ended it very badly...
No, he didn't end it and god didn't end it, just like those who have brain cancer don't end it as if it were voluntary.
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:31 am...but in just the way you expect of such a man.
Is that also true for those who suffered the way N did, firmly believing in Jesus the while? Why would he allow them to end that way or linger in a state of mental annihilation? Clearly, Jesus hasn't yet acknowledged any difference between believers and those who refrain! Any explanation for this palpable indifference on the part of Jesus??
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:31 amAnd now he knows just how wrong he was...
No he doesn't! He's dead and could never have imagined how mostly right he was.
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:31 am...as will you, one day, one way or another.
You're sure of that, are you! If there were the kind of Jesus you expect to determine in a final showdown whether they believed in him, I would find him thoroughly despicable if he opened the gates to such as you. It wouldn't have taken much to qualify in any event if the measure is simply to believe! But what about those who believe in Brahma or Krishna instead? Come up with any answers yet??
Belinda
Posts: 8030
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Imperefct God

Post by Belinda »

Dubious wrote:
You're sure of that, are you! If there were the kind of Jesus you expect to determine in a final showdown whether they believed in him, I would find him thoroughly despicable if he opened the gates to such as you. It wouldn't have taken much to qualify in any event if the measure is simply to believe! But what about those who believe in Brahma or Krishna instead? Come up with any answers yet??
Jesus of Nazareth was probably a real individual, a Palestinian Jew: Christ is a mythical individual who is credited with supernatural powers.Jesus, and Christ are not the same person.

Most people don't believe there are supernatural persons.Therefore Christianity needs to be reformed for modern usage. The God Who is dead (Nietzsche) was a supernatural authority, and people nowadays resist authority and prefer to a) think for themselves and b) be ruled democratically. We are all post-Nietzscheans.
Post Reply