Religion is Man- Made

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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attofishpi
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

Post by attofishpi »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:46 am
attofishpi wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:36 am
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:52 am Until religious thinkers are able to explain in detail .... what exactly and precisely is being suggested in the following statement ...bolded here > Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

Until they explain this statement fully so that it is understood by everyone in a way that 2 + 2 = 4 is understood by everyone. Then they're just empty meaningless words.
Oh, well then allow me to have a crack.

Apart from the obvious in that statement, that at one point Jesus is talking to a 'her' and then stating 'he'. Let's assume wo/man are in the same league with ref to the 'he that believeth in me'.

We are all resurrected - hence "though he were dead" - answer 1.
"yet shall he live" := as in right now, you and I were once dead, but have been resurrected -hence, yet we live. - answer 2.
..and us that are alive, and have the sentience and intelligence to believe in this man Jesus (that went to his death stating he is the son of God, inspiring people to have faith in love and resurrection)
"shall never die" - ergo - become a SAGE - don't keep dying and having ALL your previous knowledge wiped clean to be reborn EVERY time, to learn the hard way, ALL over again, and again etc.. - answer 3.

Comprehende?
You're explanations have failed.
..well of course an intelligent explanation will fail on someone that thinks a pig is as intelligent as a human. :twisted:


Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:46 amBut then I never expected anything more than utter BS from someone like you.
BS means Brain Storm right?


Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:46 amSomeone like you is just parroting what someone else has believed.
No. It is what a sage taught me, and I don't think he merely believed.


Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:46 amMaybe you have tweaked the story to fit your own personal model to suit your own preferences, but it's all just more of the same BS, but thanks for the effort. :D

Oh, you are welcome - but please don't expect me to keep wasting my time on the likes of pathetic thread spamming attention seeking morons like you - you haven't the intelligence required to COMPREHEND.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

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Dubious wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:27 am ...there's something about this statement which doesn't sound right! If it was meant as a mild form of sarcasm then congrats...at least there's someone who understands something of the art.
I confess, something I'm not prone to do, but will when there's no evading it and I've already been caught out. I misjudged your ability to detect the irony, I'm pleased to discover.
Dubious wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:27 am But anyway, I wish for neither of these opposites. The neutrality of oblivion suits me just fine. It's where I came from and while there, had no reason to complain...not even once! I have no objection to being home once again.
Of course. I was nothing before I was born; dying is merely reverting to what I was before I was born. I love life, it's all there is worth living for, but you only get one shot at it. Only a fool or idiot would consent to do it more than once.
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

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RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:11 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:27 am ...there's something about this statement which doesn't sound right! If it was meant as a mild form of sarcasm then congrats...at least there's someone who understands something of the art.
I confess, something I'm not prone to do, but will when there's no evading it and I've already been caught out. I misjudged your ability to detect the irony, I'm pleased to discover.
Dubious wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:27 am But anyway, I wish for neither of these opposites. The neutrality of oblivion suits me just fine. It's where I came from and while there, had no reason to complain...not even once! I have no objection to being home once again.
Of course. I was nothing before I was born; dying is merely reverting to what I was before I was born. I love life, it's all there is worth living for, but you only get one shot at it. Only a fool or idiot would consent to do it more than once.
I do not think that your consent is required if you live again.
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:25 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:56 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:55 am

:lol: Got to admire their optimism though.

The Musks, and the Branson's to name but a few, are just Boys with new Toys. Money is cheap.
Toys is right.
Since the high spot in human space exploration Apollo 11-17 we'd been promised Moon bases, orbital hotels and lunar tourism by the year 2001.
None of this happened. If it had been economically viable it would have happened. It turns out that manned space flight is a lot more difficult and expensive. - and dangerous
The other thing is that there is very little point.
Whilst Elon Musk tries to "get his life in perspective" by visiting space, he might be better off visiting a children's hospital or food bank.
“Soon you'll be ashes or bones. A mere name at most - and even that is just a sound, an echo. The things we want in life are empty, stale, trivial.”
Marcus Aurelius


Life is the enemy..first it imprisons you then it kills you.

Image
Without your life it would be impossible for you to express the thought "Life is the enemy..first it imprisons you then it kills you." You are a unique centre of experience and without you the universe would not be universal.
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

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jayjacobus wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:33 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:11 am
Dubious wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:27 am ...there's something about this statement which doesn't sound right! If it was meant as a mild form of sarcasm then congrats...at least there's someone who understands something of the art.
I confess, something I'm not prone to do, but will when there's no evading it and I've already been caught out. I misjudged your ability to detect the irony, I'm pleased to discover.
Dubious wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:27 am But anyway, I wish for neither of these opposites. The neutrality of oblivion suits me just fine. It's where I came from and while there, had no reason to complain...not even once! I have no objection to being home once again.
Of course. I was nothing before I was born; dying is merely reverting to what I was before I was born. I love life, it's all there is worth living for, but you only get one shot at it. Only a fool or idiot would consent to do it more than once.
I do not think that your consent is required if you live again.
Then think again.
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

Post by jayjacobus »

RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:05 pm
jayjacobus wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:33 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:11 am
I confess, something I'm not prone to do, but will when there's no evading it and I've already been caught out. I misjudged your ability to detect the irony, I'm pleased to discover.

Of course. I was nothing before I was born; dying is merely reverting to what I was before I was born. I love life, it's all there is worth living for, but you only get one shot at it. Only a fool or idiot would consent to do it more than once.
I do not think that your consent is required if you live again.
Then think again.
You love life but don't want to live again.

Do you see a contradiction in what you write?
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

Post by Sculptor »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:03 am
Sculptor wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:20 pm Why pesimistic?
Because you brought the idea to the table, not me.

I was only expressing the truth of reality. As I always do
:lol: because you are the only oen who knows what reality is? :lol:
What you might like to consider is that when you express an opinion you are acting subjectively. That is far remived from most versions of reality.
. Being aware of what's really going on here, doesn't mean there is no enjoyment in life to be experienced because obviously there is. I personally just happen to be aware of what's really happening here,
It's a laugh a minute reading this.
I'm under no illusion that life for any sentient creature is a winning game. I'm not afraid to say that out loud. I see both sides of reality,
The more you use the word reality the more absurd you sound.
...the worse that can happen and the very best that can happen. But what ever happens. We're all basically screwed,
and you call ME pesimistic!!!
..no one gets out of here alive. I make no apologies for that statement. I welcome all sides of reality simply because I understand that no one alive has ever chosen to be born, the choice has been made for them. People are forced into a world they did not consent to, they have no other choice but to endure it. Or they can terminate their life, and that would be like switching off the electricity supply to the TV...the picture disappears. It's the same for consciousness. Conscious sentient organisms are like the images on the TV. They're either animated, or they are switched off.

Also, committing suicide is a grotesque form of intentional violence to yourself. It's not a natural law. The sole purpose of any living organism is to survive. That's what evolution does, it's an out of control mass of self replicating dna molecules.
Fuck that You are just a barrel of contradictions.
"natural law" what a joke. Look up naturalistic fallacy. We have no purpose except for that which we choose for ourselves.
Since when do I have to obey a string of molecules?
DAM:

My life is perfectly on track, it's always been heading in the right direction, always steering me right where I want to go. Guess I'm just one of the lucky ones who is aware of this truth.
Sculptor wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:20 pmOh how perfect of you! Have you ever heard of hybris?
Never heard of hybris no. What is it?
look it up.
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

Post by RCSaunders »

jayjacobus wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:28 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:05 pm
jayjacobus wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:33 pm

I do not think that your consent is required if you live again.
Then think again.
You love life but don't want to live again.

Do you see a contradiction in what you write?
Not at all. There is something insidiously evil about desiring the untrue or impossible. It is a foundation of all mystic ideologies and Utopian social/political views. I love real life which is worth making every effort to make the most of, which more than fulfills any possible desire for what life is and can be. Only those who know they have completely failed in living the one life they have long for another one.
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

Post by Dubious »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:52 amThe problem with religious thinkers, is that they believe in some kind of '' eternal life '' ...whatever that is supposed to mean, god only knows...but imagine living forever. Now, the very idea of living forever would be in my personal opinion, my worse nightmare come true ever.
The horror of eternity would be the same for everyone, including those who wish or claim it as reward. If eternal life were possible, we'd eventually be miserable that there isn't anything beyond it. Is this really it! Same old, same old. There's not a lot of variety available when granted an endless existence! Eternal Recurrence becomes a fact of life when living eternally! How many times can one go to the Jesus church without going insane? :lol: :twisted:

Of course, what I wrote sounds absurd only because any notion of eternal life is the kind of absurdity which can't be explained any other way except by absurdity.

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:52 amUntil religious thinkers are able to explain in detail .... what exactly and precisely is being suggested in the following statement ...bolded here > Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
There must be a number of ways to interpret it; personally, I don't care for any of them. The question, for me, defaults to why would a so-called god demand such unquestionable belief from a human. In spite of the high falutin profundity of expression, it comes across as pathetic that god would make that kind of request. Is god afraid of disappearing if belief is withdrawn! It's as if eternal life is promised in exchange for your belief...a quid pro quo deal. What specifically am I supposed to believe when Jesus says "he that believeth in me". It's all a very human story. The preachers of old didn't talk the way preachers do now...which is the only difference.

Actually, this demand, it seems to me, has a lot in common with the medieval Faust story. Mephistopheles offers Faust all the worldly pleasures and power he could desire in exchange for a minor trinket called his soul. What a deal for Faust, as Mephistopheles explains! The only difference between that and believe in me, is in the immediate reward once the papers are signed.
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

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Dubious thanks for your responses. You appear to be the only responder here on this thread topic that can flow coherently with the discussion. Most responders here prefer to swim against the current adding their own jumbled-up misguided ideas that have nothing to do with what's actually being discussed here.

Anyways...absurd is the word..The mind of man does apparently lean heavily toward bolstering it's delusional stance and it's illusory persona with the idea that there is something bigger and better than itself. Even forming alliances with those predisposed to the same delusions as themselves.

Ultimately all personal gods emerge and live in the hominid brain. Only a few intelligent people are able to step back to a far more open flowing place just outside the fetid little stagnant pools to which the mind of the religious man gravitates in his arrogant and self-righteous bid to keep the sense of self securely centred in it's inferiority.

It's absurd beyond all reason. The thinking sentient organism is where imagination knows no limits. Pushing for or against ideas with the same amount of fervor as any other fanatic preacher. It's what we like to do. Only made possible through our use of language which is just empty sound heard as words believed to be real.



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Re: Religion is Man- Made

Post by Dubious »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:02 am
Anyways...absurd is the word..The mind of man does apparently lean heavily toward bolstering it's delusional stance and it's illusory persona with the idea that there is something bigger and better than itself. Even forming alliances with those predisposed to the same delusions as themselves.

Ultimately all personal gods emerge and live in the hominid brain. Only a few intelligent people are able to step back to a far more open flowing place just outside the fetid little stagnant pools to which the mind of the religious man gravitates in his arrogant and self-righteous bid to keep the sense of self securely centred in it's inferiority.

It's absurd beyond all reason. The thinking sentient organism is where imagination knows no limits. Pushing for or against ideas with the same amount of fervor as any other fanatic preacher. It's what we like to do. Only made possible through our use of language which is just empty sound heard as words believed to be real.
Well put! When you say, Even forming alliances with those predisposed to the same delusions as themselves, that's how religion, cults and perverse forms of group think are made, meaning, within those domains of irrationality, where, as you say, imagination knows no limits. Nothing is allowed to enter that would falsify it. In a way, it's almost logical since a belief, as such, has no other means of defence than to react against that which negates it as a viral invasion. Every belief, contains its own antibodies forcing resistance against reason and logic or any of its variants. That's why it's always been so impossible to argue with any true believer.

All these idiotic beliefs and conspiracy theories makes one wonder what's human any more besides some being bloody dangerous! It appears we now have more of those than ever before! :evil:
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

Post by Dontaskme »

Dubious wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:22 am
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:02 am
Anyways...absurd is the word..The mind of man does apparently lean heavily toward bolstering it's delusional stance and it's illusory persona with the idea that there is something bigger and better than itself. Even forming alliances with those predisposed to the same delusions as themselves.

Ultimately all personal gods emerge and live in the hominid brain. Only a few intelligent people are able to step back to a far more open flowing place just outside the fetid little stagnant pools to which the mind of the religious man gravitates in his arrogant and self-righteous bid to keep the sense of self securely centred in it's inferiority.

It's absurd beyond all reason. The thinking sentient organism is where imagination knows no limits. Pushing for or against ideas with the same amount of fervor as any other fanatic preacher. It's what we like to do. Only made possible through our use of language which is just empty sound heard as words believed to be real.
Well put! When you say, Even forming alliances with those predisposed to the same delusions as themselves, that's how religion, cults and perverse forms of group think are made, meaning, within those domains of irrationality, where, as you say, imagination knows no limits. Nothing is allowed to enter that would falsify it. In a way, it's almost logical since a belief, as such, has no other means of defence than to react against that which negates it as a viral invasion. Every belief, contains its own antibodies forcing resistance against reason and logic or any of its variants. That's why it's always been so impossible to argue with any true believer.

All these idiotic beliefs and conspiracy theories makes one wonder what's human any more besides some being bloody dangerous! It appears we now have more of those than ever before! :evil:
Well said.

People are dangerous, a danger not only to the planet, but the planets entire collection of sentient and non-sentient inhabitants. But most disturbing of all, they are a danger to themselves. All in all, it does not take a genius to work out the greatest realisation that can be reached through the mental realm known as the acquisition knowledge. The realisation that the birth of the universe really had no intelligent intention to be anything other than a mindless, senseless, meat grinding machine, a world rife with unimaginable cruelty, chaos and destruction. That German philosoper Friedrich Nietzsche was one of the very few people of the times who could recognise the evil. While others would just deny it's presence for the reward their God beliefs would bring, namely, solace and comfort.


Philosophers have always desired to understand their place in the universe since the dawn of their capacity to communicate with each other via language. Their understanding however is endless, which can only lead one to that which is beginningless.

So understanding is a treadmill to nowhere, hence why the whole entire God Story is a popular belief. The believer is in denial that there is absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of their God's origin, or of their own origin. In others words, human's are really as dumb as they get. Personally I believe Friedrich Nietzsche had no use for humanity after witnessing the evil they could inflict not just upon themselves but also upon the non-talking noble sentient creatures among us, namely animals.


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Re: Religion is Man- Made

Post by attofishpi »

RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:14 pm Of course. I was nothing before I was born; dying is merely reverting to what I was before I was born.
You do realise that dying is a verb - in other words you are stating that you were dying prior to being born. Thus, suggesting you were reborn.

RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:14 pmI love life, it's all there is worth living for, but you only get one shot at it.
Just how much beyond me do you understand about the nature of the reality, indeed physics at its sub-atomic scale - to be certain of that?

RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:14 pmOnly a fool or idiot would consent to do it more than once.
Why? You just stated that you love life. For what reason would one be a fool or an idiot if given the choice, to live life again?
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

Post by RCSaunders »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:07 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:14 pm Of course. I was nothing before I was born; dying is merely reverting to what I was before I was born.
You do realise that dying is a verb - in other words you are stating that you were dying prior to being born. Thus, suggesting you were reborn.
Is English not your first language? "Dying," is not a verb, it is a gerund, that is, a verb form used as a noun. "Reverting," is another gerund. The semicolon makes the two clauses balanced and essentially says the action identified by the gerund, "dying," is the same as the action identified by the gerund, "reverting," but the action is the whole gerund phrase, "reverting to what I was before I was born." You are welcome for that free English lesson.
attofishpi wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:07 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:14 pmI love life, it's all there is worth living for, but you only get one shot at it.
Just how much beyond me do you understand about the nature of the reality, indeed physics at its sub-atomic scale - to be certain of that?
Certain of what? Since there is virtually no evidence whatsoever or anything else, why would I doubt it?
attofishpi wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:07 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:14 pmOnly a fool or idiot would consent to do it more than once.
Why? You just stated that you love life. For what reason would one be a fool or an idiot if given the choice, to live life again?
I already answered that question:
There is something insidiously evil about desiring the untrue or impossible. It is a foundation of all mystic ideologies and Utopian social/political views. I love real life which is worth making every effort to make the most of, which more than fulfills any possible desire for what life is and can be. Only those who know they have completely failed in living the one life they have long for another one.
It's similar to the mistake G. B. Shaw referred to about those who love women wine:
He who desires a lifetime of happiness with a beautiful woman desires to enjoy the taste of wine by keeping his mouth always full of it.
The most intolerable pain is produced by prolonging the keenest pleasure.
Those who have lived and fully enjoyed their life could never be but dissappointed in another. Dostoeveksy's hero asks at the end of, "White Nights," "My God, on moment of ecstasy, why is that not enough for a life time?" The answer is, it is.
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Re: Religion is Man- Made

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RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:14 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:07 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:14 pm Of course. I was nothing before I was born; dying is merely reverting to what I was before I was born.
You do realise that dying is a verb - in other words you are stating that you were dying prior to being born. Thus, suggesting you were reborn.
Is English not your first language?
Obviously, Mercurian is my prime langauge.
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:46 pm"Dying," is not a verb, it is a gerund, that is, a verb form used as a noun. "Reverting," is another gerund. The semicolon makes the two clauses balanced and essentially says the action identified by the gerund, "dying," is the same as the action identified by the gerund, "reverting," but the action is the whole gerund phrase, "reverting to what I was before I was born." You are welcome for that free English lesson.
Thank u so much.

RCSaunders wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:46 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:07 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:14 pmI love life, it's all there is worth living for, but you only get one shot at it.
Just how much beyond me do you understand about the nature of the reality, indeed physics at its sub-atomic scale - to be certain of that?
Certain of what? Since there is virtually no evidence whatsoever or anything else, why would I doubt it?
Well, Einstein was at the least perplexed by it at the quantum level – quantum entanglement for example. What intrigues me is comments from the likes of yourself that appears certain that the death of the body we inhabit denotes the death of any potential for further consciousness especially where the realm of sub-atomic reality appears to be beyond your thought. I think it was the physcist Sean Caroll that stated that if ANYONE states they understand quantum physics, they are lying.

To what degree of certainty do you place that you were never alive prior to you current existence?

RCSaunders wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:46 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:07 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:14 pmOnly a fool or idiot would consent to do it more than once.
Why? You just stated that you love life. For what reason would one be a fool or an idiot if given the choice, to live life again?
I already answered that question:
There is something insidiously evil about desiring the untrue or impossible. It is a foundation of all mystic ideologies and Utopian social/political views. I love real life which is worth making every effort to make the most of, which more than fulfills any possible desire for what life is and can be. Only those who know they have completely failed in living the one life they have long for another one.
It's similar to the mistake G. B. Shaw referred to about those who love women wine:
He who desires a lifetime of happiness with a beautiful woman desires to enjoy the taste of wine by keeping his mouth always full of it.
The most intolerable pain is produced by prolonging the keenest pleasure.
Those who have lived and fully enjoyed their life could never be but dissappointed in another. Dostoeveksy's hero asks at the end of, "White Nights," "My God, on moment of ecstasy, why is that not enough for a life time?" The answer is, it is.
It never ceases to amaze and indeed bore me, when people of some acedemia rely on others’ thoughts to address or at least attempt to support their own.

I have fought for my life, and now I embrace the sip of a nice wine, or the embrace of a charming lady.

As far as I am concerned, you still have not addressed Y you would prefer to be dead for the rest of eternity rather than have such an experience again.
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