So you're still insisting all the victims of the Holocaust "chose" or "did" something that caused their suffering and murder?RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:19 amNo one can, "explain," why others choose or do what they do,Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:56 pmSo back to the case of the Holocaust, and the other people Hitler murdered: can you explain what all these dissenters, the handicapped, Gypsies, Jews, and others "chose" and "did" with their own lives that issued in that "consequence"?RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:51 pm Whatever suffering there is in the world is only the just consequence of what those who suffer have chosen and done with there own lives.
I never said they are not, "evil," in the sense that individuals suffer from then, because they do. [/quote]Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:56 pmI agree with those who see such things as evil and unjust. I marvel that you say you do not.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:51 pm It is you who judges those things as evil. I do not judge them at all, because they are justice.
But how do you derive the epithet "evil" from a worldview that says that consequences are all just "reality," just the automatic results?
I don't think that's how the victims think about it. I don't think they had to consult an "authority" to feel that they were being treated in a way that their actions never merited. Most people have a sense of injustice that is quite instinctive. You won't find many people who have no sense of injustice....unless you regard, "justice," as some way you'd like things to be or something dictated by some authority.
One can "feel" pain. That doesn't mean the pain isn't real, or something isn't wrong. The important question is not whether or not one can "feel" a thing: it's whether or not the "feeling" corresponds to an objective truth or not.You think injustice is something one, "feels?"
Apparently not. What you must imagine you see is just "reality."I see injustice every day.
Why?Whenever some human being uses force, or the threat of it, against others, especially to enforce, "laws," that is injustice.
Isn't that also just "reality"? Don't people do those things to others all the time? What "authority" are you invoking? Or is it just a "feeling" you have?
Ah. I see.What about them? You'd have to ask their parents about their fate. They were the one's responsible for those children.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:56 pm But back to those who have a different experience, like the children of the Holocaust...what about them?
So you think the parents of the children made a "choice" or "did" something that inflicted suffering on their own children? It had nothing to do with Hitler and his minions? But it wasn't "unjust," even though the children can hardly have merited being beaten, incinerated, cut apart, frozen to death, shot in the back of the head, starved or turned into soap?
Those are terrible things, but to say they are unjust implies someone is responsible for those consequences.
Well, you think the children...or their parents...were responsible.
I find that view...unjust.