Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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attofishpi
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by attofishpi »

jayjacobus wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:07 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:24 am
jayjacobus[/quote wrote:
Perhaps, theists can agree that God is not perfect. Job said that in the Bible and god agreed.
Not sure what that's got to do with me or this thread...apparently God also stated he is a jealous God...an admition of 'imperfection ' right there.
All I meant was that no one can be sure but I am closer to one hypothesis. You are close to the middle but lean toward "no God".
Oh, what makes you think that I lean toward 'no God'?
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

As I had stated in the other posts and elsewhere [with you and others], the sources of the claims of your sort of divinity and altered states of consciousness are from your brain. Your brain is definitely involved.
This you cannot deny.

The question is whether these brain activities of altered states of consciousness that you have had are,
  • 1. directly and solely triggered within your own brain or

    2. is connected to and triggered from an external source, e.g. a TV that receives waves transmitted from an external source, which can be omnipresent.
Even when I was only a kid, then a theist [even now as a non-theist], I have had similar experiences of altered states of consciousness that I thought was associated with the 'divine' or absolute consciousness. At one time, I thought [ignorantly] I was very special to be given such experiences then.

Being very rational oriented I did extensive and thorough research on those experiences and discovered convincingly, these altered states of consciousness are solely confined to inside my brain. I have done that since long time ago and is continually updating my thesis on this with new evidences, especially from the neurosciences.

There is a wide ranges of stimuli that can affect the internal brain of a person to generate altered states of consciousness. I have already given many reasons earlier and there are many more.
What is critical is when certain specific parts of the brain are triggered by whatever means, then one could experience altered states of consciousness which may be divine, spiritual, pleasurable or at the other end, demonic, evil, pains, emotional, sufferings, etc.
see: Dr. Persinger's God Helmet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YPOTaUyvA0

The shortfall of your arguments is you are relying merely on 24 years of personal experiences which are highly subjective and opinionated, thus totally unreliable and not objective.

Your argument is;
  • 1. I have 24 years of altered states of consciousness related to the divine [subjective belief and opinion]
    2. No Verification and justification processes.
    3. Therefore God [in your divine] exists [subjective beliefs and opinion]
If it is subjective and not objective, it cannot be objectively real.

Here is how Science turned personal subjectivities into objectivity;
  • 1. Individuals have had empirical experiences EE, i.e. empirically subjective
    2. Above experiences are verified within the Scientific Methods, i.e. objectified
    3. Therefore EE is objectively true. [intersubjectivity].
Note 2 above is subjected to the requirements of the Scientific Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK] that entailed verifications, testing, repeatability, peer review and consensus by many recognized scientists [subjects].
In this case empirical subjective experiences are objectified via intersubjectivity, i.e. intersubjective consensus of many subjects.

As such, to ensure your claim is credible you will have to do what the scientists are doing at least to a certain degree.

In that case, you will have to perform process 2 with many others to ensure you can arrive at some objective conclusions.

But when your perform process 2 and collaborate and collect all similar experiences like yours, it is likely [as I and others had done] note that the root cause of your altered states of consciousness will originate solely from your brain, i.e. hallucinations.
E.g. I can use DMT and other triggers to repeat similar experience most of the time.
All reported cases of altered states of consciousness subjected to research has ended to its source within the brain and nothing external.

Here is one case;
Ramachandran, the Temporal Lobes and God - Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg
This guy experienced God directly.
Their tests discover he actually suffered from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy.
When they cured his TLE, he lost that ASC of God.
There are so many such cases.

My stroke of insight | Jill Bolte Taylor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU&t=4s
Jill Bolte experienced super 'divine' experiences when she suffered a stroke. Fortunately she is a neuro_anatomists and could linked her ASC solely to her brain.
  • If such an experience that happened to her, if say, 2000 years ago, and because people are ignorant of neuroscience and the likes then, she would have been accepted as a messiah or prophet and founded a religion. This could be the case with Jesus, Muhammad, St Paul and other prophets and religious founders in the dark ages of history.
You cannot depend solely on Quantum Mechanics and other theories of Physics because they as scientific theories are merely 'polished conjectures'.

Altered States of Consciousness like yours happened in a large number of people.
If only 0.01% of the nearly 8 billion people have had such experience, there would be 8 million :shock: of them around the world. I believe the actual numbers could be 1% i.e. 80 million and likely more up to 5% or 400 million experiencing different shades and degrees of ASC.

So there is no lack of samples for scientists to study them and if you take the trouble you will find there are already many research that had been done to track their causes to within the brain, i.e. mere hallucinations from various causes.
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:48 am Your brain is definitely involved.
This you cannot deny.

The question is whether these brain activities of altered states of consciousness that you have had are,
  • 1. directly and solely triggered within your own brain or

    2. is connected to and triggered from an external source, e.g. a TV that receives waves transmitted from an external source, which can be omnipresent.
Ok. I have skimmed enough of the above, and I have already seen some utube docs etc..regarding 'God' and associated brain farting...which I have NO doubt in many cases could be considered rational, that indeed there is some brain abnormality in some people compared to that of the majority of 'normal' people.

However the above statement is extremely arrogant of you, if you are insinuating that I have a brain malfunction.. Indeed - our brain. including yours is involved in ALL our conscious perception - this you also cannot deny..duh.

Let me know when you have read ALL of my Opening Post - and then we can discuss, intellectually and without bias, BEFORE you can start claiming anything that you have already insinuated simply because you saw some docos on it, or read articles on it. FFS.

...and when I state read the entire post, that includes when viewing the paintings - READ and comrehend their titles.

..thanks. my football team are playing in a few hrs..so we have time to kill, (although ooooh maybe I best start praying!! ..lol)
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by Age »

attofishpi wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:42 am ...
Why did you add into your opening post, your replies to my response to your opening post?

And, were any of the parts that you edited, four times, in your replies to my response to your opening post, or were all of the parts that you edited, four times, just in your opening post part only?
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by attofishpi »

Age wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:14 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:42 am ...
Why did you add into your opening post, your replies to my response to your opening post?

And, were any of the parts that you edited, four times, in your replies to my response to your opening post, or were all of the parts that you edited, four times, just in your opening post part only?
Sorry Age, but if you'd paid attention to my OP i did state that I would update it based on developments within the discussion - so that people new people that read the OP are abreast, rather than having to sift through the entire thread.
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by Age »

attofishpi wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:19 am
Age wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:14 am
attofishpi wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:42 am ...
Why did you add into your opening post, your replies to my response to your opening post?

And, were any of the parts that you edited, four times, in your replies to my response to your opening post, or were all of the parts that you edited, four times, just in your opening post part only?
Sorry Age, but if you'd paid attention to my OP i did state that I would update it based on developments within the discussion - so that people new people that read the OP are abreast, rather than having to sift through the entire thread.
So, new people will read the opening post and see your newer replies to my earlier responses/questions before they actually get to read, later on, your different and older first replies, correct?

Also, what have you decided yet? Is God:

1. divine and constructs our reality in real-time.

2. an A.I. - artificial intelligence - that we have evolved into a simulation (see simulation hypothesis) ..again, our reality is constructed in real-time.
NB. The reason we would evolve into a simulation is to conserve resources as entropy increases.

or,

3. a combination of the above?
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by attofishpi »

Age wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:59 am
attofishpi wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:19 am
Age wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:14 am

Why did you add into your opening post, your replies to my response to your opening post?

And, were any of the parts that you edited, four times, in your replies to my response to your opening post, or were all of the parts that you edited, four times, just in your opening post part only?
Sorry Age, but if you'd paid attention to my OP i did state that I would update it based on developments within the discussion - so that people new people that read the OP are abreast, rather than having to sift through the entire thread.
So, new people will read the opening post and see your newer replies to my earlier responses/questions before they actually get to read, later on, your different and older first replies, correct?
No.
First you must understand that is the beauty of free will, is that people can read the OP, and also read through the thread.
Second, I want to thank you for providing the relevant questions for me to then throw the answers into the OP (*RE Attributes of God). AND I REALLY MEAN THAT.

...sorry as I posted, I see you updated to ask the questions RE the 3 positions.
Answer:- I AM A CHRISTIAN. (just not the majority that appear to be rather dumb)

--- Actually a CHRISTIAN PANENTHEIST that is disgusted by Evangelists with all their big_O_try.

Also, when I state I am a Christian - that means I AM worth.Y He did what he did - --- it does not mean, running around killing people like some gangbanger or some rapist etc with a gold chain and cross hanging from around my neck thinking -- oooh all i need to do is believe Christ and I can do woteva -
SHIT AINT LIKE THAT
:twisted:
Last edited by attofishpi on Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:48 am Your brain is definitely involved.
This you cannot deny.

The question is whether these brain activities of altered states of consciousness that you have had are,
  • 1. directly and solely triggered within your own brain or

    2. is connected to and triggered from an external source, e.g. a TV that receives waves transmitted from an external source, which can be omnipresent.
Hey, you'd make a great psychiatrist!

How about we play a game, where you are my psychiatrist? Maybe I get two visits with you.

Yes?
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:47 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:48 am Your brain is definitely involved.
This you cannot deny.

The question is whether these brain activities of altered states of consciousness that you have had are,
  • 1. directly and solely triggered within your own brain or

    2. is connected to and triggered from an external source, e.g. a TV that receives waves transmitted from an external source, which can be omnipresent.
Ok. I have skimmed enough of the above, and I have already seen some utube docs etc..regarding 'God' and associated brain farting...which I have NO doubt in many cases could be considered rational, that indeed there is some brain abnormality in some people compared to that of the majority of 'normal' people.

However the above statement is extremely arrogant of you, if you are insinuating that I have a brain malfunction.. Indeed - our brain. including yours is involved in ALL our conscious perception - this you also cannot deny..duh.
In your case it is not a brain malfunction per se. I also had similar experiences in principle but I don't take it that I have a brain malfunctioned.
Your brain happened to be triggered in such a way that is not the same as 95% of people but that can be a good thing if the subsequent acts do not turned out to be evil.
It is obvious you have expanded your consciousness and knowledge via these altered states of consciousness.
If it has not driven you to do evil things and other sufferings for 24 years so it is not something to be seriously concerned with.
The only thing you need to do is to gather more knowledge of what is going inside your brain that manifest those altered states experiences.

If you can, it may of good knowledge to check whether you have high temporal lobe activities or whatever. Even if that is the case, it it not something serious since nothing serious has manifested in your 24 years of such experiences.

Read up Jill Bolte's books where she explained how her life and consciousness of reality has expanded and changed for the better since her 'fortunate' brain damage from the serious stroke she suffered.
Let me know when you have read ALL of my Opening Post - and then we can discuss, intellectually and without bias, BEFORE you can start claiming anything that you have already insinuated simply because you saw some docos on it, or read articles on it. FFS.

...and when I state read the entire post, that includes when viewing the paintings - READ and comrehend their titles.
I have read your entire posts and comprehended them.
It is not "some" docos but "tons" of them, i.e. bingeing on them at a certain phase of my research.
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:25 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:48 am Your brain is definitely involved.
This you cannot deny.

The question is whether these brain activities of altered states of consciousness that you have had are,
  • 1. directly and solely triggered within your own brain or

    2. is connected to and triggered from an external source, e.g. a TV that receives waves transmitted from an external source, which can be omnipresent.
Hey, you'd make a great psychiatrist!

How about we play a game, where you are my psychiatrist? Maybe I get two visits with you.

Yes?
Nah, I am not into that.
Suggest you research and explore every thing you can get from google and elsewhere on the subject.
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:12 am
attofishpi wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:47 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:48 am Your brain is definitely involved.
This you cannot deny.

The question is whether these brain activities of altered states of consciousness that you have had are,
  • 1. directly and solely triggered within your own brain or

    2. is connected to and triggered from an external source, e.g. a TV that receives waves transmitted from an external source, which can be omnipresent.
Ok. I have skimmed enough of the above, and I have already seen some utube docs etc..regarding 'God' and associated brain farting...which I have NO doubt in many cases could be considered rational, that indeed there is some brain abnormality in some people compared to that of the majority of 'normal' people.

However the above statement is extremely arrogant of you, if you are insinuating that I have a brain malfunction.. Indeed - our brain. including yours is involved in ALL our conscious perception - this you also cannot deny..duh.
In your case it is not a brain malfunction per se. I also had similar experiences in principle but I don't take it that I have a brain malfunctioned.
Your brain happened to be triggered in such a way that is not the same as 95% of people but that can be a good thing if the subsequent acts do not turned out to be evil.
It is obvious you have expanded your consciousness and knowledge via these altered states of consciousness.
If it has not driven you to do evil things and other sufferings for 24 years so it is not something to be seriously concerned with.
The only thing you need to do is to gather more knowledge of what is going inside your brain that manifest those altered states experiences.

If you can, it may of good knowledge to check whether you have high temporal lobe activities or whatever. Even if that is the case, it it not something serious since nothing serious has manifested in your 24 years of such experiences.

Read up Jill Bolte's books where she explained how her life and consciousness of reality has expanded and changed for the better since her 'fortunate' brain damage from the serious stroke she suffered.
Let me know when you have read ALL of my Opening Post - and then we can discuss, intellectually and without bias, BEFORE you can start claiming anything that you have already insinuated simply because you saw some docos on it, or read articles on it. FFS.

...and when I state read the entire post, that includes when viewing the paintings - READ and comrehend their titles.
I have read your entire posts and comprehended them.
It is not "some" docos but "tons" of them, i.e. bingeing on them at a certain phase of my research.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:14 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:25 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:48 am Your brain is definitely involved.
This you cannot deny.

The question is whether these brain activities of altered states of consciousness that you have had are,
  • 1. directly and solely triggered within your own brain or

    2. is connected to and triggered from an external source, e.g. a TV that receives waves transmitted from an external source, which can be omnipresent.
Hey, you'd make a great psychiatrist!

How about we play a game, where you are my psychiatrist? Maybe I get two visits with you.

Yes?
Nah, I am not into that.
Suggest you research and explore every thing you can get from google and elsewhere on the subject.
So.

Let me get this right, it is OK for you to spout off about what you have watched & read regarding brain disturbance etc etc..

But.

You are not willing to be challenged by the evidence in my Opening Post that clearly shows beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a 3rd party intelligence behind what we percieve as reality?
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:22 am So.

Let me get this right, it is OK for you to spout off about what you have watched & read regarding brain disturbance etc etc..

But.

You are not willing to be challenged by the evidence in my Opening Post that clearly shows beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a 3rd party intelligence behind what we percieve as reality?
I have already read your OP fully and noted the following and presented it earlier, i.e.

Your argument in the OP is as follows;
  • 1. I have 24 years of altered states of consciousness related to the divine [subjective belief and opinion]
    2. No proper Verification and justification processes.
    3. Therefore God [in your divine] exists [subjective beliefs and opinion]
Read my post again, to be credible you have to do process 2 as I highlighted and explained how earlier.
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:28 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:22 am So.

Let me get this right, it is OK for you to spout off about what you have watched & read regarding brain disturbance etc etc..

But.

You are not willing to be challenged by the evidence in my Opening Post that clearly shows beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a 3rd party intelligence behind what we percieve as reality?
I have already read your OP fully and noted the following and presented it earlier, i.e.

Your argument in the OP is as follows;
1. I have 24 years of altered states of consciousness related to the divine [subjective belief and opinion]
No. It doesn't state that AT ALL.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:28 am 2. No proper Verification and justification processes.
Er...4 landmasses painted to scale with points marked off in English as to be so remotely unlikely to have occurred naturally that one must be an idiot to overlook it as just RANDOM coincidence.

So, verify and justify for yourself - the evidence is there.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:28 am 3. Therefore God [in your divine] exists [subjective beliefs and opinion
No, not necessarily - I am suggesting a 3rd party intelligence is behind the construct of what we PERCEIVE as reality. Not only by my own personal empirical evidence - but here in this thread, I am able to provide empirical evidence for ALL.

Prove you are not a brain-in-a-vat, and that an A.I. is providing a simulated version of an originating reality!
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:43 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:28 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:22 am So.

Let me get this right, it is OK for you to spout off about what you have watched & read regarding brain disturbance etc etc..

But.

You are not willing to be challenged by the evidence in my Opening Post that clearly shows beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a 3rd party intelligence behind what we percieve as reality?
I have already read your OP fully and noted the following and presented it earlier, i.e.

Your argument in the OP is as follows;
1. I have 24 years of altered states of consciousness related to the divine [subjective belief and opinion]
No. It doesn't state that AT ALL.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:28 am 2. No proper Verification and justification processes.
Er...4 landmasses painted to scale with points marked off in English as to be so remotely unlikely to have occurred naturally that one must be an idiot to overlook it as just RANDOM coincidence.

So, verify and justify for yourself - the evidence is there.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:28 am 3. Therefore God [in your divine] exists [subjective beliefs and opinion
No, not necessarily - I am suggesting a 3rd party intelligence is behind the construct of what we PERCEIVE as reality. Not only by my own personal empirical evidence - but here in this thread, I am able to provide empirical evidence for ALL.

Prove you are not a brain-in-a-vat, and that an A.I. is providing a simulated version of an originating reality!
When you look at the Scandinavia Map, do you see a "dick" and "balls"?
Image

I have done extensive research into human nature.
All humans are programmed with an algorithm for "pattern recognition" to facilitate survival, especially 'face recognition' which critical to identify ones providers [parents] friends or foes and others.
Your personal justifications above are triggered by a strong inclination of pattern recognition as driven by an existential crisis.

All your justifications [coincidences driven by pattern recognition] are highly subjective and not objective thus not credible at all. This is very typical of the Muslims and Christians in justifying the existence of their God.
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Re: Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God'

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:05 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:43 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:28 am
I have already read your OP fully and noted the following and presented it earlier, i.e.

Your argument in the OP is as follows;
1. I have 24 years of altered states of consciousness related to the divine [subjective belief and opinion]
No. It doesn't state that AT ALL.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:28 am 2. No proper Verification and justification processes.
Er...4 landmasses painted to scale with points marked off in English as to be so remotely unlikely to have occurred naturally that one must be an idiot to overlook it as just RANDOM coincidence.

So, verify and justify for yourself - the evidence is there.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:28 am 3. Therefore God [in your divine] exists [subjective beliefs and opinion
No, not necessarily - I am suggesting a 3rd party intelligence is behind the construct of what we PERCEIVE as reality. Not only by my own personal empirical evidence - but here in this thread, I am able to provide empirical evidence for ALL.

Prove you are not a brain-in-a-vat, and that an A.I. is providing a simulated version of an originating reality!
When you look at the Scandinavia Map, do you see a "dick" and "balls"?
Image

I have done extensive research into human nature.
All humans are programmed with an algorithm for "pattern recognition" to facilitate survival, especially 'face recognition' which critical to identify ones providers [parents] friends or foes and others.
Your personal justifications above are triggered by a strong inclination of pattern recognition as driven by an existential crisis.

All your justifications [coincidences driven by pattern recognition] are highly subjective and not objective thus not credible at all. This is very typical of the Muslims and Christians in justifying the existence of their God.
You should spend more time researching how to debate on a PHILOSOPHY forum - you have not refuted a single point I made in you list of 3.

As per above - I do not c a dick and balls, but am starting to think that is where you brain farts any research to.

So you are clearly not comprehending a random map image (YOURS), with mine that couples language on accurate points on the landmass.

Let's make it interesting, do you see the difference in what you just posted as an image - with NO LOGICAL coupling a "dick and balls" to this:-

Chile is a long thin backbone to South America - CHILL UP YOUR SPINE? - BRA_zil - on the NIPPLE has a town called NATAL - which means:- Of or relating to childbirth.
ANOTHER RANDOM COIN_CIDENCE?

NATAL (South America to scale)
Image
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