Understanding the religious mindset

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

Sculptor wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 11:21 am
gaffo wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 12:02 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 4:10 pm [
The so-called "civilised" expansion into pre-agricultural societies has been a disaster for morality. From what little was left when the "civilised" people decided to record the diminishing cultures, we learn of peoples who were generally well behaved beyond the dreams of organised religion's so-called "Ethics".

I suspect you are talking abotu the Americas - but FYI - the American Indians had agriculture since about 10,000 yrs ago
Wrong. Not until 4000 years ago
- when the Europenas arrived the indians ad Corn, Squash and Tobacco - in fac tthe latter was cultivized so long ago that its wild form is no longer existant!
The Americas. Australia, many parts of Africa. But you only have to go back to 12kbp anywhere in the world to find no agriculture.

-all the world agricuturalized around the same time.
False.

It did not reach Britain until 6kbp. But strated in the Levant 11kbp that is 5000 years difference. And there are still remote places where Hunting anf Gathering is still the main subsistence.
I did this at degree level, your facts are wrong and easily verified by the Internet
glad to know you are educated - i am too - your dates are correct - turkey was first and ireland was last - and your date are correct.

but you play squirrel so fk you - you claimed the American Indians were a pre-agricultural culture when the Spanish showed up - i called you out in thiss - its in your own fucking post Sir - know you play squirrel and "i wrote a dissertation on this and that" - wekk IF - you diid - why did you yourself post that when the spainish showed up the indiians had not agriculture!!!!!!!!!!!!


you are full of it. - your ego is tooo small to discuss life - i have no time for bullies with no egos - i have time with folks that have egos and solid self image - but on my opposite side - to understand wherer the hell they are comming from and maybe learn from them.


i can learn noting from you even though you and i are on the same side politically.

good day Sir.
gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

Sculptor wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 11:27 am
gaffo wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 10:31 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 9:12 am [
The ethics of the common person predates Xity and is far better than Xity. Why confuse the issue?
Ethics is a univeral nature of man - it dates to 2-million BC - and so long before Christianity or any of the other known religons of the world..
Formal ethics would imply a branch of study and reflection. I do not think 2 million years can be offered as a date for that since no evidence could exist for ethics at that time.
A moral sense is present on all mammals to different degrees.
We definitely witness moral behaviours in our house pets, and simians, whales, elephants - and whole host of other animals, even some birds and reptiles.
One thing is for sure, Christianity is not necessary.
agreed.
gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 2:42 pm
gaffo wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:52 am no next topic - only wished to discuss Ben.
Okay. Sorry you're unhappy. I don't know anything about "Ben", and since you offer no reason to incline me to think I would wish to invest the considerable time required to bring myself up anywhere close to up to speed on that, I think I'm the wrong conversation partner for you on that one. Perhaps somebody else knows something about "Ben," and can offer you what you want. I trust so.

No next topic: okay, that's your call. Conversation is always optional. Thanks for your time.
thats fine - interent archive will be around for the next 20 yrs - and our god willing you are around then - and think beck toward me on this forum - you will take the time to listen to the best Radiodrama ever made and the 3rd or 4th best "speculative science fiction" book written - after 1984, Brave New World.

I only asked you to take the time to lend an ear - but if you refusee - that on you - no harm no fowl - can't make a donkey drink water - i did my duty - my duty was to "share the best audio artform made by man to others that might appreciate and contemplate - but if you can't take 10 hour out of your busy day - oh well.


dissapointed, my panties are not in a bunch - because i disscoverd this show 20 yrs ago and bought the DVD set 17 yrs ago for 40 buck via the ZBS foundation - when i disscover something worthy i do actually buy it to support the artists - but value piracy - for without the latter i wold never disscover the works thin the forst place.

------we can continue to talk about stuff - and when in the nest 20 yrs or so you take the time to listen to a 10 hr show - I may still be here on this forum (say you have had a decade to tak ethe time - and just desice to listen to the show - i may be here in 2031 ofr us to disscuss Ben's characeter - what he represents).

who knows. my panties are clean ad ironed - so we are good - but still dissapointed, but I'm not a crybaby, "oonward and forward"
gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

henry quirk wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:50 pm
gaffo wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 3:37 am Henry - i do like you BTW, i think you know that - hurt that you say i'm crasy last yr beign a liberal libeertarian (I guess that concept is impssible to you - if you'd like to talk about libertarianism I'm all gam ) - anyway i'm over my mad - been a year or so.
👍
thanks Sir!

if you'd wish to talk about Libertarianism I'd welcoem the disccussion.

- not "the Party" - i did vote for Ron PAul in 88 prez election BTW - still love him - but hate his son.

Libertarians have 3 platforms:

not in order of importance just a list of the three:

1.US Constitution should be interpreted conservatively - so "oringinal intent/construction should be the main focus - per me i view 75 percnt so - and 25 "living document - but that is just me. just stating the lib philosophy - i concider myself a lib - adn affirm 1/4th living doc as valid - so maybe i'm not a lib? - or other libs also affimr less than 100-precet literal - who know

2. civil liberty -true libertarinas don't give a shit if you fuck your dog in the morning and your cat at night - as long as you don't force me to do the ame.

3. economic lasa fair - an rand stuff - this is where i'll fully NOT on borad - i know the big fish eat up the small and we allways end up with tirany of the monopoly - so i wish the gov was not bought out by the corp so as to be the gatekepers to keep mooplies from abbusing the people.

so ii'm 2/3rds pure libertarain - per the rule of law-constitution and civil rights(social stuff - fine with perversion as long as it is not forced on me and others) - but not economical freedom to become a monopoly.

thanks for relpy BTW
gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

seeds wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:52 pm
gaffo wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 1:51 am
seeds wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:51 pm
Immanuel Can, please explain to us how the children in the following image...

Image

...have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God?
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as soon as you have self awareness you have to be carefull. for a 6yr old that sins and never accepts Christ gooes to Hell forever. like most of the rest of us.
Yes, gaffo, and that whole concept invokes the utterly bizarre logic that, starting from this moment, all humans should die as infants in order to guarantee their entrance into heaven and eternal life.

Indeed, it may result in the fact that no more humans will ever again be awakened into existence on this planet, but at least no one will ever again have to face the possibility of eternal damnation for not believing in or performing the rituals of the "right religion" while on earth.

The bottom line is that based on the very premises of Christianity, it is far too risky for any human to live past the age of accountability.
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yep

in the same vian, but sort of opposit is the Catholic Doctirme - formally affirmed for centuries - is that those that never hear The Word - are saved by defaul. this is a fact per Catholics - so that make in effect Jesus an agent of dath - angle of dath? - for without him none of us would know the word of god and would be saved by default!!!!!!!!!!!!


now i don't know how fundie Emmanual is - prot funis deny catholics as chrsitian - per him - i personally don';t think he that funiee - but welcome him to come here correct me on my view of him if he wishes.

I'm not anti religious - i fear death as an athiest as much as anyone else - but i do think me not being anti religious but of no faith allow me to read the Koran OT NT - and the hindu works (whcih i've not - and i should!) - to rad then and then use my mind to say - this book is good and that book is filth (lviticus anyone?). I have no cultural pressure to demand ""sola Scirture" - i say remove levitucus from the OT - and remove Suals fro the NT - then incude Juballes, 1st enochin OT - and include sharpard of hermis and the didache in the nt.

I've read 1/3 o fthe koran - its redundant - so lost he will - this was way back in the 80's - i found 2/3 of it repulsive - like leviticus - but the other 1/3 as worthy and similar to the best of the OT and NT

BTW thrre is no way one man wrot eth ekoran - its a collectiong of different authors with their agendas - just like with the bible.


but i'm just a God denying pridefulled ahteist under the power of Belial, so ignore my post if you value your soul.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:25 am "speculative science fiction"
Not a genre I crave, for sure.

Each to his own. No hard feelings.
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Sculptor
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Sculptor »

gaffo wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:09 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 11:21 am
gaffo wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 12:02 am


I suspect you are talking abotu the Americas - but FYI - the American Indians had agriculture since about 10,000 yrs ago
Wrong. Not until 4000 years ago
- when the Europenas arrived the indians ad Corn, Squash and Tobacco - in fac tthe latter was cultivized so long ago that its wild form is no longer existant!
The Americas. Australia, many parts of Africa. But you only have to go back to 12kbp anywhere in the world to find no agriculture.

-all the world agricuturalized around the same time.
False.

It did not reach Britain until 6kbp. But started in the Levant 11kbp that is 5000 years difference. And there are still remote places where Hunting and Gathering is still the main subsistence.
I did this at degree level, your facts are wrong and easily verified by the Internet
glad to know you are educated - i am too - your dates are correct - turkey was first and ireland was last - and your date are correct.

but you play squirrel so fk you - you claimed the American Indians were a pre-agricultural culture when the Spanish showed up - i called you out in thiss - its in your own fucking post Sir - know you play squirrel and "i wrote a dissertation on this and that" - wekk IF - you diid - why did you yourself post that when the spainish showed up the indiians had not agriculture!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agriculture was nowhere present in the Americas 10kbp. Most tribes subsisted on hunting and gathering. There were some excpetions in the North; Pueblo Indians for example, and in the South, a chain of civilisations (Olmec, Inca, Mayan) grew up that relied on agriculture. All failed, only to return to hunting and gathering except the Aztec who met the Spanish. Other excpetions included examples of mainly pastrotalism, such as Alpaca and Llama husbandry.
But in the main, most examples of subsitence were still H/g by 1492.
I did not say, nor did I ever imply that there was no agriculture of any kind in the Americas. You made that leap, and thought you had on over on me. You did not.
I do not know what you mean by squiirel.


you are full of it. - your ego is tooo small to discuss life - i have no time for bullies with no egos - i have time with folks that have egos and solid self image - but on my opposite side - to understand wherer the hell they are comming from and maybe learn from them.
Take a look at yourself. You came at me guns blazing with a bunch of false information, I knew was incorrect. As no one likes to be criticised with false information; no one likes to be told they were wrong. I now see you have set you knowledge straight. I am glad to be of help.

i can learn noting from you even though you and i are on the same side politically.
That is funny, since you already have.

good day Sir.
Yeah, run away!
Don't forget to open a book someday.
seeds
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:33 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:48 pm
Lacewing wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:21 pm Why would a creation be set up to have choices linked to promises of eternal rewards or punishments? Why wouldn't a creation be allowed to be free without any such promises?
But we don't live in that kind of universe. People choose different things all the time, without experiencing any reward or punishment. The key word is "eternal," because right now, we are not in eternity...
Yes, "eternal" was the key word... which you ignored and didn't answer to. Instead, you switched the question to the present moment. Did you really not understand that I was referring to the rewards and punishment promised after life?
Actually, what Mr. Can seems to have the most trouble understanding is that fate could have allowed for a tiny little shift in Mr. Can's situation wherein he could have been born from the womb of a Hindu mother, or Buddhist mother, or a Muslim mother and thus have been brainwashed into accepting the doctrines of one of those other religions.

Which means that, were it not for the sheer chance of where he was awakened into life on this planet,...

...then he himself would be on the receiving end of every disparaging remark he makes regarding the grim destiny that awaits all those who were NOT born into a family and society where one is introduced to the "right" religion (which, in this case, would have been him).

And the point is that God is not going to punish (or reward) anyone based on where (or when) they were awakened into life in this "crapshoot" system of soul-birthing that God herself created.
_______
seeds
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:07 pm "Understanding the religious mindset"
Well, Lacewing, based on my own personal assessment of your thread so far, I suggest that there seems to be at least one thing that we can definitely understand about the "religious mindset." And that one thing is that each religion...

(be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., etc.)

...is like a mind-imprisoning "bubble" that, for the most part, is constructed from mythological nonsense that acts as the binding agent that holds the bubble together - a binding agent that, in some cases, is strengthened by stern warnings of horrific eternal punishments if one tries to exit the bubble.

And unless some profound event...

(such as a near-death experience, for example, or perhaps an experience with a powerful entheogenic substance as another example)

...causes one to see the bubble for what it truly is (again, mythological nonsense), or, better yet, to see beyond the wall of the greater bubble of the illusion of objective reality...

Image

...then I'm afraid that the conditions within some of the bubbles can cause their prisoners to not only say some pretty ignorant things about the creative source of the universe (as is witnessed in this thread),...

...but also cause them to exhibit some extremely bizarre mannerisms...

Image

Image

Image

:D :D :D
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attofishpi
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by attofishpi »

seeds wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:12 pm
Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:33 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:48 pm
But we don't live in that kind of universe. People choose different things all the time, without experiencing any reward or punishment. The key word is "eternal," because right now, we are not in eternity...
Yes, "eternal" was the key word... which you ignored and didn't answer to. Instead, you switched the question to the present moment. Did you really not understand that I was referring to the rewards and punishment promised after life?
Actually, what Mr. Can seems to have the most trouble understanding is that fate could have allowed for a tiny little shift in Mr. Can's situation wherein he could have been born from the womb of a Hindu mother, or Buddhist mother, or a Muslim mother and thus have been brainwashed into accepting the doctrines of one of those other religions.

Which means that, were it not for the sheer chance of where he was awakened into life on this planet,...

...then he himself would be on the receiving end of every disparaging remark he makes regarding the grim destiny that awaits all those who were NOT born into a family and society where one is introduced to the "right" religion (which, in this case, would have been him).

And the point is that God is not going to punish (or reward) anyone based on where (or when) they were awakened into life in this "crapshoot" system of soul-birthing that God herself created.
_______
Duh, ergo it is likely that IC is reborn into Christianity ...and U ...born into obscurity (atheism OR woteva bollocks u fancied :twisted: )
gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:38 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:25 am "speculative science fiction"
Not a genre I crave, for sure.

Each to his own. No hard feelings.
ok, to each theri own - you limit yourself - for i know you are not a bot - but whatever - i'm not a dkick so your loss. just remembr that a person wit introspection and wisdom, allows and gives time to others that share the same introspection,.


I know you have introspection - but if you wish to limit via blowing your knees off - "i don't like sci fic" - fine by me.

disappointed - but you do you - whomever you is.

Maybe yuou've got all the asnwsers and no need to learn more from any soursce - is that you?



so keep playing donkey - wall off all pontential insights and widsom - you've got all the understanding - so ya your good - don't bother to take 10 hrs fo your time.
gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:44 pm
gaffo wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:09 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 11:21 am
Wrong. Not until 4000 years ago

The Americas. Australia, many parts of Africa. But you only have to go back to 12kbp anywhere in the world to find no agriculture.

False.

It did not reach Britain until 6kbp. But started in the Levant 11kbp that is 5000 years difference. And there are still remote places where Hunting and Gathering is still the main subsistence.
I did this at degree level, your facts are wrong and easily verified by the Internet
glad to know you are educated - i am too - your dates are correct - turkey was first and ireland was last - and your date are correct.

but you play squirrel so fk you - you claimed the American Indians were a pre-agricultural culture when the Spanish showed up - i called you out in thiss - its in your own fucking post Sir - know you play squirrel and "i wrote a dissertation on this and that" - wekk IF - you diid - why did you yourself post that when the spainish showed up the indiians had not agriculture!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agriculture was nowhere present in the Americas 10kbp. Most tribes subsisted on hunting and gathering. There were some excpetions in the North; Pueblo Indians for example, and in the South, a chain of civilisations (Olmec, Inca, Mayan) grew up that relied on agriculture. All failed, only to return to hunting and gathering except the Aztec who met the Spanish. Other excpetions included examples of mainly pastrotalism, such as Alpaca and Llama husbandry.
But in the main, most examples of subsitence were still H/g by 1492.
I did not say, nor did I ever imply that there was no agriculture of any kind in the Americas. You made that leap, and thought you had on over on me. You did not.
I do not know what you mean by squiirel.


you are full of it. - your ego is tooo small to discuss life - i have no time for bullies with no egos - i have time with folks that have egos and solid self image - but on my opposite side - to understand wherer the hell they are comming from and maybe learn from them.
Take a look at yourself. You came at me guns blazing with a bunch of false information, I knew was incorrect. As no one likes to be criticised with false information; no one likes to be told they were wrong. I now see you have set you knowledge straight. I am glad to be of help.

i can learn noting from you even though you and i are on the same side politically.
That is funny, since you already have.

good day Sir.
Yeah, run away!
Don't forget to open a book someday.
ya sure bubba. keep feeding that ego, on day you might make it to peace of mind - though doubt it.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:51 pm ... but if you wish to limit via blowing your knees off - "i don't like sci fic" - fine by me....
Far too much of it is ONLY "speculative." It's a genre that lacks rigour.

The exception would be things like "1984" or "Blade Runner," both very good, the real payoff of which is not actually "speculative" but rather, more observational. They're the kind of sci-fi whose real implications are in the here-and-now, and they observe the here-and-now's pathologies very astutely.
don't bother to take 10 hrs fo your time.
I read "A Canticle for Leibowitz" years ago. I thought little of it -- not because it offends me, and far less because its suggestions are somehow threatening -- but because it gets the observational dimension of its' "speculations" so badly wrong. It's just not very good, in my opinion. Certainly nowhere near the former two.

So I think there are lots of more interesting things to talk about. Sci-fi is hit-or-miss: the "hits" are great, but the "misses" are very wide indeed, and often are little more than time wasted.
gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

seeds wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:12 pm
Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:33 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:48 pm
But we don't live in that kind of universe. People choose different things all the time, without experiencing any reward or punishment. The key word is "eternal," because right now, we are not in eternity...
Yes, "eternal" was the key word... which you ignored and didn't answer to. Instead, you switched the question to the present moment. Did you really not understand that I was referring to the rewards and punishment promised after life?
Actually, what Mr. Can seems to have the most trouble understanding is that fate could have allowed for a tiny little shift in Mr. Can's situation wherein he could have been born from the womb of a Hindu mother, or Buddhist mother, or a Muslim mother and thus have been brainwashed into accepting the doctrines of one of those other religions.
Exactly - adn my other best friend of 20 yrs now - who is a funie Baptist - affimrs just your view and has said many times " if i were boprn in indai i would not be brought up a christian" - so you are correct - adn some funies - per my experience Christian - but as a univeral humanist - that means equal number ofHindu Nationalists, adn Muslim fudies would asl affirm the same view.

I've nver understood how my good firend could squar3 the circle - "ya i would have have been born a muslim if i were born in Yemen in 1965 instread of america - but at the same time one needs chrsit to be saved fro Hell eternal.


- my good friend is not a dkck, and very intelligent - samrtyer than me (20 yrs of chess very workday - he wins 52 percent of the ttime) - but he's not a thinker. not introspective in any way. in fack though he is smarter than me i think iam wiser - or maybe justI'm just a assohole egocentic wannabe smart guy.

my point is - no Muslim. Chrastiasn,etc - has really thought about it - not really. most folks are not thinkers - they just live life, assume god ais good and will not let their best friend sit in hell forever if they dny the one true God or affirm the wrong god.


its not rocket science - using intellect you end up with "i',n god" - maybe intellect is not all there is (its not, there is feeling alsom) - but per the bigger picture outside of those 2 - empiricsm does not offer proof. so must folks bing good and liking and loving their good friends wish their god will not send them to hell forever - evne if th Koran/OIT/NT - says I go t ohell forever!

And according to those three books i will - and forever being an Athiest.

I have 5 close fired - ad 2 more more not quit thre - of those 5, 4 are Christian, of those 2 are Fundie - no error in the bible/etc.

those 2 knew i was an atheist 20 yrs ago - i now them from work - met and became friends - they knowing i was an atheist (i'm not proud nor shamfull - just stated the facts) - they chose to affirm me as a person - and liking me (not being introspectiv - reading all the spripture that says i go to hell fover) - instad they assume since "i am a nice atheist" i will not be damne dto hell forever (so in effect their god will make an exception in my case becasue they like me as a friend and person) - i hope they are right - but t\heir bibile make no such claim.




seeds wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:12 pm And the point is that God is not going to punish (or reward) anyone based on where (or when) they were awakened into life in this "crapshoot" system of soul-birthing that God herself created.


No no no no no no no!!!!!!!!!!!!and Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm an Athiest - so there is not God - if i find myself alive in hell after my dat via this realm - then i will no longer be an Athiest but a "belvier" in whatever God/s rule Hell. - and still sit there forever - so the books tell me.

Why you assume God is a nice guy? - instead of a pure asshole? - becasue you are not an assshole so assume your creator is not also. - is this an article of faith o your part?


per me - i assume god does not exist - if he does i assume he is neither moral nor evil. - so being objective i can see your god/s existing and dick and denying my salvation from the belly of Hell - you Koran and OT adn NT all three same the same thing - after you die it iis too late to repent (so god/the gods are assholes to deny repentance and salvation from hell ---------------where you and i differ is:


you seem to say - "i like the idea that god is good like i am - where i stand is ther eis no evidence of god in this life, but i make no assumptions he is just - i vaule humiltiy - is is humble to assume your god is just? if he is not? - can you make him just if he is not?


i make no such assumptions - you seem to - fk not even know if you are a Chrsitian or not - noted your posts over the years - most worhthy per character - a good one - but never noted if you were a christian or not - my bad. welcome clarification.

2-cents.
gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:04 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:51 pm ... but if you wish to limit via blowing your knees off - "i don't like sci fic" - fine by me....
Far too much of it is ONLY "speculative." It's a genre that lacks rigour.

The exception would be things like "1984" or "Blade Runner," both very good, the real payoff of which is not actually "speculative" but rather, more observational. They're the kind of sci-fi whose real implications are in the here-and-now, and they observe the here-and-now's pathologies very astutely.
Blade runer is over-ratted - its a 7 out of 10 , bt not what is claimd of it.

your forgot Brave now World - a 8 - lesser than 1984 (i read both in the 80's) - I think 1984 is one o fthe best books ever written (all the movie per it suck) - brave now world is still an 8 - but no match for 1984.

and AD BTW the world we have today is more Brave New World than 1984 - though the latter is the better book, the former is what we are living in.
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:04 pm I read "A Canticle for Leibowitz" years ago. I thought little of it -- not because it offends me, and far less because its suggestions are somehow threatening -- but because it gets the observational dimension of its' "speculations" so badly wrong. It's just not very good, in my opinion. Certainly nowhere near the former two.

ok - thnaks for this - maybe - now i am weary of you as a person of honesty. we've talked about Miller Jr' work now for 2? monts now - and now you tell me you read it?

now i must supest you as a phony player - only her eto talk - not understand others perspective.

i would have done you credit - assuming you are a real person - instead of abot - to have told me you had read millers work 2 fuckign months ago - all the while telling me why you could not take the time to listen to the equivalent radiiodrama.


what he fuck is your game - i don't waste my time with trulls or deceptive typs. i value disccusion - but if you had 8 weeks to tell me you had read millers work and never offered this - well WTF - i got no time for you.
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