Understanding the religious mindset

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:15 pm
Lacewing wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:42 am Ah, this wonderful image...

Image

...has been one of my favorites for a long time!
Although I am not sure what this image is supposed to convey I do not think it matches the sentiment to which you are responding.
Could be wrong, but seems to be an image in advocacy to the concept of superlunary physics. Not so much seeing out of your bubble but more like accepting the the bubble is real
To me, the image represents reaching beyond whatever world we walk in, to whatever may be beyond that -- not leaving one for the other, but trying to be aware of both.
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:15 pm [Benny image] :lol: My first reaction, thought it said BENNY HILL was coming.
That would have made more sense... than men in suits seriously piling on top of each other in religious ecstasy. Ancient primitive tribes have done weird stuff too, though.
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:15 pm Why not just use bullets - at least they'd find the answer to the question about meeting your maker.
Now, that's a bit extreme. It's part of the show, I guess. Many versions.
Belinda
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Belinda »

Sculptor wrote regarding the picture Seeds posted:

Why not just use bullets - at least they'd find the answer to the question about meeting your maker.

Seeds's picture is another image of the same idea that Plato's Cave image portrays. For all we can know the idea may or may not be true .
Neither Seeds's starry image nor Plato's Cave image say anything about life after death.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

Interesting that this whole discussion thread turned out not to be involved in "understanding," but only in "denying," or even in mere "derision" or parody. Not surprising, but interesting.

Interesting also that the OP took for granted that there is such a thing as "the religious mind," and that it is "set."

To no great surprise, these predisposition are resulting in heat without light. After all, to artificially collectivize, stereotype, overgeneralize and then pathologize one's subject matter, straight from the OP, is hardly a formula for an eventual arrival at any kind of "understanding."

Rarely did an OP contain so bold a false promise.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

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Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:07 pm Interesting that this whole discussion thread turned out not to be involved in "understanding," but only in "denying," or even in mere "derision" or parody. Not surprising, but interesting.
It's not surprising that you continually distort things and fail to see the value in anything beyond your beliefs -- which is a pretty good demonstration of one type of religious mindset. Discussions on this forum often go in many directions.
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:07 pmInteresting also that the OP took for granted that there is such a thing as "the religious mind," and that it is "set."
Nothing is taken for granted except what you seem to be taking for granted. The words were only meant to provide an idea for the discussion. Several people on this forum have religious mindsets... or if you prefer: religious ways of thinking. Get over it and stop being a big baby.
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:07 pmTo no great surprise, these predisposition are resulting in heat without light. After all, to artificially collectivize, stereotype, overgeneralize and then pathologize one's subject matter,
You're describing yourself.
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:07 pmhardly a formula for an eventual arrival at any kind of "understanding."
Well it doesn't stroke you the way you like to do for yourself, so it's not the kind of understanding you might appreciate. Why don't you stop whining and offer some understanding about the various ways of religious thinking? Or do you just follow along on a certain path without truthfully questioning its boundaries?
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:07 pmRarely did an OP contain so bold a false promise.
:lol:
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

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Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:57 pm Why don't you...offer some understanding about the various ways of religious thinking?
Because there's no such thing as "the religious" mindset.

Notice the use of the definite article "the" in the OP: its assumption is that there's only one such "mindset," and that it's "set," obviously.

With such an erroneous presupposition, what can one do? One can only step out of the way, and let the subsequent confusion reign.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

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Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:50 pm
Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:57 pm Why don't you...offer some understanding about the various ways of religious thinking?
Because there's no such thing as "the religious" mindset.

Notice the use of the definite article "the" in the OP: its assumption is that there's only one such "mindset," and that it's "set," obviously.

With such an erroneous presupposition, what can one do?
Get over it and get past it. There are all kinds of mindsets: political, teaching, parental, philosophical, mathematical, religious, etc. You're making childish excuses. You've apparently got nothing to offer because of the mindset you're clinging to, and its resistance to questioning for further understanding. :) See? There's some understanding right there about the religious mindset.
seeds
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

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Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:25 am ...Seeds's picture is another image of the same idea that Plato's Cave image portrays. For all we can know the idea may or may not be true .
Neither Seeds's starry image nor Plato's Cave image say anything about life after death.
Like I have already stated many times in other threads, if our lives truly do continue on in a higher context of reality after death, then we simply cannot be allowed to have any kind of definitive proof of that fact.

And as to the "starry image," according to Wiki, it's called the "Flammarion engraving"...
wiki wrote: The Flammarion engraving is a wood engraving by an unknown artist, so named because its first documented appearance is in Camille Flammarion's 1888 book L'atmosphère : météorologie populaire ("The Atmosphere: Popular Meteorology")....It has been used as a metaphorical illustration of either the scientific or the mystical quests for knowledge.
To me, the Flammarion engraving is just an imaginative artistic representation of the fact that many humans down through the ages have caught glimpses of what seems to be a higher dimension of reality that exists above and outside of the mundane illusion of the bubble of reality that we call a universe.

And as I implied earlier, aside from becoming an advanced practitioner of eastern methods of achieving enlightenment, if you have a near death experience, for example, or experiences with LSD under the right circumstances as another example, then you too will be popping your head through the veil depicted in the engraving.

I truly believe that what lies on the other side of the veil portrayed in this classic image...

Image

...is so wonderful that it must be kept hidden from us until death so that we are not tempted to seek it out prematurely.
_______
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:10 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:50 pm With such an erroneous presupposition, what can one do?
Get over it and get past it.
:D You can't "get past" something that's just plain wrong and unrealistic without lending it credence by taking it for granted. And this OP certainly deserves to be questioned, because it's actually formed around a very silly and erroneous set of assumptions.

Nothing sensible will follow if you begin a conversation by accepting stupid assumptions. The subsequent conversation's all going to be on the wrong footing.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:13 pm
Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:10 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:50 pm With such an erroneous presupposition, what can one do?
Get over it and get past it.
:D You can't "get past" something that's just plain wrong and unrealistic without lending it credence by taking it for granted. And this OP certainly deserves to be questioned, because it's actually formed around a very silly and erroneous set of assumptions.

Nothing sensible will follow if you begin a conversation by accepting stupid assumptions. The subsequent conversation's all going to be on the wrong footing.
And yet you keep engaging in it... and offering nothing compelling to demonstrate otherwise. You actually keep demonstrating examples of what this topic is about: a way of thinking that rejects/invalidates/devalues anything that doesn't line up with your specific religious beliefs. Any image... any fact... that casts a critical light on the less holy and more absurd potentials of religiosity (which are absolutely worth questioning and being aware of)... you refuse to acknowledge or address honestly. As if not speaking of it makes it nonexistent.

In what ways does religion spur people to believe, make, and spread unproven claims, while vehemently denying obvious truths? Shouldn't theists be openly mindful of that... holding leaders and organizations accountable... resisting deception, distortions, and controlling agendas... as they would think important in any area of life? Isn't it obvious that the "god affiliation" sidesteps reasonable questioning in countless areas and ways? If it's "of god", it must be true, and it must not be challenged. Really?! That makes it the perfect cover for all kinds of demented weirdness.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:09 pm And yet you keep engaging in it... and offering nothing compelling to demonstrate otherwise.
Au contraire: I'm correcting its fundamental error. You could have chosen to do that. But you didn't.
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Sculptor
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

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Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:50 pm
Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:57 pm Why don't you...offer some understanding about the various ways of religious thinking?
Because there's no such thing as "the religious" mindset.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's the way you tell 'em.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:00 pm I'm correcting its fundamental error. You could have chosen to do that. But you didn't.
I'm not limited to your rigid definitions/interpretations which you think are the supreme template for the Universe, and which you use to avoid venturing beyond your limits. If you have truth to speak, and more flexibility about varying ways of communication, it's not as important exactly which specific words are used... especially when it has been explained to you using other words, as well. Being anal about it, as you are, is a game of avoidance. And for a theist to insist on precise accuracy of statements is laughable. Get over yourself!
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Sculptor
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Sculptor »

Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:25 am Sculptor wrote regarding the picture Seeds posted:

Why not just use bullets - at least they'd find the answer to the question about meeting your maker.

Seeds's picture is another image of the same idea that Plato's Cave image portrays. For all we can know the idea may or may not be true .
Neither Seeds's starry image nor Plato's Cave image say anything about life after death.
There were two images posted.
One I took to be a sage looking at the superlunary world that is significantly different in physics from the sublunary world, earth.
And the other one which seems to be a line of adult males running towards another to be batted away from him by his jacket.
presuming them to be recieving some sort of unction suggested that shooting them would get them closer to god more quickly.
This was jocular.
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Sculptor
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Sculptor »

seeds wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:06 pm
Image

...is so wonderful that it must be kept hidden from us until death so that we are not tempted to seek it out prematurely.
_______
I'm pretty sure that this is a picture of the superlunary and sublunary realms.
In the pre-enlightenment world these ideas were common enough.
This is old fashioned science, to explain how planets stayed up in defiance of gravity; different laws of physics were thought to operate in the world above.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:36 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:00 pm I'm correcting its fundamental error. You could have chosen to do that. But you didn't.
I'm not limited to your rigid definitions/interpretations...
Nah. You didn't even notice. It went right past you.
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