Understanding the religious mindset

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:51 pm [

Maybe yuou've got all the asnwsers and no need to learn more from any soursce - is that you?
as well as not telling me you had read miller work 2 fuking moths ago - so we could have discussed why you did not find it worhty - 2 months to disscuss your view per his work.

instad you tell me today you had rad it yrs ago and found it unworhty. why not tell me weeks ago?

are you just a troll?


fully dissapointed in you - not like you casre - just stating ;-(.

one more reason to leave this forums - the most respected person here on this fourm i can no longer trust. most others here offer only thier ego - i thought you were an honest player, but now no longer sadly.

so this forum offers no members with minds - instead of egos - to disscuse the nature of life.

oh well - - now i know at least this furum has no membrs worth my time to "talk" with. and so a rason to just leave it.
FrankGSterleJr
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by FrankGSterleJr »

Upon the recent discovery of the mass grave at the former Kamloops (B.C., Canada) Indian Residential (Catholic) School site, containing the remains of 215 indigenous children, many people of the faith likely need to believe that such an atrocious occurrence could only have happened 'long ago'/'in the past'; and, more importantly, their church and humanity therefore could/would not allow such inhumanity to happen again in our much more civilized, modern times. I, however, doubt that is the way large-scale societies — let alone border-segregated, independent nations — necessarily behave as wholes.

After 34 years of news consumption, I have found that a disturbingly large number of categorized people, however precious their souls, can be considered thus treated as though disposable, even to an otherwise democratic nation. When the young children of those people take notice of this, tragically, they’re vulnerable to begin perceiving themselves as beings without value. When I say this, I primarily have in mind indigenous-nation (and Black) Canadians and Americans. But, tragically, such horrendous occurrences still happen on Earth, often enough going unrealized to the rest of the world.

It wasn't a racial genocide, but it was a serious attempt at annihilating indigenous-nation culture. ... The indigenous children's mass grave, as sadly anticipated as the find was (and others are expected), must not be in vain. It needs to mark the start of a substantial progressive move forward for indigenous nations, especially regarding life’s fundamental necessities (proper shelter and clean air, water and food).
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:06 pm...
I've lost the desire to respond further to your comments as most of them are not based in any kind of proven reality.... it's just you making claims and wanting me to go along with them (such as talking to your god :lol: ). I guess when we follow the questions long enough, the train inevitably must come off the rails into fantasy land.

But thanks for the discussion and entertainment while it lasted.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:13 pm Well, Lacewing, based on my own personal assessment of your thread so far, I suggest that there seems to be at least one thing that we can definitely understand about the "religious mindset." And that one thing is that each religion...

(be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., etc.)

...is like a mind-imprisoning "bubble" that, for the most part, is constructed from mythological nonsense that acts as the binding agent that holds the bubble together - a binding agent that, in some cases, is strengthened by stern warnings of horrific eternal punishments if one tries to exit the bubble.
That seems to be the case.

Ah, this wonderful image...

Image

...has been one of my favorites for a long time! I had it as a sticker on my car window years ago.
seeds wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:13 pm I'm afraid that the conditions within some of the bubbles can cause their prisoners to not only say some pretty ignorant things about the creative source of the universe (as is witnessed in this thread),...

...but also cause them to exhibit some extremely bizarre mannerisms...
Indeed! Shocking and fascinating. Such people have no clue of what ELSE there is other than their enraptured, babbling delusion.

Wonderfully... despite such foolishness and destructiveness, they can be loved... just as everyone ELSE can be loved. There IS such love as THAT! Self-righteous people haven't seemed to discover that it can ALL be loved. Such love isn't dependent on the judgments of the human level. Some theists speak of a god having such great love, while not really understanding it in any way themselves.

As for this...

Image

Hey, I'd be happy to hit people with a pillow case if it would enlighten them. Doesn't look like it's working though. :lol:
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:12 pm Actually, what Mr. Can seems to have the most trouble understanding is that fate could have allowed for a tiny little shift in Mr. Can's situation wherein he could have been born from the womb of a Hindu mother, or Buddhist mother, or a Muslim mother and thus have been brainwashed into accepting the doctrines of one of those other religions.

Which means that, were it not for the sheer chance of where he was awakened into life on this planet,...

...then he himself would be on the receiving end of every disparaging remark he makes regarding the grim destiny that awaits all those who were NOT born into a family and society where one is introduced to the "right" religion (which, in this case, would have been him).

And the point is that God is not going to punish (or reward) anyone based on where (or when) they were awakened into life in this "crapshoot" system of soul-birthing that God herself created.
_______
Excellent point!!!
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:51 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:04 pm I read "A Canticle for Leibowitz" years ago. I thought little of it -- not because it offends me, and far less because its suggestions are somehow threatening -- but because it gets the observational dimension of its' "speculations" so badly wrong. It's just not very good, in my opinion. Certainly nowhere near the former two.
now i am weary of you as a person of honesty. we've talked about Miller Jr' work now for 2? monts now - and now you tell me you read it?
I had forgotten who the author was, since it was a considerable time ago that I read it, and you're not exactly lucid when you're under the influence, so I wasn't really clear for a long while what book you were asking me to read...just that it was lengthy, speculative sci-fi.

In any case, politeness would have dictated you that you should have stopped pressing me on it, and to have accepted a flat and polite "No thanks," in the first place, instead of going on about it for two months. That was your decision; I was happy to move on long ago.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:09 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:06 pm...
I've lost the desire to respond further ...
That's your prerogative. Conversation is always by consent. Thank you for your time.
Belinda
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Belinda »

FrankGSterleJr wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:38 am Upon the recent discovery of the mass grave at the former Kamloops (B.C., Canada) Indian Residential (Catholic) School site, containing the remains of 215 indigenous children, many people of the faith likely need to believe that such an atrocious occurrence could only have happened 'long ago'/'in the past'; and, more importantly, their church and humanity therefore could/would not allow such inhumanity to happen again in our much more civilized, modern times. I, however, doubt that is the way large-scale societies — let alone border-segregated, independent nations — necessarily behave as wholes.

After 34 years of news consumption, I have found that a disturbingly large number of categorized people, however precious their souls, can be considered thus treated as though disposable, even to an otherwise democratic nation. When the young children of those people take notice of this, tragically, they’re vulnerable to begin perceiving themselves as beings without value. When I say this, I primarily have in mind indigenous-nation (and Black) Canadians and Americans. But, tragically, such horrendous occurrences still happen on Earth, often enough going unrealized to the rest of the world.

It wasn't a racial genocide, but it was a serious attempt at annihilating indigenous-nation culture. ... The indigenous children's mass grave, as sadly anticipated as the find was (and others are expected), must not be in vain. It needs to mark the start of a substantial progressive move forward for indigenous nations, especially regarding life’s fundamental necessities (proper shelter and clean air, water and food).
Thank you for your post . True "our much more civilised modern times". Also true
" doubt that is the way large-scale societies — let alone border-segregated, independent nations — necessarily behave as wholes. "

Your main theme is not the function in societies of religion, and your main theme is more important, however these two points I have copied show that religion, the function of which is to embody the morals of a society, also further divides peoples from separate societies.

One way to overcome this divisiveness was that undertaken by the Roman Catholic Church. Christianised Rome mightily influenced European culture by its civilising effect. Unfortunately the religion became its own deity and that is what happens to all ideologies including communism.

If we add the Kamloops tragedy to pandemic and climate change we have more than sufficient evidence that universalism (inclusion, i.e. loyalty to and concern for others without regard to national or other allegiances. )
must become the main moral tenet of all societies.
Belinda
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Belinda »

FrankGSterleJr wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:38 am Upon the recent discovery of the mass grave at the former Kamloops (B.C., Canada) Indian Residential (Catholic) School site, containing the remains of 215 indigenous children, many people of the faith likely need to believe that such an atrocious occurrence could only have happened 'long ago'/'in the past'; and, more importantly, their church and humanity therefore could/would not allow such inhumanity to happen again in our much more civilized, modern times. I, however, doubt that is the way large-scale societies — let alone border-segregated, independent nations — necessarily behave as wholes.

After 34 years of news consumption, I have found that a disturbingly large number of categorized people, however precious their souls, can be considered thus treated as though disposable, even to an otherwise democratic nation. When the young children of those people take notice of this, tragically, they’re vulnerable to begin perceiving themselves as beings without value. When I say this, I primarily have in mind indigenous-nation (and Black) Canadians and Americans. But, tragically, such horrendous occurrences still happen on Earth, often enough going unrealized to the rest of the world.

It wasn't a racial genocide, but it was a serious attempt at annihilating indigenous-nation culture. ... The indigenous children's mass grave, as sadly anticipated as the find was (and others are expected), must not be in vain. It needs to mark the start of a substantial progressive move forward for indigenous nations, especially regarding life’s fundamental necessities (proper shelter and clean air, water and food).
Thank you for your post . True "our much more civilised modern times". Also true
" doubt that is the way large-scale societies — let alone border-segregated, independent nations — necessarily behave as wholes. "

Your main theme is not the function in societies of religion, and your main theme is more important, however these two points I have copied show that religion, the function of which is to embody the morals of a society, also further divides peoples from separate societies.

One way to overcome this divisiveness was that undertaken by the Roman Catholic Church. Christianised Rome mightily influenced European culture by its civilising effect. Unfortunately the religion became its own deity and that is what happens to all ideologies including communism.

If we add the Kamloops tragedy to pandemic and climate change we have more than sufficient evidence that universalism (inclusion, i.e. loyalty to and concern for others without regard to national or other allegiances. )
must become the main moral tenet of all societies.
seeds
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:42 am
seeds wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:13 pm I'm afraid that the conditions within some of the bubbles can cause their prisoners to not only say some pretty ignorant things about the creative source of the universe (as is witnessed in this thread),...

...but also cause them to exhibit some extremely bizarre mannerisms...
Indeed! Shocking and fascinating. Such people have no clue of what ELSE there is other than their enraptured, babbling delusion.
Agreed.
Lacewing wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:42 am As for this...

Image

Hey, I'd be happy to hit people with a pillow case if it would enlighten them. Doesn't look like it's working though. :lol:
Nah, that's not a pillow case, that's Benny's suit coat, better known as the "Holy Shroud of Hinn." It is said to deliver a shocking burst of enlightenment to all those he strikes with it...

...(or it could be something felt from the rolls of quarters he loads in the pockets :D).

He used to use rocks, but now that he's said to have a personal net worth of around 60 million dollars, he can afford a more expensive way of blessing his followers.

Think of the scene in the gif as being Benny's version of the way Pete Townshend of the Who used to smash his guitar at the end of a show.

Image

The general rule of thumb is that the greater and more outrageous the spectacle is in the arena, then the greater the profits will be.
_______
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:41 pm that's Benny's suit coat, better known as the "Holy Shroud of Hinn." It is said to deliver a shocking burst of enlightenment to all those he strikes with it...
Why is it only men going up there? Shouldn't we see some women jumping on the heap, wearing their dresses, with their high-heels flying off? The men probably stand up from their seat and say, "You wait here, honey... this enlightenment stuff is for men only." :lol: :lol:
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attofishpi
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by attofishpi »

Lacewing wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:39 pm
seeds wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:41 pm that's Benny's suit coat, better known as the "Holy Shroud of Hinn." It is said to deliver a shocking burst of enlightenment to all those he strikes with it...
Why is it only men going up there? Shouldn't we see some women jumping on the heap, wearing their dresses, with their high-heels flying off? The men probably stand up from their seat and say, "You wait here, honey... this enlightenment stuff is for men only." :lol: :lol:
American "religions" apart from Americans in general in every other form of existence R weird as fuck.
gaffo
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:43 am
gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:51 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:04 pm I read "A Canticle for Leibowitz" years ago. I thought little of it -- not because it offends me, and far less because its suggestions are somehow threatening -- but because it gets the observational dimension of its' "speculations" so badly wrong. It's just not very good, in my opinion. Certainly nowhere near the former two.
now i am weary of you as a person of honesty. we've talked about Miller Jr' work now for 2? monts now - and now you tell me you read it?
I had forgotten who the author was, since it was a considerable time ago that I read it, and you're not exactly lucid when you're under the influence, so I wasn't really clear for a long while what book you were asking me to read...just that it was lengthy, speculative sci-fi.

In any case, politeness would have dictated you that you should have stopped pressing me on it, and to have accepted a flat and polite "No thanks," in the first place, instead of going on about it for two months. That was your decision; I was happy to move on long ago.
ya - understood, you and veg are the same.

tanks for noting bubba. one more rason to leave this formum, a man i respected ends up just like Veg - blaiming me for his poor memory and then asserting rudness by me forasking the other to take 10 hours over a period of 10 weeks.


so ya in effect you say "fuck me" - well bubba i say the same to you "Sir" fuck you!


maybe you and veg can kep each other warm.


i thought you offered someting - my mistake - you get your panties in a bunch and end up no differcetn that veg.


offering nothing here.


PS tanks for showing your lack of characher


and you're not exactly lucid when you're under the influence


ya when im drunk i wish to talk to others - when sober i don't give a shit about anyone nor talking to others.


so without me being drunk i would never have talked to you - and now with your moral sup attitude i now know i have no need to talk to you ever - drunk nor sober.

get stuffed "sir".
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:54 am ...you and veg are the same.
Well, I don't know if Veg will be happy about that...but if you say so, I guess. I can't imagine how. :lol:
...in effect you say "fuck me"
Actually, you'll find I never say that, or anything like that. I simply declined a topic in which I had no particular interest. That's not personal. It's just what people do.

You might find you're wildly overreacting.
and you're not exactly lucid when you're under the influence
ya when im drunk i wish to talk to others - when sober i don't give a shit about anyone nor talking to others.
It's just an observation...and it's true for everyone, so it's not personal. Nobody's sharper drunk than sober.

So relax. You're not being criticized or attacked.

But it's an interesting revelation. I remember being told that all alcohol does is drop inhibitions...that it doesn't actually change will or add new inclinations. So that would suggest you actually maybe want to talk, but are too anxious without the aid of the alcohol.

Is that right? Is that how you actually feel about it?
so without me being drunk i would never have talked to you
That's also interesting.

I'm not at all drunk, and I would talk to you. I am, in fact.

I think you'll find you've misunderstood. But it may be hard to convince you of that, if, as you say, the only time when you feel you want to communicate is when you're under the influence, but it's true.

If you wish to go, of course you can. But I'm not asking you to.
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Sculptor
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Sculptor »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:42 am
seeds wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:13 pm Well, Lacewing, based on my own personal assessment of your thread so far, I suggest that there seems to be at least one thing that we can definitely understand about the "religious mindset." And that one thing is that each religion...

(be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., etc.)

...is like a mind-imprisoning "bubble" that, for the most part, is constructed from mythological nonsense that acts as the binding agent that holds the bubble together - a binding agent that, in some cases, is strengthened by stern warnings of horrific eternal punishments if one tries to exit the bubble.
That seems to be the case.

Ah, this wonderful image...

Image

...has been one of my favorites for a long time! I had it as a sticker on my car window years ago.
Although I am not sure what this image is supposed to convey I do not think it matches the sentiment to which you are responding.
Could be wrong, but seems to be an image in advocacy to the concept of superlunary physics. Not so much seeing out of your bubble but more like accepting the the bubble is real
seeds wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:13 pm I'm afraid that the conditions within some of the bubbles can cause their prisoners to not only say some pretty ignorant things about the creative source of the universe (as is witnessed in this thread),...

...but also cause them to exhibit some extremely bizarre mannerisms...
Indeed! Shocking and fascinating. Such people have no clue of what ELSE there is other than their enraptured, babbling delusion.

Wonderfully... despite such foolishness and destructiveness, they can be loved... just as everyone ELSE can be loved. There IS such love as THAT! Self-righteous people haven't seemed to discover that it can ALL be loved. Such love isn't dependent on the judgments of the human level. Some theists speak of a god having such great love, while not really understanding it in any way themselves.

As for this...

Image
Clearly staged in some way, but again not sure what the paricipants are trying to convey here.
Does the image have a history.
:lol: My first reaction, thought it said BENNY HILL was coming. Quite a sever reaction to line up for tickets

Hey, I'd be happy to hit people with a pillow case if it would enlighten them. Doesn't look like it's working though. :lol:
Why not just use bullets - at least they'd find the answer to the question about meeting your maker.
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