Understanding the religious mindset

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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seeds
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

seeds wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:46 pm I must admit that I find myself at a loss as to what that "best way" might be when appeals to what seems like common sense simply bounce-off the impenetrable barriers that others have erected around their rigid "mindsets."

I mean, what in the world can you possibly say to these guys...
Lacewing wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 5:07 pm Maybe that's where some kind of collective telepathy might come in handy!
I like that.

Or perhaps Rupert Sheldrake's hypothesis of "morphic resonance" might be a better candidate to facilitate change, as is described in Scientific American:
Scientific American wrote: Morphic resonance, Sheldrake says, is "the idea of mysterious telepathy-type interconnections between organisms and of collective memories within species" and accounts for phantom limbs, how dogs know when their owners are coming home, and how people know when someone is staring at them.
However (and I'm just spitballing now), if such things truly existed, then surely the collective telepathy of the vast number of children in hunger and poverty throughout the world would be getting through to those who could end it, yet it still persists.

Or the collective telepathy of the millions of subjugated and abused Muslim females would be creating a change in their plight, yet it too persists....

...Though come to think of it, maybe their combined telepathic prayers are indeed creating a change by reason of the fact that their uneven societies are constantly fraught with turmoil and destruction...

(which, ironically, is something that is facilitated by yet another existent evil - "Western imperialism and greed" - you're welcome)

...which, hopefully, will eventually lead to a positive transformation away from that dreadfully lopsided [male-centric] religion.
Lacewing wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 5:07 pm I agree with you, it's hard to know what's best to do sometimes. On this forum, I think the deciding factor is whether I can learn or have fun with it, and if neither... step away. It can ebb and flow with people on this forum, as everything/everyone seems to ebb and flow... and if you can catch the right moment to throw your bucket at them... it might get through.
That's an excellent observation, Lacewing, especially the "ebb and flow" part.

And in regards to this comment from an earlier post:
Lacewing wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:41 am I guess we have to reach a tipping point, where archaic thinking fades away swiftly -- as other modes of thinking have shifted quickly in recent years. There are those who bitterly resist for awhile, but the tide is bigger than perhaps they see, and it brings change on multiple levels.
Yes.

And I guess the question is will that "tipping point" come by means of a Darwinian-like adaptation of our "mental beaks," so to speak, to the changing social environment created by the exponentially growing tide of new ideas and information?...

...Or...

...Will it come in the form of a worldwide nuclear conflagration that wipes the slate clean?

Unfortunately, we seem to be heading toward option number two, which may indeed be the only way to set humanity on a completely new course.
seeds wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:46 pmAnd that's when I realized that all I can do is, again, plant seeds of higher thoughts in the hope that they will sprout some day.
Lacewing wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 5:07 pm And you do. I find kindness and clarity in your words, and I feel benefited by them. You reflect a brighter potential than some of the other reflections demonstrated on this forum. You are a reminder of the balance.
Thank you, Lacewing. And right back atcha!
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Sculptor
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Sculptor »

Reason demands that belief follows truth.
It's right to believe that which is true.

The religious mindset has this precisey backwards.

Anything they believe thay take to be true.
Worse still they take this tendancy to be a virtue, a virtue they call Faith.
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attofishpi
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by attofishpi »

seeds wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:03 pm
Lacewing wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:32 pm I would never go into a church to argue with some dear little old lady quietly holding her Bible...
That's because you are a good and loving person who clearly is in possession of a great deal of wisdom.
1. SEEDS - What is this GREAT DEAL of wisdom that Lacewing posseses?
Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:07 pm ...ancient imaginings and stories, as if they could possibly be more relevant than what is evident and present today?
However, that brings me back to the question of what you personally think is "evident and present today" that that little old lady would be willing to accept as a replacement for the beliefs that she holds dear?

I mean, we can't just say "...look, the mythological nonsense you believe in is crazy..." and just leave it at that. So, from a practical standpoint, I am asking you, what reading materials, or what modern-day concepts would you literally place in her hands in exchange for her Bible?

1. Why do you presume because an old lady is holding a bible in a church that she believes in EVERYTHING contained within - such that you hold some mightier superior position over her?
2. You are the one espousing that there is GREAT potential in present day concepts - so DO ENLIGHTEN US. ...ooo pleaaaasee.

attofishpi wrote:
Lacewing wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:32 pm
seeds wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:03 pmwhat reading materials, or what modern-day concepts would you literally place in her hands in exchange for her Bible?
Good question! :D Well, I tend to try to model what I want to show and share with people. To show them what else is possible. To break the rules and stretch beyond limited belief. So I would connect with that little old lady in a way that we would share light between us, and I would not try to dislodge her Bible from her hands. The beliefs are actually not as important as the actions/behavior that come from the beliefs.
Nah. It wasn't a good question. In all likelihood the "little" old lady like most takes the bible and its contents with a pinch of salt, and does see a lot more beyond the stories\metaphors contained within.
U condescending twat.
Lacewing wrote:Attofishpi appears (as he has before) to be limited by his delusions and anger, and is lashing out. It's no wonder he distorts and distrusts the concept of connection and broader potential.
seems to me that the [evolution of human culture and awareness naturally offers more potential to consider


1. Please explain my DELUSION (which might expain why I am constantly ANGRY with you - since you can never explain this 'delusion'.
2. Please, oh please, oh please U 'spiritual' 'atheist' (contradiction right there = delusion) - what us this 'connection and broader potential'!!
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attofishpi
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by attofishpi »

Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:12 pm Reason demands that belief follows truth.
It's right to believe that which is true.
Faith was required for knowledge of God's existence - reason then follows from the Truth of ITS existence.
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:12 pmThe religious mindset has this precisey backwards.
Atheists cannot be true philosophers.

Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:12 pmAnything they believe thay take to be true.
No they don't - it remains a belief - until revelation.
Walker
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Walker »

seeds wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:47 pm Walker, you're still not showing me how your silly Biden obsession has anything to do with the point I was making.
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My point is far more significant, important, and philosophical than anything you've dredged up so far, although your KKK obsession is relevant to Biden's well-known racism.

So, there's no logical reason to bother with your drift.


My point ...

What is the most precious to each and every person?
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Sculptor
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Sculptor »

attofishpi wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 6:16 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:12 pm Reason demands that belief follows truth.
It's right to believe that which is true.
Faith was required for knowledge of God's existence - reason then follows from the Truth of ITS existence.
That's easy - since god does not exist there is no need for faith that god exists.
So there is no need for "need".
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:12 pmThe religious mindset has this precisey backwards.
Atheists cannot be true philosophers.
Atheists are the ONLY true philosophers.
Faith is the mind killer.
The resort of the weak minded and stupid.

Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:12 pmAnything they believe they take to be true.
No they don't - it remains a belief - until revelation.
Belief is when you don't have any information to know, so you just make up what ever you want.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

You guys, Walker and Atto, are submitting nonsensical questions and claims that apparently only make sense in your own heads. Whatever mental channel you're on appears to be too full of noise to discern anything other than that, and that's why it seems pointless to talk with you about much of anything.
Walker wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 6:50 am My point ...

What is the most precious to each and every person?
How is that a point? It varies.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

attofishpi wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 6:13 am U 'spiritual' 'atheist' (contradiction right there = delusion) - what us this 'connection and broader potential'!!
Spirituality (focusing on the spirit and connection throughout everything) does not require theism. There is connection and broader potential in all directions, which means there is naturally no single answer.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

attofishpi wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 6:13 am which might expain why I am constantly ANGRY with you - since you can never explain this 'delusion'.
Please explain what being an angry drunk says about the clarity and logic of your beliefs.
Belinda
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Belinda »

Walker wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:58 am
seeds wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:27 pm
seeds wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:03 pm
Image
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Walker wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:30 am Image
“They're going to put y'all back in chains!"
- The Masked Bandit.


Image
It is interesting to note that purely symbolic face coverings might make some slight difference to the number of viruses one breathes into the surrounding air. However one presumes the President wears a medical grade face mask whereas the religious women and the KluKluxKlan men are unconcerned about hygienic masks.
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Sculptor
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Sculptor »

Belinda wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:34 pm
Walker wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:58 am
seeds wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:27 pm
“They're going to put y'all back in chains!"
- The Masked Bandit.


Image
It is interesting to note that purely symbolic face coverings might make some slight difference to the number of viruses one breathes into the surrounding air. However one presumes the President wears a medical grade face mask whereas the religious women and the KluKluxKlan men are unconcerned about hygienic masks.
I suppose the Muslim woman are stoping virtual viruses of sexual desire getting out.
The KKK are stopping viruses of identity.
Medical Masks stop slow viruses leaving the body, but also slow viruses entering.
What do the masks of the KKK and the Muslim women stop getting in, I wonder - humanity, maybe?
Belinda
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Belinda »

Sculptor wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:40 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:34 pm
Walker wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:58 am
“They're going to put y'all back in chains!"
- The Masked Bandit.


Image
It is interesting to note that purely symbolic face coverings might make some slight difference to the number of viruses one breathes into the surrounding air. However one presumes the President wears a medical grade face mask whereas the religious women and the KluKluxKlan men are unconcerned about hygienic masks.
I suppose the Muslim woman are stoping virtual viruses of sexual desire getting out.
The KKK are stopping viruses of identity.
Medical Masks stop slow viruses leaving the body, but also slow viruses entering.
What do the masks of the KKK and the Muslim women stop getting in, I wonder - humanity, maybe?


I'd rather say common humanity. Religiosity and KuKluXKlan are divisive, whereas science and its off-spin, hygienic face masks, include us in common humanity.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:11 pm I'd rather say common humanity. Religiosity and KuKluXKlan are divisive, whereas science and its off-spin, hygienic face masks, include us in common humanity.
The KKK was not a religious organization, B.

It was constituted by Democrats in the old South, as the militant wing of the southern Democrat party. Its purpose was political and racial intimidation. Any of the ostensibly "religious" elements, such as the hierarchy or the signals, were actually just borrowings from other "secrecy" groups like the Freemasons. But there never was a "KKK religion," though there were KKK politics and racial views, for sure.

Once their brief "racial war" was decisively lost, they faded into the past, and are pretty much now merely a historical curiosity. They had no endurance, because they had no real agenda but the perpetuation of the Democrat racial policies in the South, and of Segregation in particular. Once that was gone, so were they....though they once had been so strong that they were allowed to march down the main avenue of Washington D.C.

Under the Democrats, back in 1925, they numbered perhaps 6 million. In the present, generous estimates are 3,000.
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henry quirk
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by henry quirk »

science and its off-spin, hygienic face masks, include us in common humanity

Seems to me science, as process, is neutral while science!, the product, the movement, is anything but.

In the same way: masks, as tool, can be beneficial while masks!, as product, as movement, as symbol, has done nuthin' but divide.
seeds
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

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I was hoping not to be lured into the wallow. Oh well, it's either this or Saturday morning cartoons (or both).
Walker wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 6:50 am My point ...

What is the most precious to each and every person?
Well, at least in one particular situation, it depends on if your name is "Sméagol." In which case, that which is precious is "the one ring to rule them all."

Hey, this is fun.

Are you practicing in the hopes of becoming the new Jeopardy host?

If so, then you need to word it like this:

Something that was "precious" to Gollum?

Then we say:

Alex (I mean Walker):

What is the one ring....?
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Last edited by seeds on Sat May 08, 2021 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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