Understanding the religious mindset

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

attofishpi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:42 am Sober atto doesn't care too much dealing with what drunk atto had to say.
Why is that?

What would sober atto say to drunk atto?
seeds
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

attofishpi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:42 am Sober atto doesn't care too much dealing with what drunk atto had to say.
Well, in that case, perhaps sober atto (Jekyll) could get his computer equipped with some kind of breathalyzer apparatus that can prevent drunk atto (Mr. Hyde) from logging on to PN....

...(Though I suppose that is a useless suggestion, seeing how by his own admission, sober atto doesn't seem to even care about the damage that drunk atto causes.)
attofishpi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:42 am Since being told a few things about my previous life, I have often wondered how many lifetimes I go back - and when my soul first came into existence.
Yes, even Buddha is famous for his alleged recollection of a large number of prior human incarnations. Indeed, he is said to have recounted "...almost 554 past life stories..." - Wiki.

With that in mind, the following point might be a little difficult to visualize, but I suggest that one of the main problems with reincarnation is that most of its proponents (again, even the Buddha) usually proclaim (or assume) that very little time elapses between their deaths and rebirths into new human bodies on earth.

However, according to Wiki [bracketed interjections mine]...
Wiki wrote: It took over 2 million years of human prehistory and history for the world's population to reach 1 billion [allegedly in 1804], and only 200 years more to reach 7 billion [allegedly sometime around 2012].
That means that in the year 1804 (a mere 217 years ago) there were at least 6 billion human souls "waiting in the wings," so to speak, for access to a human body....

...(And that isn't even taking into account the potential doubling of the human population that could possibly take place within the next hundred years.)

So the question is, why would you, or the Buddha, or anyone else be allowed to hog-up bodies in a huge number of consecutively occurring births when so many other souls need one in order to advance in their spiritual status?

Well, one of the logical ways to get around that problem is to realize that vast numbers of un-incarnate souls aren't actually "waiting in the wings" for a body to become available, but are in fact newly formed when a human is born.

Again, reincarnation is a very problematic (if not utterly false) concept.
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uwot
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by uwot »

seeds wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:45 amSo what's the solution, uwot? Time? Atomic bombs? The dawning of the Age of Aquarius? What?
Same as it ever was, me old china: the lovers just have to stand up to the fighters.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

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seeds wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 pm So the question is, why would you, or the Buddha, or anyone else be allowed to hog-up bodies in a huge number of consecutively occurring births when so many other souls need one in order to advance in their spiritual status?
:) Love it.

Here's another idea... each human could be comprised of a collective of souls, rather than just one soul. Upon death, the collective may disperse in various ways.
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attofishpi
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by attofishpi »

Lacewing wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:48 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:42 am Sober atto doesn't care too much dealing with what drunk atto had to say.
Why is that?

What would sober atto say to drunk atto?
They don't talk to each other, I am simply stating I don't respond to others responding to what drunk atto had to say - cos he's an arsehole :wink:
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attofishpi
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

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seeds wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:42 am Sober atto doesn't care too much dealing with what drunk atto had to say.
Well, in that case, perhaps sober atto (Jekyll) could get his computer equipped with some kind of breathalyzer apparatus that can prevent drunk atto (Mr. Hyde) from logging on to PN....

...(Though I suppose that is a useless suggestion, seeing how by his own admission, sober atto doesn't seem to even care about the damage that drunk atto causes.)
Drunk atto exists because atto has just been put through HELL for two months since Feb when he crossed a certain line that sage\God had set (since 1997) - in fact - it was the worst experience of HELL that I have had - and they told me it is my final. I use lots of alcohol to get me through it - now that reality is back to normal and I haven't heard a peep out of the for over a week - no excuse to get drunk I spose.

seeds wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:42 am Since being told a few things about my previous life, I have often wondered how many lifetimes I go back - and when my soul first came into existence.
Yes, even Buddha is famous for his alleged recollection of a large number of prior human incarnations. Indeed, he is said to have recounted "...almost 554 past life stories..." - Wiki.

With that in mind, the following point might be a little difficult to visualize, but I suggest that one of the main problems with reincarnation is that most of its proponents (again, even the Buddha) usually proclaim (or assume) that very little time elapses between their deaths and rebirths into new human bodies on earth.

However, according to Wiki [bracketed interjections mine]...
Wiki wrote: It took over 2 million years of human prehistory and history for the world's population to reach 1 billion [allegedly in 1804], and only 200 years more to reach 7 billion [allegedly sometime around 2012].
That means that in the year 1804 (a mere 217 years ago) there were at least 6 billion human souls "waiting in the wings," so to speak, for access to a human body....
No, as you have stated via the quote, in 1804 1 billion people existed. 200 years later 7 billion people - fine.
I have had this conversation many years ago with Arising_UK, we need to remember that every 60-70 yrs people die and possibly reborn.
That means that its not simply tallying up the number of people in a particular point in time, since those people at any particular point in time could be ALL the collated souls from the traversal through time of ALL those previous souls.

Also - how soon they are reborn (AND) if they ARE reborn as human 666 important here, does everyone have the right to be reborn wo\man based on their actions?

seeds wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 pm...(And that isn't even taking into account the potential doubling of the human population that could possibly take place within the next hundred years.)

So the question is, why would you, or the Buddha, or anyone else be allowed to hog-up bodies in a huge number of consecutively occurring births when so many other souls need one in order to advance in their spiritual status?

Well, one of the logical ways to get around that problem is to realize that vast numbers of un-incarnate souls aren't actually "waiting in the wings" for a body to become available, but are in fact newly formed when a human is born.

Again, reincarnation is a very problematic (if not utterly false) concept.
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Dunno, I am only going by what the sage told me in Nov 2005 - the night he introduced himself - and indeed - what I know of the capability with the attributes of this God entity.
Belinda
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Belinda »

uwot wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:44 pm
seeds wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:45 amSo what's the solution, uwot? Time? Atomic bombs? The dawning of the Age of Aquarius? What?
Same as it ever was, me old china: the lovers just have to stand up to the fighters.
Uwot, I want to join the club.
uwot
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by uwot »

Belinda wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:51 am
uwot wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:44 pm
seeds wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:45 amSo what's the solution, uwot? Time? Atomic bombs? The dawning of the Age of Aquarius? What?
Same as it ever was, me old china: the lovers just have to stand up to the fighters.
Uwot, I want to join the club.
It's not much of a club, to be honest, and I suspect you are already a member. There's only one rule: respect is automatic. It doesn't have to earned, but it can be lost.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

attofishpi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:24 am
Lacewing wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:48 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:42 am Sober atto doesn't care too much dealing with what drunk atto had to say.
Why is that?

What would sober atto say to drunk atto?
They don't talk to each other, I am simply stating I don't respond to others responding to what drunk atto had to say - cos he's an arsehole :wink:
Ah... pretend it isn't there, while pretending others things are there. :wink:
seeds
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

seeds wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:56 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:34 pm It is interesting to note that purely symbolic face coverings might make some slight difference to the number of viruses one breathes into the surrounding air. However one presumes the President wears a medical grade face mask whereas the religious women and the KluKluxKlan men are unconcerned about hygienic masks.
I'm not sure how this conversation morphed into a debate about masks (oh wait,...it's because of Walker), but my initial use of the KKK images, especially this one...

Image

...was to demonstrate that it is usually the circumstances of our birth that functions as one of the primary means by which ideological "mindsets" (be they religious or something else) are perpetuated.
Belinda wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:26 pm The main aim of teachers is to give people more choices so they do not have to feel inevitably attached to their native cultures but can think for themselves.
Belinda, what teachers are you referring to?

Furthermore, take a closer look at the picture and notice that underneath the robe and dunce cap of the Klansman holding his hand over the infant, there appears to be a male who is dressed in a white shirt and suit coat.

And what that suggests to me is that person could very well be a middle school or high school teacher in the area where this photo was taken. Indeed, he could even be the pastor of a nearby ("whites only") church (where he allegedly teaches the Christian values of "love and brotherhood," of all things).

In which case, do you really think that that possible teacher (or pastor) is truly interested in making that child feel less attached to its native culture, while teaching him (or her) to "think for themselves"?

The point is that "teachers" in general (be they secular or religious) are not immune to a societal brainwashing that turns them into bigoted idiots.

Keep in mind that in response to the theme of Lacewing's OP, I am simply pointing out one of the primary means by which religious (and societal) "mindsets" are established and perpetuated.
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seeds
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

Lacewing wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:06 am
seeds wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 pm So the question is, why would you, or the Buddha, or anyone else be allowed to hog-up bodies in a huge number of consecutively occurring births when so many other souls need one in order to advance in their spiritual status?
:) Love it.

Here's another idea... each human could be comprised of a collective of souls, rather than just one soul. Upon death, the collective may disperse in various ways.
That's interesting, Lacewing, and you are now entering into a territory of speculative ideas that I love to think about and talk about.

So then, are you suggesting that each human mind might be composed of a "Borg-like" collective of individual souls?

How would that work?

For one thing...

(other than that pestering gnat of a voice that keeps reminding me of all of the stupid, and hurtful, and embarrassing things I've done throughout my life :D).

...when I close my eyes I can only sense the presence of what seems to be a singular "I am-ness" that I call "me."

Furthermore, when I look within, I find myself in control of a matrix of mental imaging energy that I can grasp with my will and shape into absolutely anything I desire.

So the question is, would these "other souls" (whose presence I have no awareness of) have the same degree of control over the same matrix of mental imaging energy to where they could create something that is independent of my awareness?...

...Or...

...Would this collective of souls simply (and simultaneously) see and experience the exact same thing appearing before our collective (yet individual) perspectives (such as simultaneously experiencing the exact same thought of an apple, or the exact same dream, or the exact same impulse to raise an arm to scratch an itch, etc., etc.)?

Btw, while we're at this, how about you give a quick description of what you think a "soul" actually is?
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henry quirk
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

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how about you give a quick description of what you think a "soul" actually is?

My two cents...

Information, software, distinct from hardware.

Man, I reckon, is a composite being: spirit or soul and body; software & hardware; information and substance: two distinctly different things, each utterly dependent on the other.
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Lacewing
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:50 pm
Lacewing wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:06 am Here's another idea... each human could be comprised of a collective of souls, rather than just one soul. Upon death, the collective may disperse in various ways.
That's interesting, Lacewing, and you are now entering into a territory of speculative ideas that I love to think about and talk about.
Sounds fun!
seeds wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:50 pm So then, are you suggesting that each human mind might be composed of a "Borg-like" collective of individual souls?
I tend to think in terms of organic connections, rather than machine-like ones. I'll try to describe more about that below.
seeds wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:50 pm (other than that pestering gnat of a voice that keeps reminding me of all of the stupid, and hurtful, and embarrassing things I've done throughout my life :D)...
I have had one of those. It doesn't pester me much anymore. Maybe because I do tend to live in the moment, and I feel a lot of love/acceptance/gratitude most of the time. Maybe that in combination with the way my philosophy and perspectives have evolved to make sense of things. I see: it's all perfect as it is.
seeds wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:50 pm...when I close my eyes I can only sense the presence of what seems to be a singular "I am-ness" that I call "me."

Furthermore, when I look within, I find myself in control of a matrix of mental imaging energy that I can grasp with my will and shape into absolutely anything I desire.

So the question is, would these "other souls" (whose presence I have no awareness of) have the same degree of control over the same matrix of mental imaging energy to where they could create something that is independent of my awareness?...

...Or...

...Would this collective of souls simply (and simultaneously) see and experience the exact same thing appearing before our collective (yet individual) perspectives (such as simultaneously experiencing the exact same thought of an apple, or the exact same dream, or the exact same impulse to raise an arm to scratch an itch, etc., etc.)?
When I heard this idea years ago, of each person being a collection of souls, it somehow seemed to make sense. But I haven't thought a whole lot about it, rather, I've just noticed some things from time to time. In myself, I've seen a lot of different capability... so many things (for example, angel, devil, peacemaker, warrior, business woman, hippy, sharing partner, independent trailblazer, etc.). It's like a whole tribe aligned on the same path! :lol:

I've also thought about the quality of magnetism... like attracting like. Perhaps a collective of likeness provides a balance for exploring that potential available on a given path. Then at the end of that path (death), the collective disperses into other formations... some evolving further, some not. It's intriguing to think about how this might make sense.

It would be necessary for the collective to feel unified as an "I/me", so that they wouldn't fight amongst themselves too much. The human provides the appearance of a single/separate individual, and the ego can be used to establish a singular identity. Maybe schizophrenic experiences could be due to a lack of unity in the collective?

A collective could provide more potential on the path, perhaps, unless the ego drew all the focus and power. The trick, perhaps, is to utilize the potential and have fun with it, rather than getting stuck in an illusion and making up lots of stories to support that. Such an illusion would certainly be an option to play out, of course... despite there being so much more.

It is challenging to think beyond "I" to "we"... and perhaps even more challenging to stop identifying as anything separate at all. If there is only one/completeness here... of many forms/manifestations... there really is no other. There is no separateness to feel division from.

In observing nature, I can see how connected everything is... communicating, cooperating, flowing together... as one force. I see no reason that humans would not be part of that, even if they imagine they are separate from it. Human egos seem to be the blinding distractor. Egos can be a fun and convincing thing to play with, perhaps, but it seems they can easily limit greater potential: too consumed with themselves to recognize much else.
seeds wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:50 pm Btw, while we're at this, how about you give a quick description of what you think a "soul" actually is?
I guess I just think of it as energy. I don't think anything is unchanging, not even a soul. So I don't have this idea that it's a static thing. I do think energy can affect things, and be experienced.

??? I can hardly wait to hear your response. :D
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

henry quirk wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:00 am
seeds wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:50 pm how about you give a quick description of what you think a "soul" actually is?
My two cents...

Information, software, distinct from hardware.

Man, I reckon, is a composite being: spirit or soul and body; software & hardware; information and substance: two distinctly different things, each utterly dependent on the other.
That's a good analogy, henry. I like that.
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

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