Religion Is Insanity

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by gaffo »

Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:54 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:39 am I've never seen deception in IC's posts - can you prodie an example of?
Oh for fuck sake... like I have any interest in traipsing through a bunch of bullshit all over again to show you something. I don't care what you cannot see. Other people have seen it, and it has been brought up to I.C. countless times. We're moving on...
ok - lets move on then.

lets talk about the God of Love putting all born before the time of Christ and 9/10th of all after him into Hell forever.

thats my bag anyway/.

lets talk about a religoin with that type of God - one of such "love" lol.

make Belial look good in my book.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 6604
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by Lacewing »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:53 am
Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:45 am Well, of course the thread is about the insanity (or madness) that has occurred in religion...
No, it's not. Look at the wording. It claims that all "religion" IS "insanity."
That's true in part, especially of the opening post. But the discussion has included more than that.
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:53 am
Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:45 amI'm not trying to convince anyone to believe a certain thing.
if a person arrives at a discussion with no point worth speaking about at the start, what has he/she got to offer?
I think it's worth questioning what we think and believe because that is what everything else is built on and stems from. There are many reasonable potentials to point out... and that's certainly something to offer, no? When someone's belief system is so rigid as to dismiss all other potential, and reject all other people, that seems ridiculously unreasonable and worth challenging.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 6604
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by Lacewing »

gaffo wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:04 am ok - lets move on then.

lets talk about the God of Love putting all born before the time of Christ and 9/10th of all after him into Hell forever.

thats my bag anyway/.

lets talk about a religoin with that type of God - one of such "love" lol.

make Belial look good in my book.
Agreed. I would like to hear the answers to this too.
Dubious
Posts: 4000
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by Dubious »

gaffo wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:27 am
Dubious wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:47 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:45 am
I'm pretty sure you won't even find one that supports that impression, but okay. It's maybe an easier story to tell yourself, I guess.
Your perennial crusade against the infidel atheist is well-known and shows a tremendous amount of hate. I have no doubt that if you lived and had the power in the middle ages you would delight in consigning them all to the flames as an introduction to the everlasting fires of hell. For you that would be an act of faith, otherwise known as an auto-da-fé.
why do you slander a good man? what is your game?
Now let's see, how should I respond! Perhaps like this...!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

...but that would be an understatement! :shock:
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by gaffo »

Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:07 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:04 am ok - lets move on then.

lets talk about the God of Love putting all born before the time of Christ and 9/10th of all after him into Hell forever.

thats my bag anyway/.

lets talk about a religoin with that type of God - one of such "love" lol.

make Belial look good in my book.
Agreed. I would like to hear the answers to this too.
Absolutely!

note - I'm just an Athiest - i deny an afterlife so for me this life is the only one - none before nor after.

BUT "Beleivers" believe in the immortal soul. a soul all have from birth and AFTER - sinc this life is oly 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 of the timline of said soul the rest of the timeline of siad soul is POST DEATH of the boddy - so 99.99999999999999999999999999999 timeline of the soul is not while on this earth in this life, but in the after life.

so why would a God of Love care about actions of folks with an immortal soul - care only about waht that sold does while in the 0.0000000000000001 timeline and ignore all action that same sould does in the other 99.9999999999999999999 ttimline!!!!!!!!

think about it! sseriusly.

if we are immortal souls what we do hee should not matter compared to what we do after our physical death here on earth.

--but the book says the 0.00000000000000001 matters and the 99.99999999999999dpoes not.

so i burn forever due to what i do here in this time slice of 0.00000000000000000000001 of my sold and what id do the other 99.999999999999999999999999999999 - good or bad does not matter - i burn forever and ever.

God of Love and all that.
Walker
Posts: 14280
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by Walker »

gaffo wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:04 am
Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:54 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:39 am I've never seen deception in IC's posts - can you prodie an example of?
Oh for fuck sake... like I have any interest in traipsing through a bunch of bullshit all over again to show you something. I don't care what you cannot see. Other people have seen it, and it has been brought up to I.C. countless times. We're moving on...
ok - lets move on then.

lets talk about the God of Love putting all born before the time of Christ and 9/10th of all after him into Hell forever.

thats my bag anyway/.

lets talk about a religoin with that type of God - one of such "love" lol.

make Belial look good in my book.
gaffo old chap. Hell can only be known in the present. Heaven too.

First of all, before any meaningful discussion can take place, a premise must be accepted, for the premise is the basis of the discussion. In this case, the premise is the definition of God.

Therefore, the premise to define God and serve as the basis of discussion is … drumroll …

God is the nameless thing of a thousand names (credit J. Krishnamurti.)

Change that definition and you have a new premise, a new discussion if another accepts your new premise. That’s just the way things are.

Accepting this premise for the basis of discussion automatically eliminates any limiting projections concerning any concepts surrounding the God-concept that atheists attempt to foist upon others, such as God being a big old meanie. :roll:

Quite simply, humans have an inherent recognition of the divine … and so pluck one of the thousand names to attach to that recognition. For instance, the guiding-light North Star attaches to the recognition, a tangible light in the darkness which was likely recognized by humans long before Christianity, perhaps even long before language … even though there are always those individuals of every age who lack the capacity for recognition of the inherent.
uwot
Posts: 6093
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by uwot »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:25 amYou misunderstand: my point isn't that I have biases and prejudices that can color judgement (which I do; and they often do) but that you folks goin' after Mannie have biases and prejudices (which you admit to) that can color your judgements (which you say do color your judgements...and thank you for the admission).

If you have a prejudice, know it can or does skew your assessments, then mebbe Mannie isn't the crapsack you believe he is. Mebbe there's a bias skewin' your assessment of him.
You misunderstand. Confirmation bias is well understood by anyone who has studied science and philosophy. It is part of the training to recognise it in yourself and mitigate against it. An important resource to that end is peer review, and again care has to be taken to consider the dissenting opinions, otherwise you run into argumentum ad populum and you think you're right because most people agree with you. In the case of Mr Can, you are a rare voice of support; but your reason - that Mr Can is your buddy, which is a fine and noble thing - doesn't have the objective weight of the evidence of Mr Can being precisely the crapsack I believe he is, and which other contributors confirm. Like all hypotheses it is tentative and subject to review, but arguments rarely change hypotheses. What will stop people thinking Mr Can is a crapsack, is Mr Can behaving less like a crapsack.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by Dontaskme »

You can never know how much your imaginary God loves you.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8529
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by Sculptor »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:45 am You can never know how much your imaginary God loves you.
Yes you can. You can imagine you god loving you more than himself, or hating you like bacteria, if you want.
That is the beauty of religion. Making shit up means never having to appeal to reason or evidence.
User avatar
Sculptor
Posts: 8529
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:32 pm

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by Sculptor »

Walker wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:07 am
gaffo wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:04 am
Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:54 am
Oh for fuck sake... like I have any interest in traipsing through a bunch of bullshit all over again to show you something. I don't care what you cannot see. Other people have seen it, and it has been brought up to I.C. countless times. We're moving on...
ok - lets move on then.

lets talk about the God of Love putting all born before the time of Christ and 9/10th of all after him into Hell forever.

thats my bag anyway/.

lets talk about a religoin with that type of God - one of such "love" lol.

make Belial look good in my book.
gaffo old chap. Hell can only be known in the present. Heaven too.

First of all, before any meaningful discussion can take place, a premise must be accepted, for the premise is the basis of the discussion. In this case, the premise is the definition of God.

Therefore, the premise to define God and serve as the basis of discussion is … drumroll …

God is the nameless thing of a thousand names (credit J. Krishnamurti.)

Change that definition and you have a new premise, a new discussion if another accepts your new premise. That’s just the way things are.
In other words god is everything, therefore god is nothing. Meet Spinoza's god.
And all religions are null and void.

Accepting this premise for the basis of discussion automatically eliminates any limiting projections concerning any concepts surrounding the God-concept that atheists attempt to foist upon others, such as God being a big old meanie. :roll:
Not at all.
This definition, which comes from Krishnamurti - a man who rejected ALL religions is the perfect solution to atheism.
When god is the gun and the bullet and the grief and the racism and the race. When god is the sea and the sky and the love and the hate. God is rendered a completely meaningless concept.

Quite simply, humans have an inherent recognition of the divine
No - it you take from this "divinity" then you have completely misunderstood what Krishnamurti said.
… and so pluck one of the thousand names to attach to that recognition.
And from your misunderstanding you simply feed your personal delusion.
COngratualtions!
For instance, the guiding-light North Star attaches to the recognition, a tangible light in the darkness which was likely recognized by humans long before Christianity, perhaps even long before language … even though there are always those individuals of every age who lack the capacity for recognition of the inherent.
:roll: :roll:
QED - you last statement :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by RCSaunders »

seeds wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:37 pm Why does anyone have to claim to know?
For the same reason you do.
seeds wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:37 pm Because if they are going to insist that religion is insanity...

(with most religions basically being grounded in a common sense assumption that the order of the universe is not a product of chance)

...then it is incumbent upon the naysayer to provide a "logical" reason as to how and why the order exists.
It is not, "incumbent," on anyone to convince idiots they are idiots. To believe in anything not based on reasoning from evidence is superstition. That is the foundation of religion.

What is this, "order," you insist exists. Do you mean the universe has a nature and the sciences are able to discover the nature of those things which exist? Or do you mean something else. Except for human understanding, there is no, "order," in the univers. A universe of, "complete," order would be nothing. It's disorder, difference, and change that make existence possible--not order.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by RCSaunders »

Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:27 am I was saying I don't care that I "haven't convinced you". I don't post to convince you. (Do you post to convince me? No, of course not!) I post because it's fun and interesting to challenge the status quo and the absurd claims that people come up with.
Yes it is. That's my attitude as well.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 22257
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by Immanuel Can »

Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:05 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:53 am
Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:45 am Well, of course the thread is about the insanity (or madness) that has occurred in religion...
No, it's not. Look at the wording. It claims that all "religion" IS "insanity."
That's true in part, especially of the opening post. But the discussion has included more than that.
I haven't noticed that it's even got so far as defining its own key term, "religion." That seems awfully basic.
There are many reasonable potentials to point out... and that's certainly something to offer, no?
Sure. But one has to know something to offer anything: one has to have a premise even in order to generate a question. One has to have a sense of what "potentials" exist in order to point one out.
When someone's belief system is so rigid as to dismiss all other potential, and reject all other people, that seems ridiculously unreasonable and worth challenging.
Absolutely. But that bill actually fits the OP very well. It "dismisses all other potential" religions, calls "religious" people "insane," and is pretty obviously "ridiculously unreasonable" and grossly prejudicial, to boot -- an impression very well reinforced by the example it supplies.

So I think we're well within our brief to challenge it.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by RCSaunders »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:06 am
Lacewing wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:27 am I was saying I don't care that I "haven't convinced you".
That much, I can readily believe.

Likewise, this particular thread doesn't seem to be directed toward the advancing of any rational proposition. Having started with a rather bizarre outlier case, and having hastily generalized it to all "religion," it seems instead merely a flogging post around which can be rallied all those who wish not actually to think about "religion" at all.
The use of the prayer by a "Doctor of theology," as an example of the product of the insanity produced by religious belief was not a generalization of anything. The premise is, "religion is a form of mental defect." The example was only a sample of the product of that particular form of psychosis. No one has to accept the premise anymore than one has to accept the premise, "there is a supernatural realm," for which you provide what you think are examples all the time. I don't think you provide those examples as, "proof," of your religion but as examples of the consequence of not believing as you do.
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:06 am But I wonder why anybody would think philosophy was worthwhile if they came into the conversation already incapable of being convinced of anything they didn't already believe.
Frankly, anyone who takes anything that goes by the name, "philosophy," today seriously entertains a variety of insanity, as serious as, if not worse than, religion.

I totally agree with Mencken:

1. "So long as there are men in the world, 99 percent of them will be idiots, and so long as 99 percent of them are idiots they will thirst for religion ..."

2. "The costliest of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind.

The first pertains to religion. The second pertains to philosophy.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4704
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by RCSaunders »

gaffo wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:37 am BTW i like Hume!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol ;-/.
He was, apparently, an adequate historian, but his philosophy was a disaster. Have you really studied him? He thought, "concepts," (the foundation of epistemology) consisted of little abstract pictures in one's head, for example, and that, "cause," meant things that were similar and seemed to follow one another, as another. That was called philosophy. Oh well!
Post Reply