Religion Is Insanity

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dubious wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:52 am I forgot to add you're also known after years of experience on this site as a consummate liar, distorter and deceiver.
There it is. 8)

Hatred, bitterness, slander...they all come so easily to human nature. And they're all so wonderfully self-confirming and devoid of any serious duty or challenge to the self, as well. They don't require the perpetrator to become a better person, or to act with grace. They don't make one do anything at all...like, be patient, show mature judgment, speak truth, think things through, summon facts, collect evidence, use reason...they make the self feel good so very, very easily. No wonder we all resort to that so gladly.

I think it's safe to say RC's earlier query is adequately addressed now.
Walker
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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uwot wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:18 pm
Walker wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:25 amWhat would constitute proof of God for a blasphemer?
The same as for a godbotherer. Whatever theists do have, usually a dollop of wishful thinking, coated with blind faith and a sprinkling of batshit delusions, it ain't proof.
For impartial observers the evidence does suggest that when neither reality nor the bible comport with what is known and accepted * about the universe, then secularists invent dark matter to make equations and causation fit the known, while calling the causation-based explanations of the bible a fantasy in order to confirm secular limitations of comprehension.

Note: the underlined words in the quotation indicate non-scientific bias.


* The bible, which says the way things are, is often unacceptable to secularists and blasphemers because it does not say the way things should be ... and the mighty ego, inventor of dark matter to fit the equations, just cannot accept that. Those limited by imaginings of what should be to maintain the known order, rather than recognition of what is, are in fact the deluded. :wink:
Last edited by Walker on Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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henry quirk
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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uwot wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:18 pm
Walker wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:25 amWhat would constitute proof of God for a blasphemer?
The same as for a godbotherer. Whatever theists do have, usually a dollop of wishful thinking, coated with blind faith and a sprinkling of batshit delusions, it ain't proof.
Is it not possible to arrive at belief thru reason?
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henry quirk
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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Walker wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:53 pm
uwot wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:18 pm
Walker wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:25 amWhat would constitute proof of God for a blasphemer?
The same as for a godbotherer. Whatever theists do have, usually a dollop of wishful thinking, coated with blind faith and a sprinkling of batshit delusions, it ain't proof.
For impartial observers the evidence does suggest that when neither reality nor the bible comport with what is known and accepted * about the universe, then secularists invent dark matter to make equations and causation fit the known, while calling the causation-based explanations of the bible a fantasy in order to confirm secular limitations of comprehension.

Note: the underlined words in the quotation indicate non-scientific bias.


* The bible, which says the way things are, is often unacceptable to secularists and blasphemers because it does not say the way things should be ... and the mighty ego, inventor of dark matter to fit the equations, just cannot accept that. Those limited by imaginings of what should be to maintain the known order, rather than recognition of what is, are in fact the deluded. :wink:
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RCSaunders
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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Dubious wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:52 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:58 am
Dubious wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:47 am Your perennial crusade against the infidel atheist is well-known...
Heh. :D You won't find any evidence for that.
I forgot to add you're also known after years of experience on this site as a consummate liar, distorter and deceiver. ...
I'm sorry this discussion has devolved to addressing, "personalities." But, if it must:

IC is definitely NOT a liar. He truly believes what he argues for and even those arguments that seem disingenuous are sincere, however mistaken, because he believes their validity. He is certainly deluded, as anyone who entertains irrational views is, but that happens to be the case with almost everyone who embraces some ideology or, "philosophy." IC is no more deluded than those who worship, "social collectivism," (like Sculptor), or, "physicalism," (like Dontaskme), or, "mysticism," or swallow any of the pseudo-sciences, like psychology, sociology, and evolution, or absurd anti-knowledge philosophies that began with Hume and passed through Kant and the logical positivists to today's post modernists.

They are all sincere, but it is still true: "All men mean well. The road to hell is paved with good intentions." [George Bernard Shaw]
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henry quirk
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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RCSaunders wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:23 pm
Dubious wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:52 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:58 am
Heh. :D You won't find any evidence for that.
I forgot to add you're also known after years of experience on this site as a consummate liar, distorter and deceiver. ...
I'm sorry this discussion has devolved to addressing, "personalities." But, if it must:

*IC is definitely NOT a liar. He truly believes what he argues for and even those arguments that seem disingenuous are sincere, however mistaken, because he believes their validity. He is certainly deluded, as anyone who entertains irrational views is, but that happens to be the case with almost everyone who embraces some ideology or, "philosophy." IC is no more deluded than those who worship, "social collectivism," (like Sculptor), or, "physicalism," (like Dontaskme), or, "mysticism," or swallow any of the pseudo-sciences, like psychology, sociology, and evolution, or absurd anti-knowledge philosophies that began with Hume and passed through Kant and the logical positivists to today's post modernists.

They are all sincere, but it is still true: "All men mean well. The road to hell is paved with good intentions." [George Bernard Shaw]
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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Walker wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:53 pmFor impartial observers the evidence does suggest that when neither reality nor the bible comport with what is known and accepted * about the universe, then secularists invent dark matter to make equations and causation fit the known, while calling the causation-based explanations of the bible a fantasy in order to confirm secular limitations of comprehension.

Note: the underlined words in the quotation indicate non-scientific bias.


* The bible, which says the way things are, is often unacceptable to secularists and blasphemers because it does not say the way things should be ... and the mighty ego, inventor of dark matter to fit the equations, just cannot accept that. Those limited by imaginings of what should be to maintain the known order, rather than recognition of what is, are in fact the deluded. :wink:
As it happens, the most influential early proponent of dark matter was Lord Kelvin, who was a creationist. Scientists don't make things up to try and disprove the bible, they make up hypotheses to try and account for the evidence. Unfortunately for biblical literalists, the evidence doesn't fit the biblical description very well. That is not to say that the bible is necessarily wrong, but you have to allow an awful lot of poetic license. In fact theists have had a major role in shaping modern science, and there is no reason that should change. Perhaps the most striking example is Georges Lemaître; he was the first scientist to realise that the observed galactic red-shift implied a moment of creation. It may be because he was also a Catholic priest that this idea came naturally to him, but the atheist astronomer Fred Hoyle refused to accept Lemaître's hypothesis, dismissing it as a 'big bang' theory. Hoyle championed the 'steady state' cosmological model to his death, even after the findings of Thingummybob and Penzias was taken as pretty conclusive evidence for the Catholic priest's idea. (It wasn't bird poo on the big horn!) That's 2-0 to the theists, if you're counting. You can believe in god all you like, but if you think you have proof, you are a fucking idiot.
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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henry quirk wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:16 pmIs it not possible to arrive at belief thru reason?
Absolutely. That doesn't mean your reasoning is any good.
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henry quirk
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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uwot wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:50 pm
henry quirk wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:16 pmIs it not possible to arrive at belief thru reason?
Absolutely. *That doesn't mean your reasoning is any good.
*True...but it might be.
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Lacewing
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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RCSaunders wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:23 pm IC is definitely NOT a liar. He truly believes what he argues for and even those arguments that seem disingenuous are sincere, however mistaken, because he believes their validity.
I can see his commitment to his beliefs. Is deception in discussion different than lying? Is avoidance, redirection, and willful distortion truthful?

When someone calls these out, they are said to be hateful -- even though they are just describing what is being done. Is it not hateful to do all of the above?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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Lacewing wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:00 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:23 pm IC is definitely NOT a liar. He truly believes what he argues for and even those arguments that seem disingenuous are sincere, however mistaken, because he believes their validity.
I can see his commitment to his beliefs. Is deception in discussion different than lying? Is avoidance, redirection, and willful distortion truthful?

When someone calls these out, they are said to be hateful -- even though they are just describing what is being done. Is it not hateful to do all of the above?
Well, let us say I am the lowest, lying skunk that ever crawled out of a hole. Let's go with that for a minute, Lace. Whatever you want.

What has that got to do with anything? :shock: As RC has already pointed out, it's merely ad hominem. The Devil himself would be forced to speak truth at least half the time, if only to fortify his deceptions. So too must I, even were I a skunk.

Let me be whatever you want me to be. Either way, it won't change the essential question. And the essential question is not, "Is IC a skunk," but rather "Is what IC has said about God true or false?" That's all that matters.

And what has IC said is true about God? That God exists. That He is righteous. That He is also love. That He is the source of salvation, and the hope of the World. That He is also the God of justice, and will set to right all that now seems wrong. That His Word is the Bible, and consummately, is Jesus Christ, the living Word of God. And that people only become what they were intended to be when they know God and are in living connection with Him.

And if IC's wrong, neither you nor I will ever know it, because death ends all. But if IC is telling the truth, you and I will both know it one day. What's more, I'm as committed as anyone can be that you have the right to live and die by what you think is the truth.

So, in point of fact, it's not me you have to like. It's the message.

And what will you do about that?
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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Walker wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:53 pm The bible, which says the way things are...
:lol: How many sources are there in human history that say the way things are? How many people and books and religions and philosophies and beliefs say the way things are? It's all the creation and interpretations of humans, based on their limited perspectives and needs at any given time, culture, place.

Humans, I think, make any idea of a god VERY SMALL and LIMITED, because in man's quest to walk beside gods and speak for them, he imagines them through himself, and elevates himself... rather than considering how vastly expansive beyond his own understanding any greater awareness and wholeness could be! Truly, why would any god be so limited OR need to be "known"? Because that's what MAN needs!!! To soothe his egos and fears, which he is typically incapable of fathoming beyond.
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:18 pm
Lacewing wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:00 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:23 pm IC is definitely NOT a liar. He truly believes what he argues for and even those arguments that seem disingenuous are sincere, however mistaken, because he believes their validity.
I can see his commitment to his beliefs. Is deception in discussion different than lying? Is avoidance, redirection, and willful distortion truthful?

When someone calls these out, they are said to be hateful -- even though they are just describing what is being done. Is it not hateful to do all of the above?
Well, let us say I am the lowest, lying skunk that ever crawled out of a hole. Let's go with that for a minute, Lace. Whatever you want.
Why did you not address what I said? It's very reasonable to call people out for being deceptive... wouldn't you agree??? Everything I said is a description of what you do. WHY do you do it? Do you think it is okay because you claim to be a Christian? That makes no sense. I don't care what message or belief you claim to follow IF you represent it in the way that you do. Doesn't THAT make sense? Notice your crap and stop acting like a victim or martyr anytime someone points it out. Christians are not above such things. They may think they are, which is very much worth questioning.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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Lacewing wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:44 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:18 pm
Lacewing wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:00 pm
I can see his commitment to his beliefs. Is deception in discussion different than lying? Is avoidance, redirection, and willful distortion truthful?

When someone calls these out, they are said to be hateful -- even though they are just describing what is being done. Is it not hateful to do all of the above?
Well, let us say I am the lowest, lying skunk that ever crawled out of a hole. Let's go with that for a minute, Lace. Whatever you want.
Why did you not address what I said?
Very simple: it was entirely irrelevant. That's why.
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Lacewing
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Re: Religion Is Insanity

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Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:54 pm
Lacewing wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:44 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:18 pm
Well, let us say I am the lowest, lying skunk that ever crawled out of a hole. Let's go with that for a minute, Lace. Whatever you want.
Why did you not address what I said?
Very simple: it was entirely irrelevant. That's why.
What you DO... is entirely irrelevant? That speaks more truth than anything else you say.
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