VVilliam wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:36 pm
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:38 am
VVilliam wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:51 pm
Personally I think that the first step toward recovery is discovering that and dealing with it, by admitting it.
For me, there is no recovery from the human condition that has the capacity to LIE and deceive you. Trusting what could potentially lie to you, is a very bad game to play.
Essentially we can only lie to ourselves, and there seems no reason to 'trust' anyone. Most importantly - if one is to 'trust' anyone, then one should at least trust oneself not to lie to oneself.
Yes, I agree with you, that seems reasonably intelligent. In the sense that we are all in this together, so for as long as we deceive and lie to others, the liar will also be caught up in it's own web of deceit.
Like this
We do not weave the web of life, we are merely a strand in it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
VVilliam wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:51 pmAppearances can be deceiving yes?
So in that, are you lying or telling the truth? And how can one tell?
Only you yourself can know whether you are lying or telling the truth. So long as you are true to yourself, your life will not be in conflict with others.
VVilliam wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:51 pm
You say that as if there are no options so just 'give up'. Your problem seems to be that you are stuck with what is, and have found no way to escape it so your world view forces you into a type of indifference. A type of fatalistic position where you would rather die and be no more than play the only game available to you.
Yes, that's exactly how it feels for me sometimes. .sometimes I just long for the state before I existed, sometimes I wish life wasn't happening and there was just pure non-existence for ever and ever and ever, and that none of us have to be born. Knowing what I know about what it is like to be a sentient creature, I would not choose to experience it again. But we are doing that choosing everytime we choose to make a baby, we are literally choosing to live again knowing how bad it can get. So for me, I'd rather not be born at all. But I was born, and that is why I came to the stark conclusion that there is no thing choosing to live this life...and that choosing was just an apparent illusion.
Think about it...if I personally didn't choose to be born, then neither did my parents, nor their parents..ad infinitum, no one can hold their turtle accountable for their birth.
VVilliam wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:51 pm In that you are choosing not to identify with game or players etc... A bit like waking up to the realization you are involved in a game, having no idea how you got there and not even sure that dying will allow you to leave the game but hoping that it will anyway.
That's exactly what I am hoping and thinking, yes.
VVilliam wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:51 pmProblem being - of course - that the hope may turn out to be futile and upon death you still find yourself in the game anyway...your position is naturally enough, not a happy one.
Yes, that's so true...but what if there is a way for us to pull the plug on ourselves, if we know we exist, then surely we can terminate our existence for good, if we come to the conclusion that the game is just not worth playing.. ?