What happens to non-believers of God?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
VVilliam
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:58 pm

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by VVilliam »

From what I can gather, what happens to people when they cease with this reality depends entirely on their beliefs, attitudes and intention conscious and subconscious.

Non believers of "God" must mean 'The Christian god' as that is what they call him.

There are various beliefs as to what happens to these. Some say "Hell". Others say "Judgment and then eternal death" [ceasing to be] still others say 'it depends' ...
Walker
Posts: 8714
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by Walker »

gaffo wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:29 am
Walker wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:04 am
gaffo wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:58 am

All atheists and non beliers in the the correct God go to Hell forever.
Gaffo old sport. Hell is for the living and can only exist in the present. Quite often its existence is caused by awakening to what caused it.
thnaks for the non-sequitor, i guess. ;-/
You’re quite welcome, Gaffo. Certainly, I’ll supply the obvious sequitur for you to deny or accept, rather than draw your own conclusion and discuss the implications of your thoughts. Always glad to help, don't be shy about asking.

You reference the “correct God.” I understand what you mean. I hear ya baby. You are referencing anyone from any religion who considers that the view of God worshiped within that religion is the correct God. Likewise, you are saying that those who don’t believe in that view will experience the consequences of their non-belief, as defined within the traditions of that religion which has defined the correct God, whatever that religion may be. Those consequences we call punishment, thus in principle religions share a principle of punishment called, Hell. It is a principle that goes by various names, but the Pentecostals and others call it Hell.

Of course your stylish economy condenses all of this, and it so happens that I agree with your assessment, although presented in my woefully inadequate, pedestrian style mostly sincere but with a slice of twinkle twinkle eye and tongue in cheek. However, I’ve deduced that surrendering to the tutelage of such inspiration as yours stirs some distress in some, in various manifestations, and so we'll adjust accordingly.

To my humble observation, which as you incisively point out lacks a conclusion from me for you to analyze with perhaps even more clarifying economy than previous displayed, as interpreted from your wisdom I can see that hell is the promise of a future, and in the moralization of most any religion that promise is a future punishment and not a reward. In this view, as a principle, hell is an inevitable consequence for the stupidity of being exposed to truth and ignoring truth (an act of ignorance;) for these reasons:

As we all know, the future only exists in the mind as imagination with unknown qualities that are subject to predictability and probability. Therefore, the hell promised by religions only exists in the mind. And like hell, future reality, whatever we think it may turn out to be, only exists in the mind as an inference of probability.

In the actuality of the physical, however, reality can only exist in the present as Now (differentiating the “present” from “NOW” to accommodate the time-lag between phenomena and apprehension of time-lag, NOW being the consequence of the time-lag.)

Therefore, actual hell does and can only exist in the present …

What is hell like in the present? Well, that’s defined in many ways, of course, just as many people have their own definitions for truth, justice, and the American Way. And other things too.

For example, for many hell is regret. Regret for all the hell caused in the lives of other people, in the past, when stupidity reigned. Memories of this are the hell lived in the present. Awakening to the realization that one is the cause of suffering for others and oneself, to be experienced perpetually in the present, awakens one to the realization of karma and the physical burning of anguish, the experience of forever. All the suffering caused for others comes back as suffering upon oneself, in the form of hell, hell which can only exist now, within the awareness that one is.

Thus, the admonitions to avoid hopping on the spiritual path if too old. The unstoppable path can cause one to become an unfortunate hell-being, ‘specially without any guidance back when all the hell was being raised.

The redemption of Christianity has that covered.

The way things are gets translated into various traditions and religions. It’s the reason for teachings. Old folks see the chain of causation that applies to all situations as principles affected by the conditions of the situation, and from this vision issues warnings according to the tradition which may include interpretation of scriptures. Those who heed the warnings of the tradition or the religion tell the lil’ chillen’, mind your P’s and Q’s and do as we teach you in order to be healthy, wealthy, and wise. If you don't, here's a dose of brimstone to light your way.

Gaffo, old sport, thank you for the opportunity to offer what appears at the moment … inspired by … yes I said it, inspired by the wisdom expressed within the meaning of your cogent economy which somehow encompasses all of your past. The meaning of your influence extends far beyond the meaning either I, or you, attribute.

8)
Dontaskme
Posts: 9977
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by Dontaskme »

VVilliam wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:56 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:15 am
Walker wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:09 am How's it working out?
It uses dumbbells.

That's why it's futile to be concerned for whom the dumbbells toll.

Life is just a parasitic freak show, nothing much to see here, cept, maybe a billion year evolved flatworm wearing a tux, with no more purpose or importance or significance than that of a commonal garden earth worm.

.
You have a neat way with words...
All my words are plagiarism.

I didn't have one single word to my name at my birth. :D I was once what's known as a no-one. And that no-one is the same no-one that is now a word. We're all just parrots here. . We're all the same no-one wording the same words over and over again. Just 26 symbolic empty letters of the alphabet making-up billions and billions of different stories, all just beliefs no-one made. :wink:


.
Dontaskme
Posts: 9977
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by Dontaskme »

VVilliam wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:40 am From what I can gather, what happens to people when they cease with this reality depends entirely on their beliefs, attitudes and intention conscious and subconscious.

Non believers of "God" must mean 'The Christian god' as that is what they call him.

There are various beliefs as to what happens to these. Some say "Hell". Others say "Judgment and then eternal death" [ceasing to be] still others say 'it depends' ...
I am now aware that I didn't actually specify a what happens ( before or after ) the non-belief of God. I guess I should have been more clear, but anyways...

I was thinking more along the lines of what happens to those who do not believe in God on a normal day to day living basis.

For example: there are many many people alive today that have no belief or use for a God. And I am pleased to be able to report that these people are going about living their life in a happy healthy functional way, where they appear to be simply enjoying and making the most of each day, they almost make their lives into some kind of art form according to their unique creativity, and they do so without ever once thinking about Why, or How, or Who is living their life. Rather, they just simply get on with living, and most of them are innately wise enough to know they can never know the answers to the deeper How - Who - or Why philosophical questions of their existence, so they have the wisdom to not even bother going there in the first place.

So I'm refering to those people in particular. They can live long and happy lives without a God, and nothing ever happens to them. Except for the usual normal things that happens to us all, like witnessing the birth of our children, watching them succeed or fail, getting married, getting divorced, or losing loved ones through old age, and illnesses. . etc etc...Nothing happening but the usual run of the mill events. They can manage all this quite well without a God. And I've also noticed that when their heads are not full of the demons that is the world according to God, they thrive very well, much better in fact.

.
Dontaskme
Posts: 9977
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by Dontaskme »

gaffo wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:11 am

I thought i was clear.
Thanks for always chiming in with the clarity gaffo. :D
User avatar
VVilliam
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:58 pm

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by VVilliam »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:27 am
VVilliam wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:40 am From what I can gather, what happens to people when they cease with this reality depends entirely on their beliefs, attitudes and intention conscious and subconscious.

Non believers of "God" must mean 'The Christian god' as that is what they call him.

There are various beliefs as to what happens to these. Some say "Hell". Others say "Judgment and then eternal death" [ceasing to be] still others say 'it depends' ...
I am now aware that I didn't actually specify a what happens ( before or after ) the non-belief of God. I guess I should have been more clear, but anyways...

I was thinking more along the lines of what happens to those who do not believe in God on a normal day to day living basis.

For example: there are many many people alive today that have no belief or use for a God. And I am pleased to be able to report that these people are going about living their life in a happy healthy functional way, where they appear to be simply enjoying and making the most of each day, they almost make their lives into some kind of art form according to their unique creativity, and they do so without ever once thinking about Why, or How, or Who is living their life. Rather, they just simply get on with living, and most of them are innately wise enough to know they can never know the answers to the deeper How - Who - or Why philosophical questions of their existence, so they have the wisdom to not even bother going there in the first place.

So I'm refering to those people in particular. They can live long and happy lives without a God, and nothing ever happens to them. Except for the usual normal things that happens to us all, like witnessing the birth of our children, watching them succeed or fail, getting married, getting divorced, or losing loved ones through old age, and illnesses. . etc etc...Nothing happening but the usual run of the mill events. They can manage all this quite well without a God. And I've also noticed that when their heads are not full of the demons that is the world according to God, they thrive very well, much better in fact.

.
Yes. And then they die. If there is more to experience after that, then may they take what they have already developed into that next event...for it may prove worthwhile. :)
gaffo
Posts: 4083
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by gaffo »

Walker wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:08 am
gaffo wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:29 am
Walker wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:04 am
Gaffo old sport. Hell is for the living and can only exist in the present. Quite often its existence is caused by awakening to what caused it.
thnaks for the non-sequitor, i guess. ;-/
You’re quite welcome, Gaffo. Certainly, I’ll supply the obvious sequitur for you to deny or accept, rather than draw your own conclusion and discuss the implications of your thoughts. Always glad to help, don't be shy about asking.

You reference the “correct God.” I understand what you mean. I hear ya baby. You are referencing anyone from any religion who considers that the view of God worshiped within that religion is the correct God. Likewise, you are saying that those who don’t believe in that view will experience the consequences of their non-belief, as defined within the traditions of that religion which has defined the correct God, whatever that religion may be. Those consequences we call punishment, thus in principle religions share a principle of punishment called, Hell. It is a principle that goes by various names, but the Pentecostals and others call it Hell.

Of course your stylish economy condenses all of this, and it so happens that I agree with your assessment, although presented in my woefully inadequate, pedestrian style mostly sincere but with a slice of twinkle twinkle eye and tongue in cheek. However, I’ve deduced that surrendering to the tutelage of such inspiration as yours stirs some distress in some, in various manifestations, and so we'll adjust accordingly.

To my humble observation, which as you incisively point out lacks a conclusion from me for you to analyze with perhaps even more clarifying economy than previous displayed, as interpreted from your wisdom I can see that hell is the promise of a future, and in the moralization of most any religion that promise is a future punishment and not a reward. In this view, as a principle, hell is an inevitable consequence for the stupidity of being exposed to truth and ignoring truth (an act of ignorance;) for these reasons:

As we all know, the future only exists in the mind as imagination with unknown qualities that are subject to predictability and probability. Therefore, the hell promised by religions only exists in the mind. And like hell, future reality, whatever we think it may turn out to be, only exists in the mind as an inference of probability.

In the actuality of the physical, however, reality can only exist in the present as Now (differentiating the “present” from “NOW” to accommodate the time-lag between phenomena and apprehension of time-lag, NOW being the consequence of the time-lag.)

Therefore, actual hell does and can only exist in the present …

What is hell like in the present? Well, that’s defined in many ways, of course, just as many people have their own definitions for truth, justice, and the American Way. And other things too.

For example, for many hell is regret. Regret for all the hell caused in the lives of other people, in the past, when stupidity reigned. Memories of this are the hell lived in the present. Awakening to the realization that one is the cause of suffering for others and oneself, to be experienced perpetually in the present, awakens one to the realization of karma and the physical burning of anguish, the experience of forever. All the suffering caused for others comes back as suffering upon oneself, in the form of hell, hell which can only exist now, within the awareness that one is.

Thus, the admonitions to avoid hopping on the spiritual path if too old. The unstoppable path can cause one to become an unfortunate hell-being, ‘specially without any guidance back when all the hell was being raised.

The redemption of Christianity has that covered.

The way things are gets translated into various traditions and religions. It’s the reason for teachings. Old folks see the chain of causation that applies to all situations as principles affected by the conditions of the situation, and from this vision issues warnings according to the tradition which may include interpretation of scriptures. Those who heed the warnings of the tradition or the religion tell the lil’ chillen’, mind your P’s and Q’s and do as we teach you in order to be healthy, wealthy, and wise. If you don't, here's a dose of brimstone to light your way.

Gaffo, old sport, thank you for the opportunity to offer what appears at the moment … inspired by … yes I said it, inspired by the wisdom expressed within the meaning of your cogent economy which somehow encompasses all of your past. The meaning of your influence extends far beyond the meaning either I, or you, attribute.

8)
Thank you Sir for the mindfull reply, you have a mind and for that i am thankful.

and thanks for thinking i am wise - knowing oneself is the foundation for that. of all the virtus i think Wisdom is first and Love is second. I have had the second since a child, the former is a live long goal - never fully achieved, but slowly acheived via "life".

not to disparage Love, for i know only have one and not the other - i.e. to be a cold computer with no love and full wisdom is more empty than a foolish child with love.

the ideal is to have both of course, and to be wise and have love.

thanks for your reply.

----------------

PS, the problem i have with Western Religions is per thier concept of Hell. where the Punishment is eternal, and not for correction. So as an Athiest when i dei and see i have an afterlife, the first thing i will do is except YHWH/Jebus into my heart.............and via the ideal Western religion i will be saved fro mteh belly of Hell, but instead i'm told i will sit in hell with Belial and other legion and lost souls forever - even after converting from my non-belief and afirming God.

if that is the way of thinks so be it.

---i await my fate in the afterlife - if thier is one. in the mean time i assume their is none, and live my life here and now to the bst of my ability.
gaffo
Posts: 4083
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by gaffo »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:27 am
VVilliam wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:40 am From what I can gather, what happens to people when they cease with this reality depends entirely on their beliefs, attitudes and intention conscious and subconscious.

Non believers of "God" must mean 'The Christian god' as that is what they call him.

There are various beliefs as to what happens to these. Some say "Hell". Others say "Judgment and then eternal death" [ceasing to be] still others say 'it depends' ...
I am now aware that I didn't actually specify a what happens ( before or after ) the non-belief of God. I guess I should have been more clear, but anyways...

I was thinking more along the lines of what happens to those who do not believe in God on a normal day to day living basis.

For example: there are many many people alive today that have no belief or use for a God. And I am pleased to be able to report that these people are going about living their life in a happy healthy functional way, where they appear to be simply enjoying and making the most of each day, they almost make their lives into some kind of art form according to their unique creativity, and they do so without ever once thinking about Why, or How, or Who is living their life. Rather, they just simply get on with living, and most of them are innately wise enough to know they can never know the answers to the deeper How - Who - or Why philosophical questions of their existence, so they have the wisdom to not even bother going there in the first place.
yep. as i did thinking about "Truth" and independently concluded the same as Descarte - at age 16. Solipsism is the limit of knowing for me, and 38 yrs later it remains the limit, and so in the mean time is stopped striving for the Truth - for Solipsism is the ultimate end for me - and lived my life not strive for knowing Truth beyond Solupsism.
gaffo
Posts: 4083
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by gaffo »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:32 am
gaffo wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:11 am

I thought i was clear.
Thanks for always chiming in with the clarity gaffo. :D
I try - though when here usually fairly drunk - getting all "lovey dovy - brother hood of man and all that ( sadly my best friend is a brain-burned out drunk full of greivvences for his faulures in life - more interested in hating the world and all others than self reflection - yrs ago he was like me, and introspective, but no longer so i no longer can really talk to him - my other two best friends were never introspective to start with more "how is the weather" types - we like each other becasue we are good folks and have personality qualiti that jell - but nothing there for actuall disccusions like this forum -sadly).

PS, please inform Walker that my moniker is gaffo, not Gaffo, though gaffo is a shortened form of my last name Gafford (don't tell anyone).

which i have used for the last 20 yrs on the interwebs and usenet - any google will bring up my old usenet posts in RC/alternative/Roman Catholic /atlernative computers alt/oldtime radio alt/politic.etc.from the 00's ouths.

moniker first started when i botched my membership to Arse Techinica in 2000, when is mistyped my last name and via the travails of getting registered - settled for "gaffo" - since that time a adopted that moniker to all other forums and the internet in general.

2-cents trivia
User avatar
Luxin
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by Luxin »

They never know "God" (i.e. Nature or The Universe), and because we are all macrocosmic reflections of The Universe, they never know who they are.
Dontaskme
Posts: 9977
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by Dontaskme »

Luxin wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:59 am They never know "God" (i.e. Nature or The Universe), and because we are all macrocosmic reflections of The Universe, they never know who they are.
Yes, I suppose one would have to believe in one self, if one wants to know thyself, and to know others. If there was no belief, then there would be no story of I known to be existing.

There has to be belief in the words that are informing the formless of it's apparent form.

So I suppose one can choose to know or remain forever ignorant. Either way, it matters not to God, as God will always be himself, the original one.
codirosso
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri May 07, 2021 7:05 am

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by codirosso »

The short answer is: it depends, case by case, there are various degrees in being atheist or just a-theist, in good or bad faith, and so on...
gaffo
Posts: 4083
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: What happens to non-believers of God?

Post by gaffo »

no books are clear:

good work do not matter enough to get out of hell if you do not believe in the correct God:

1. for Jews that means YHWH - not Christ
2. For christians it measn Chrsit not just YHHWH
3, for Muslims it measn Allah (YHWH) - they ar the same - some claim they are not - offer your argumemnt if not the same
4. Hindus - Vishnu


etc.............

if your reject the correct god you go to hell forever - per the books on the matter.
Post Reply