The tree of knowledge

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Walker
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by Walker »

bahaman wrote: If testing the fruit is necessary for understanding including the understanding of the nature of sin then why God punished Adam and Eve. They were ignorant before testing.
I’m not a scholar and why bother at this late date, but the way I figure it, in following the logic of the facts as presented in the bible without challenging those facts (‘cause challenging facts this far removed from events is just inference): Because man is created in God’s image then both man and God have the capacity to think and create within their spheres, however man’s creations are pale comparison, in power, scope and beauty, although Cathedrals gave it a shot and were pretty impressive in the day, before the sky scrapers swallowed St. Patrick’s in NY.

The advantage of being human is that like God, one can think (inferred from being made in God's image and distinguished from the beasts), and the advantage to thinking is that mistakes can be avoided, to some extent.

If for some reason a person cannot think of consequences, then their thinking ability has been corrupted by injury or delusion. From one point of view there is no such thing as a mistake, and the reason for that saying is because we learn from our mistakes and everything works out for the best, thus two clichés override one. :|

However that’s only true if one can learn from mistakes, and if thinking ability has been compromised by injury or delusion, then learning won’t happen.

This leads to the question, is suffering a means for God to realize a mistake, or is it a means for man and woman to realize a mistake?

I say man and woman, because we know suffering is within their realm of apprehension and comprehension, whereas God who created them, without borrowed parts, exists in another ineffable realm that includes mans’ realm, women too, which is handy since God is also described as ineffable.

Those first two folks who doubted that God’s word is the truth to be obeyed, were corrupted by a thought implanted by the evil serpent with his smiling face, pretending to be a friend. Their ignorance was no excuse.

To answer your question: from the evidence it appears that understanding God’s word is not required to obey God’s word.
Impenitent
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by Impenitent »

VVilliam wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:19 pm
Impenitent wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:21 pm if knowledge was actually from a tree, wouldn't you expect squirrels to remember where they hid their nuts?

-Imp
Whereas humans appear not to hide theirs at all.
some humans put them in jackets with really long sleeves... or at least they used to do so...

-Imp
Walker
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by Walker »

Impenitent wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:47 pm
VVilliam wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:19 pm
Impenitent wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:21 pm if knowledge was actually from a tree, wouldn't you expect squirrels to remember where they hid their nuts?

-Imp
Whereas humans appear not to hide theirs at all.
some humans put them in jackets with really long sleeves... or at least they used to do so...

-Imp
As Joe Kennedy taught his daughter the hard way, if it isn’t so make it so with will and propaganda ... and a wee bit of innuendo, all of which of course made the knife sound reasonable.
Walker
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by Walker »

VVilliam wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:08 pm
One is best not to invest in thinking the story is based on fact.

Rather it is a blurry reflection of ancient human thinking and ways of being entertained by stories around campfires in the dark of night. Much like we do today in the warmth of our lounges, in front of the telly ... we all love a good story...not that I am claiming the bible account is a good story - I am confident that the original stories would have been filled with details which would have been omitted from the written versions...once humans learned how to encode the sounds they made, into a written language...
Why waste any time at all considering the basis of the dominant world religion?
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VVilliam
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by VVilliam »

Walker wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:42 am
VVilliam wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:08 pm
One is best not to invest in thinking the story is based on fact.

Rather it is a blurry reflection of ancient human thinking and ways of being entertained by stories around campfires in the dark of night. Much like we do today in the warmth of our lounges, in front of the telly ... we all love a good story...not that I am claiming the bible account is a good story - I am confident that the original stories would have been filled with details which would have been omitted from the written versions...once humans learned how to encode the sounds they made, into a written language...
Why waste any time at all considering the basis of the dominant world religion?
Ones man's time wasted is another mans foolish disregard...
jayjacobus
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by jayjacobus »

VVilliam wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:05 pm
Walker wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:42 am
VVilliam wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:08 pm
One is best not to invest in thinking the story is based on fact.

Rather it is a blurry reflection of ancient human thinking and ways of being entertained by stories around campfires in the dark of night. Much like we do today in the warmth of our lounges, in front of the telly ... we all love a good story...not that I am claiming the bible account is a good story - I am confident that the original stories would have been filled with details which would have been omitted from the written versions...once humans learned how to encode the sounds they made, into a written language...
Why waste any time at all considering the basis of the dominant world religion?
Ones man's time wasted is another mans foolish disregard...
Perhaps but Ecclesiastes says understanding life is like capturing fog. "Meaningless! Meaningless!" "Eat, drink and be merry."

“Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labor the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun.” - Ecclesiastes 8:15 (KJV)

The foolish disregard that you have for the current day will result in another day of foolish disregard or you can find joy in what you do now.
gaffo
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by gaffo »

bahman wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:48 pm The tree of knowledge is a symbol of a situation that God purposefully put Adam in a sinful situation and wait until sin happens. So He could have His grand design plan.
no, the Tree of Knowledge (Wisdom actually - elf awareness), and the OTHER tree that of the Tree of Life - were two trees in the Garden of Eden - as is clear in the story found in genesis - litterlay two trees.

not an alogory nor sybol as you wish it to be.

after mna ate of the former, God removed the latter to keep him from being overthrown by man is Chronos was by his son Zeus - so God removed the secnd tree before man could eate from it - or more aptinly go removed man from the iad tree via exile from eden.

Genesis YHWH was a small fearful lgod afraid that man might replace him.

BTW the snake spoke the truth about the former tree.
gaffo
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by gaffo »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:47 am
bahman wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:48 pm The tree of knowledge is a symbol of a situation that God purposefully put Adam in a sinful situation and wait until sin happens. So He could have His grand design plan.
But how would Adam have known otherwise what a sinful situation was if God hadn't made available the possibility to experience what a sinful situation would be like?

The point being made here, is how would any man or woman become aware of the experience of knowledge at all without first tasting the actual experience of what knowledge is and means.

If they had not become aware of what is conceptual knowledge, then they would have remained in their ignorant original natural state of being pure awareness, without knowledge of separation, without ego, or being aware of having the sense of a self.

Is there a problem with having a grand design or plan? Can a house be built without planning and designing it first?

.

correct! just not have the trees in the garden in the first place and man remains one of the inocent best of the ifeld!

sanke spoke the truth and man ate of it and become more than the other beast fo the field - being the only self aware animal) - other animals were corrupted and so we have the canrvores being created - rem - in the kongdom of god - in eden and at end times - lion ates straw not lambs.

refer to Jubaless on this matter.

pardon my spellig above - i'm drunk - you cna figure it out.
gaffo
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by gaffo »

bahman wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:02 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:44 pm
bahman wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:23 pm If testing the fruit is necessary for understanding including the understanding of the nature of sin then why God punished Adam and Eve. They were ignorant before testing.
We're all ignorant before knowing.

On the human level of understanding and knowledge - Punishment would go something like this :arrow: Man kills a bunch of innocent people, then repeats the action until he is labled a serial killer, and is sentenced to life in prison upon capture.

That's what happens bahman. . humans have to adhere to laws that we make in order to adopt a civilised world for ourselves, it's called civilisation, and is what separates us from the animals. Not that we have more value than an animal, just that we are the ones who have evolved to be intelligent and knowlegable therefore responsiblity rests on our shoulders.

So where does God come into all this? Maybe the author of the story was talking about itself. Who else is there to talk to, but yourself and others who are selves too. The only reason you know others are selves is because you know you yourself is a self.

And so when we ourself know what feels good or bad through knowledge, we then know that others know what feels good and bad as well. And is why we have to be held accountable and responsible for what we do to others. We have to punish people else all hell would just break loose on the world.
We don't punish innocent. God did. That is one of my problems. The other problem is mentioned in OP. Why put people in sinful situations in order to test them. God for example could give knowledge for free. Why bother doing it another way.

HE was afriad of is creation,- man - and why he exiled him before he could ete from teh Tre of Life and so become immortal and so might overthrwo YHWWH.
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bahman
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by bahman »

gaffo wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:07 am
bahman wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:48 pm The tree of knowledge is a symbol of a situation that God purposefully put Adam in a sinful situation and wait until sin happens. So He could have His grand design plan.
no, the Tree of Knowledge (Wisdom actually - elf awareness), and the OTHER tree that of the Tree of Life - were two trees in the Garden of Eden - as is clear in the story found in genesis - litterlay two trees.

not an alogory nor sybol as you wish it to be.

after mna ate of the former, God removed the latter to keep him from being overthrown by man is Chronos was by his son Zeus - so God removed the secnd tree before man could eate from it - or more aptinly go removed man from the iad tree via exile from eden.

Genesis YHWH was a small fearful lgod afraid that man might replace him.

BTW the snake spoke the truth about the former tree.
How do you know that God was afraid of man?
gaffo
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Re: The tree of knowledge

Post by gaffo »

bahman wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:03 pm
gaffo wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:07 am
bahman wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:48 pm The tree of knowledge is a symbol of a situation that God purposefully put Adam in a sinful situation and wait until sin happens. So He could have His grand design plan.
no, the Tree of Knowledge (Wisdom actually - elf awareness), and the OTHER tree that of the Tree of Life - were two trees in the Garden of Eden - as is clear in the story found in genesis - litterlay two trees.

not an alogory nor sybol as you wish it to be.

after mna ate of the former, God removed the latter to keep him from being overthrown by man is Chronos was by his son Zeus - so God removed the secnd tree before man could eate from it - or more aptinly go removed man from the iad tree via exile from eden.

Genesis YHWH was a small fearful lgod afraid that man might replace him.

BTW the snake spoke the truth about the former tree.
How do you know that God was afraid of man?
using deduction via history of when works were written - whne Genesis was written Judaism was polytheistic and YHWH character was one of the PAntion/heavenly court of cananism. Caniite were the early jews.

"the Bibble" is not one work but 50 or so by diff authors over millinia, thier views were shown and fixed when they wrote thier works - in the time and place of thier culture.


2-cents.
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