"In the beginning God created ...."

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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VVilliam
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"In the beginning God created ...."

Post by VVilliam »

"Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

Often Christians argue that we do not exist within a Simulated Reality while maintaining that we exist within a Creation.

What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?
Dontaskme
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Dontaskme »

VVilliam wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:57 am "Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

Often Christians argue that we do not exist within a Simulated Reality while maintaining that we exist within a Creation.

What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?
There is no difference between existing within a RS or within a Creation. The creation is a simulation of the brain. The creation is the seen outworkings of the unseen inner integrals of the brain.

The human brain is synonymous to a biological robot which cannot know it's maker no more than a mechanical computer can know it's made by Apple Inc.

Apple Inc is just an idea. How was an idea created? ask the brain. How was the brain created?

What brain created the brain?

Reality is always a presentation. Knowledge of the presentation can only appear as a representation.

Nothing can be known.

If you say you know..you don't.
Walker
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Walker »

VVilliam wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:57 am "Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

Often Christians argue that we do not exist within a Simulated Reality while maintaining that we exist within a Creation.

What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?
No reality simulation can encompass reality because the simulation creator is apart from the simulation, within a greater reality that includes the reality simulation, and the simulation is not the creator of the simulation or the creator.
Age
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Age »

VVilliam wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:57 am "Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."
I think, even KNOW, 'we' exist within a creation, but I am NOT saying that we exist within a reality simulation.

WHY do you think, or BELIEVE, that 'a creation' is the same as 'a reality simulation'.

The two, to 'me', are two VERY DIFFERENT 'things'.
VVilliam wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:57 am Often Christians argue that we do not exist within a Simulated Reality while maintaining that we exist within a Creation.
So what, in regards to what some people argue?

If an 'argument' is neither sound nor valid, then it is NOT even worth repeating.

You want to argue that a 'simulated reality' is 'Creation', correct?
VVilliam wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:57 am What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?
A 'reality simulation' is a simulation of what is perceived to be 'reality'. Whereas, Creation is just what is happening and occurring HERE-NOW.

Thee actual Universe is in a constant state of CHANGE, which is just Creation, Itself.

If 'you' are existing, which 'you' OBVIOUSLY ARE, then, ultimately, 'you' are existing in Creation, Itself.

Now, if you are existing within a 'reality simulation' or within an 'evolution', then they both still come under the banner of 'within Creation', Itself.

What is the difference between between existing within a 'reality simulation' and existing within an 'evolution'?

Both 'reality simulation' AND 'evolution', if existing, are existing within (a) Creation, Itself.
Age
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Age »

Walker wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:30 am
VVilliam wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:57 am "Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

Often Christians argue that we do not exist within a Simulated Reality while maintaining that we exist within a Creation.

What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?
No reality simulation can encompass reality because the simulation creator is apart from the simulation, within a greater reality that includes the reality simulation, and the simulation is not the creator of the simulation or the creator.
'Reality' is reality, correct?

If this is correct, then HOW could there be a, so called, "greater reality"?

Did you just mean that if there were thinking beings, within a 'reality simulation', then they might not YET be able to think, nor SEE, beyond only 'that', which they can only think and see?
Walker
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Walker »

What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?
No reality simulation can encompass reality because the simulation creator is apart from the simulation, within a greater reality that includes the reality simulation, and the simulation is not the creator of the simulation or the creator.

Rephrased.

- No reality simulation can encompass reality because the simulation creator is apart from the simulation.
- The simulation creator is within a greater reality than the reality simulation, that includes the reality simulation.
- The reality simulation is neither the creator of the simulation, nor the creator.
Age
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Age »

Walker wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:09 am No reality simulation can encompass reality because the simulation creator is apart from the simulation, within a greater reality that includes the reality simulation, and the simulation is not the creator of the simulation or the creator.
OF COURSE. This goes WITHOUT saying.

This WAS 'blatantly obvious', PREVIOUSLY.
Walker wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:09 am Rephrased.

- No reality simulation can encompass reality because the simulation creator is apart from the simulation.
- The simulation creator is within a greater reality than the reality simulation, that includes the reality simulation.
- The reality simulation is neither the creator of the simulation, nor the creator.
However, saying, "greater reality" is, to me, an oxymoron. This is BECAUSE there is OBVIOUSLY ONLY One 'Reality', so there can NOT be, NOR could ever be, a "greater" 'Reality'.

I KNEW what you WERE, and ARE, MEANING. I just find that if one wants to express 'a truth', then it is much better, for them, if they just express what thee One and ONLY Truth IS, instead. Especially considering that we are in a 'philosophy forum'.

Now, if you would like to move on beyond what is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS and let us SEE if you can actually back up and support what you CLAIM here, then please let us proceed with you answering my CLARIFYING QUESTIONS posed to you.
Walker
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Walker »

Age wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:20 am However, saying, "greater reality" is, to me, an oxymoron. This is BECAUSE there is OBVIOUSLY ONLY One 'Reality', so there can NOT be, NOR could ever be, a "greater" 'Reality'.
That's right.

The reality simulation includes less of reality, than reality.
It is a lesser reality.

Reasoning already provided, which answers the OP question.
Skepdick
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Skepdick »

VVilliam wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:57 am What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?
Theoretically. None whatsoever.

Practically. In the Christian world-view we had absolutely NO idea how God could possibly accomplish what he accomplished. Or as it's commonly said: any sufficiently sophisticated technology is indistinguishable from magic. 3000 years ago, If the universe was a Creation the HOW was conceptually foreign to us - nobody even dared to dream that we, humans could create simulations.

In 2021 the idea of a simulated existence is not magic anymore - it's mainstream. Simulations are daily occurrence, simulating entire universes seems plausible and within reach. And suddenly God isn't this super-duper omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent entity that does magic. God is just some future, technologically advanced human.

And so, the Christian god is a wise old man, and the Simulation God is a bunch of jeans&t-shirt wearing hipsters who coded up our Simulation with the help of alcohol, pizza and weed.

The gift-wrapping certainly confuses our reverence-radars. Which god would you revere and respect more? Personally - I am more scared of the youngsters and if push comes to shove I'd end up kissing their ass to keep the lights on.

I hope there's an older/wiser/more mature being in charge of this gig.
Skepdick
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Skepdick »

Walker wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:30 am No reality simulation can encompass reality because the simulation creator is apart from the simulation, within a greater reality that includes the reality simulation, and the simulation is not the creator of the simulation or the creator.
Closed system (Universe)
Open system (Multiverse)
System of systems (Even bigger Multiverse)
Age
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Age »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:08 am
VVilliam wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:57 am What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?
Theoretically. None whatsoever.

Practically. In the Christian world-view we had absolutely NO idea how God could possibly accomplish what he accomplished.
'God' is NOT a "he". And, HOW God could do and has done what God has accomplished is ALREADY KNOWN and can be PROVEN irrefutably True.

So, your CLAIM 'we' here is INCORRECT.
Skepdick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:08 am Or as it's commonly said: any sufficiently sophisticated technology is indistinguishable from magic. 3000 years ago, If the universe was a Creation the HOW was conceptually foreign to us - nobody even dared to dream that we, humans could create simulations.

In 2021 the idea of a simulated existence is not magic anymore - it's mainstream. Simulations are daily occurrence, simulating entire universes seems plausible and within reach. And suddenly God isn't this super-duper omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent entity that does magic. God is just some future, technologically advanced human.
That might be for some, but NOT to ALL.
Skepdick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:08 am And so, the Christian god is a wise old man, and the Simulation God is a bunch of jeans&t-shirt wearing hipsters who coded up our Simulation with the help of alcohol, pizza and weed.

The gift-wrapping certainly confuses our reverence-radars. Which god would you revere and respect more? Personally - I am more scared of the youngsters and if push comes to shove I'd end up kissing their ass to keep the lights on.

I hope there's an older/wiser/more mature being in charge of this gig.
Age
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Age »

Walker wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:45 am
Age wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:20 am However, saying, "greater reality" is, to me, an oxymoron. This is BECAUSE there is OBVIOUSLY ONLY One 'Reality', so there can NOT be, NOR could ever be, a "greater" 'Reality'.
That's right.

The reality simulation includes less of reality, than reality.
It is a lesser reality.

Reasoning already provided, which answers the OP question.
How can you, logically, say; "That's right", in relation to my CLAIM that there is NO "greater" 'Reality', but then in your next two sentences CLAIM the EXACT OPPOSITE thing?

To 'me', there is NO ACTUAL "less of reality". As there can ONLY be One 'Reality'. There might be an 'appearance' of "lesser" reality to some. But an 'appearance' is NOT necessarily what IS ACTUALLY True and Right.
Age
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Age »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:37 am
Walker wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:30 am No reality simulation can encompass reality because the simulation creator is apart from the simulation, within a greater reality that includes the reality simulation, and the simulation is not the creator of the simulation or the creator.
Closed system (Universe)
Actuality.

Skepdick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:37 am Open system (Multiverse)
NOT possible.
Skepdick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:37 am System of systems (Even bigger Multiverse)
Back to what the word 'Universe' ACTUALLY MEANS and REFERS TO.
Walker
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Walker »

Age wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:23 pm There might be an 'appearance' of "lesser" reality to some.
Only in relation to something else.

What is the something else that defines lesser?
Age
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Re: "In the beginning God created ...."

Post by Age »

Walker wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:58 pm
Age wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:23 pm There might be an 'appearance' of "lesser" reality to some.
Only in relation to something else.

What is the something else that defines lesser?
MISCONCEPTIONS.

There is NO actual physical or visible 'thing'. 'Conceiving' that there is a "lesser" and a "greater" 'Reality' is the "something else".

Will you provide an example of where you think or believe that there is a "lesser" or "greater" 'Reality' from 'Reality', Itself?

If you will do this, then we can LOOK AT and DISCUSS "this".

Your previous example of a 'simulated reality' has ALREADY BEEN SHOWN to be just a REAL 'thing', which is just part of ACTUAL 'Reality', Itself.
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