Another FREE WILL thread.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by Dontaskme »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:17 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:09 am Yes, that is known.
Obviously. I freely choose to know it.
That, which does the knowing, cannot itself be known, and can not know its self.

What does this expression say?.....Nothing.

What does it mean?....Nothing.

And yet........there is apparent meaning.

Free implies there is a ''free from'' - else, the word free has no meaning.

Free from, has to include it's opposite, were you ever free? only in the context of knowing you were bound.

.
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by attofishpi »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:34 am
Skepdick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:17 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:09 am Yes, that is known.
Obviously. I freely choose to know it.
That, which does the knowing, cannot itself be known, and can not know its self.

What does this expression say?.....Nothing.

What does it mean?....Nothing.

And yet........there is apparent meaning.

Free implies there is a ''free from'' - else, the word free has no meaning.

Free from, has to include it's opposite, were you ever free? only in the context of knowing you were bound.

.
..well thank fuck you have all the answers to nothing.
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bahman
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm God gives us free will to choose
Once baptised the experience of his salvation and relationship with God is called theosis. Mankind has free will to accept or reject the grace of God. Rejection of the gifts of God is called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (gifts of grace, faith, life).

______


In reality...Humans are not free nor do they have free will.
Mind is free. Mind cannot be created.
DPMartin
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by DPMartin »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm God gives us free will to choose
Once baptised the experience of his salvation and relationship with God is called theosis. Mankind has free will to accept or reject the grace of God. Rejection of the gifts of God is called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (gifts of grace, faith, life).

______


In reality...Humans are not free nor do they have free will.
freewill is a dilution in the case of choosing God. those that reject God's revelation of presence (Holy Spirit) is an blasphemy and unforgivable according to the NT, the same NT also mentions vessels made unto honor and dishonor. the reason the devil can not be redeemed is he has seen God and rejects.

but in biblical context God chooses, no one receives revelation of God's presence unless He chooses to do so. hence the experience of revelation is to know. so on and so forth.

but if you want to call the choice of doing your own thing and not a nations or a groups thing whereas nether have anything to do with God go ahead.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:21 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm God gives us free will to choose
Once baptised the experience of his salvation and relationship with God is called theosis. Mankind has free will to accept or reject the grace of God. Rejection of the gifts of God is called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (gifts of grace, faith, life).

______


In reality...Humans are not free nor do they have free will.
Mind is free. Mind cannot be created.
Conceptual thought such as ''free'' or ''bound'' is a creation of the mind which is uncreated :arrow: and is known as :arrow: ( The Not-Knowing Knowing) or ( The Uncreated Creation)

So mind in and of itself is just another myth, or illusion.

So the mind can be likened to a MIRROR.
The mirror is empty of any reflection, but the MIRROR IS there.
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bahman
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:45 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:21 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm God gives us free will to choose
Once baptised the experience of his salvation and relationship with God is called theosis. Mankind has free will to accept or reject the grace of God. Rejection of the gifts of God is called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (gifts of grace, faith, life).

______


In reality...Humans are not free nor do they have free will.
Mind is free. Mind cannot be created.
Conceptual thought such as ''free'' or ''bound'' is a creation of the mind which is uncreated :arrow: and is known as :arrow: ( The Not-Knowing Knowing) or ( The Uncreated Creation)
Yes.
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm So mind in and of itself is just another myth, or illusion.
So, you are just an illusion that is happening?
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm So the mind can be likened to a MIRROR.
The mirror is empty of any reflection, but the MIRROR IS there.
What are you talking about? What is the mirror?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:53 pm So, you are just an illusion that is happening?
Yes, the illusion of you is real, but only as a mirage is real, a mirage is both there and not there.
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm So the mind can be likened to a MIRROR.
The mirror is empty of any reflection, but the MIRROR IS there.
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:53 pmWhat are you talking about? What is the mirror?
The mirror a symbolic metaphor for the mind. A mirror must be empty for it to be able to reflect an image. The mirrors image is inseparable from the mirror itself, which means the mind is a kind of empty fullness. The mind is emptiness appearing full.
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bahman
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:01 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:53 pm So, you are just an illusion that is happening?
Yes, the illusion of you is real, but only as a mirage is real, a mirage is both there and not there.
Incoherent.
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:01 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm So the mind can be likened to a MIRROR.
The mirror is empty of any reflection, but the MIRROR IS there.
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:53 pmWhat are you talking about? What is the mirror?
The mirror a symbolic metaphor for the mind. A mirror must be empty for it to be able to reflect an image. The mirrors image is inseparable from the mirror itself, which means the mind is a kind of empty fullness. The mind is emptiness appearing full.
An empty thing cannot experience, decide, and cause.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:07 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:01 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:53 pm So, you are just an illusion that is happening?
Yes, the illusion of you is real, but only as a mirage is real, a mirage is both there and not there.
Incoherent.
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:01 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm So the mind can be likened to a MIRROR.
The mirror is empty of any reflection, but the MIRROR IS there.
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:53 pmWhat are you talking about? What is the mirror?
The mirror a symbolic metaphor for the mind. A mirror must be empty for it to be able to reflect an image. The mirrors image is inseparable from the mirror itself, which means the mind is a kind of empty fullness. The mind is emptiness appearing full.
An empty thing cannot experience, decide, and cause.
ok bahman.

I cannot make you see this how I am seeing it, you have to see what you want to see by yourself, I can't do that for you, so we'll just have to leave it there for now.

What ever you are trying to understand, you will understand eventually, want ever you want to know, you will find a way to know. I cannot expect you to know what I know, you can only know what you know. I can show you what I know, but if what I know does not ring true for you, then that's absolutely normal, for you can only see what you see.

.
gaffo
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by gaffo »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm God gives us free will to choose
Once baptised the experience of his salvation and relationship with God is called theosis. Mankind has free will to accept or reject the grace of God. Rejection of the gifts of God is called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (gifts of grace, faith, life).
______
freewill is overrated.

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm In reality...Humans are not free nor do they have free will.
exactly
gaffo
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by gaffo »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:32 am [
Unconditional implies unlimited actions may be taken. Reality doesn't work like that, there are conditions to adhere to, like for example, a human can not choose to be born, nor can they choose the moment of their natural death.

Truth is, there is no chooser, nor doer, except in this illusory conception.

God is a mental contruction, a myth.

no man chooses his DNA nor parents. I'm a good guy becauase of my DNA? or/and parents.

am i good becuase of the above two - or outside of via my freewill.

if i were born with bad DNA/Parents, would i still b the good guy i am today?

or just one like Bundy?


i lakc the ego to affirm freewill, and fully fine with thanking i had decent parents for the reuslt.


2 cents.
gaffo
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by gaffo »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:05 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:03 am Yes, ok, I get it, what you have said is known. And that which is known can know nothing.
I freely choose to know that I don't free will.
loll, i'm with you in this on.

welcome to the no-freewill club.

I have freewill to walk left or right, but not to act outside of my nature/instincts.
gaffo
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by gaffo »

DPMartin wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:01 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm God gives us free will to choose
Once baptised the experience of his salvation and relationship with God is called theosis. Mankind has free will to accept or reject the grace of God. Rejection of the gifts of God is called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (gifts of grace, faith, life).

______


In reality...Humans are not free nor do they have free will.
freewill is a dilution in the case of choosing God. those that reject God's revelation of presence (Holy Spirit) is an blasphemy and unforgivable according to the NT,
nope. your reference is not to NT but Saul's letter, and ihat offense si to the Holy Ghost (rejecting) not pr rejecting God YHWH or his son Jesus.


sso Saul (not the NT) - Saul, thought the rejection of YHWH and/or Christ was forgivable, but not that of rejecting the HG.

for whatever reason, no clue on that - welcome coucil on this matter.

DPMartin wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:01 pm
the same NT also mentions vessels made unto honor and dishonor. the reason the devil can not be redeemed is he has seen God and rejects.

but in biblical context God chooses, no one receives revelation of God's presence unless He chooses to do so. hence the experience of revelation is to know. so on and so forth.

but if you want to call the choice of doing your own thing and not a nations or a groups thing whereas nether have anything to do with God go ahead.
Belial know God in the OT while erving him, only latter became YHWH's enemy.
gaffo
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by gaffo »

bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:07 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:01 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:53 pm So, you are just an illusion that is happening?
Yes, the illusion of you is real, but only as a mirage is real, a mirage is both there and not there.
Incoherent.
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:01 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm So the mind can be likened to a MIRROR.
The mirror is empty of any reflection, but the MIRROR IS there.
bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:53 pmWhat are you talking about? What is the mirror?
The mirror a symbolic metaphor for the mind. A mirror must be empty for it to be able to reflect an image. The mirrors image is inseparable from the mirror itself, which means the mind is a kind of empty fullness. The mind is emptiness appearing full.
An empty thing cannot experience, decide, and cause.
agreed, word salad/sophistry in think
DPMartin
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Re: Another FREE WILL thread.

Post by DPMartin »

gaffo wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:50 am
DPMartin wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:01 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:55 pm God gives us free will to choose
Once baptised the experience of his salvation and relationship with God is called theosis. Mankind has free will to accept or reject the grace of God. Rejection of the gifts of God is called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (gifts of grace, faith, life).

______


In reality...Humans are not free nor do they have free will.
freewill is a dilution in the case of choosing God. those that reject God's revelation of presence (Holy Spirit) is an blasphemy and unforgivable according to the NT,
nope. your reference is not to NT but Saul's letter, and ihat offense si to the Holy Ghost (rejecting) not pr rejecting God YHWH or his son Jesus.


sso Saul (not the NT) - Saul, thought the rejection of YHWH and/or Christ was forgivable, but not that of rejecting the HG.

for whatever reason, no clue on that - welcome coucil on this matter.
according to Jesus God is a Spirit, therefore the Holy Spirit is the presence of God as described elsewhere, as in indwell and one is a temple hence a dwelling place of the presence of God in the case of the born again. so the rejection of God's presence is the rejection of the Holy Spirit. you know 2+2 =4

also Saul, now Paul the Apostle to the gentiles, his writings are officially included as a part of the NT

DPMartin wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:01 pm
the same NT also mentions vessels made unto honor and dishonor. the reason the devil can not be redeemed is he has seen God and rejects.

but in biblical context God chooses, no one receives revelation of God's presence unless He chooses to do so. hence the experience of revelation is to know. so on and so forth.

but if you want to call the choice of doing your own thing and not a nations or a groups thing whereas nether have anything to do with God go ahead.
Belial know God in the OT while erving him, only latter became YHWH's enemy.
Balaam served Balak the son of Zippor and the princes of Moab, not the Lord God of Israel. Balaam was a diviner of which the Lord used for the sake and faith of the children of Israel.

the Lord God tells Satan what to do, or what he may do, as in the book of Job for example, doesn't mean there's a relationship of a heavenly nature, does it?
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