Who Sinned First?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Age
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by Age »

VVilliam wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:44 pm
Age wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:04 am
VVilliam wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:56 am

The evidence suggests that it was Adam...
If the "evidence", to you, suggests that who sinned first was "adam", then so what?

Was there any purpose to this thread, other than you just showing and revealing what you assume and believe is true?
I am not assuming anything. I have showed how the bullet points about the supposed event] clearly indicate that it was Adam, not Eve, who sinned first.
What the word 'sin' here has NOT EVEN YET been 'stipulated', 'agreed upon', and 'accepted', let alone what you have CLAIMED being agreed upon and accepted as well. So, JUMPING to the "conclusion" that you have here is COMPLETELY PRESUMPTIVE of 'you'.

Also do NOT forget that they ARE only 'your' bullet points ALONE, which could OBVIOUSLY have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to do with the INTENDED MEANING behind the 'writer's intention.
VVilliam wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:44 pm That was the purpose of the thread.
What was the purpose of this thread?

If the purpose of this thread, or 'yours', was just so you show your CLAIM that it was "adam" that first 'sinned' (whatever that word actually means to you in this thread), then, ONCE MORE, What was the purpose of you just showing what you BELIEVE here is the case.
VVilliam wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:44 pm Most Christians believe that the 'story' [such as it is] tell them that sin entered the world through Eve. Clearly that is not the case.
That is OBVIOUSLY 'clearly NOT the case', from your perspective ALONE here.

Also, so what if SOME human beings, called by ANY name, BELIEVE that 'sin' (whatever that word actually means to you or them] " entered the, so called, "world" " through "eve", or "adam"? What bearing would that make on ABSOLUTELY ANY 'thing'?

Also, LOL "the 'story' [such as 'it' is]".

You have ABSOLUTELY NO idea NOR clue what the 'story' ACTUALLY IS, (or more correctly ACTUALLY WAS). You ONLY have an INTERPRETED VERSION of the 'story' [such as 'it' WAS]. And, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to suggest that YOUR VERSION of the 'story' is even remotely CLOSE to the 'original' 'story'. Which brings us back, by the way, to what the 'original' INTENDED PURPOSE and 'original' True MEANING BEHIND the 'original' INTENDED MESSAGE in THAT 'story', which is in relation to the 'original' 'sin', if one MUST KNOW.
VVilliam wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:44 pm Do you have anything which shows that I am mistaken in my examination of the evidence?
How could 'you' ever be 'mistaken' in how you LOOK AT and SEE 'things'? Especially in regards to what is, essentially, just a 'story', which, by the way, has OBVIOUSLY been CHANGED an unknown amount of times anyway?

Also, I am asking 'you' WHAT IS 'your' purpose in starting a thread about HOW 'you' BELIEVE "adam" 'sin' first?

That you BELIEVE you have some 'evidence' that this is TRUE is of NO importance YET. I am just trying to ascertain WHY you started this thread.

We can LOOK AT, and DISCUSS, your YET UNPROVEN, so called, "evidence" later on. But first things FIRST. What is the ACTUAL PURPOSE for this thread, of YOURS here?

SEE, when writers write some 'thing', there is an 'intention' or 'purpose' behind what they write. So, what is YOUR 'intention' or 'purpose' behind this thread that you started?
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by Skip »

Stop, boy-foot bear with teaks of Chan!
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by VVilliam »

It is settled then. Adam used the woman as a lab rat and some arseholes think that is acceptable behaviour.
Age
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by Age »

Scott Mayers wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:29 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:29 am
Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:17 am
The 'curse' in the Adam and Eve story is not originally literal. It was a means of passing on the general collective ideas from all cultures regarding why we as humans were distinctly intelligent enough over all other parts of nature yet appear unable to solve the question, why do we require suffering to live?.

"Adam" represents ANY first person, the 'atomic' being who seems to think differently to other animals, and "Eve" refers to all other people that follow. [And why 'eve-' terms are used expressively to refer to infinite concepts, like 'ever'. The terms, odd and even also relate.

The curse was about becoming intelligent (as the 'gods'). When we are all young we want to grow up quick thinking that being an adult would be ideal. But the curse is discovering that once you KNOW something, such as the 'secrets of the universe', you can no longer be privileged to be naive and are forced to recognize that struggle and death are not even something that the 'gods' (where they could exist) could prevent. The curse is the loss of our naivety and the recognizition of life not being so 'fair' as our minds as children would normally default to: that we cannot live forever. [Thus evening brings death in the comparative way of our sun each day, an inevitible reality.]

Note that the term, 'evil' has the root of Eve there too! So this is why the mistaken interpretation that the cartoon representing the concept of Eve, was necessarily relevant to sex or to individual persons.
What a load of convoluted nonsense. And 'evil' does not have the same root as 'Eve'.
"Evil" is from "Eve" + "el" and refers to "after thee", where 'thee' was a prepostion for "Adam", which in turn derives from the same term that gives us "Autumn" (intentional respelling to hide the connection), for "the fall". And in context to the Adam and Eve story, The intentional meaning of "evil" in English derived from a derogatory interpretation of Eve as the CAUSE of the fall. That "Eve" was not intended to originally mean anything literally bad, death is interpreted as what occurs after the fall, "Adam", which in turn was the reference of Earth's relative position to Aten (the sun).

The convoluted nonsense you speak of comes by those who reinterpreted ancient COMMON stories meant ONLY to aid the memory of people in a world where hardly anyone was even able to read, to become LITERAL beings. For example, Adam's "rib" [modern reinterpretations] would have been understood THEN as the male penis (as in 'boner') and held some humor to its original listeners. The overall intentional caricature used the names of the characters in their stories from common terms for normal everyday concepts then understood.

Examples: "Eden" was the place where the sun rose (the East), "Aten" was the noon sun, "Atum" the EVEning sun or its fall. When one culture wants to hide the root associations of some prior culture, people will alter subtle differences in spellings and/or pronunciations that evolve to appear as though they had no connection far off into the future. Today's religious interpretion of collections of writings (scriptures) of the past LOSE the connection in the same way game of 'telephone' proves to distort the original input messages by the biases of the listener passing on their INTERPETATION bias along with what they hear.

So the 'sin', human intelligence, was NOT a crime, but a rationalizing of DEATH for us humans who evolved to reflect upon our existence intelletually. Only later distortions of the initial mundane meanings are what makes those stories seem so unique and odd to us. We are 'cursed' to recognize death as the depressing reality relative to our naive childhood interpretation that we can live forever.

AS to the question of the OP, then, both characters caricaturing us all did not 'sin' in our modern interpretation as something 'evil'. Both 'sin' and 'evil' derive from non-devious meanings. "Sin" was likely from Greek where "sine", for example, and where our modern terms that use, "syn-" to refer to two parts coinciding in a whole. If any actual 'sin' is referenced, it is our intellect in contrast to what we would think (falsely) of other non-human animals as being 'naive' or relatively blind or dumb.

I think the story is clever for their times if one removes the religious literalist interpretations. Many other stories of supposed 'real' characters in the other books (or parts) of the Bible were also likely valid if understood in the context of the original writers without actual religious interpretations.
Could the story of "eve" and "adam" just be a story about HOW and WHEN human beings came to evolve? That story after all is about HOW from 'earth' came, or evolved, "adam", from "adam" came, or evolved, "eve", and when through evolution, itself, a species called the 'human beings', themselves, came, or evolved, into existence, which was WHEN "adam" AND "eve", human beings, came, or evolved, into adult hood, with the realization that they actually did KNOW right from wrong. Before this there were just species of animals living 'naively', who had evolved in and with NOT knowing. When one of these species evolved further along the evolutionary trail, to and with a sense of KNOWING, then this is when human beings FIRST came into being and existing.

Could this be why "adam" and "eve" were said to be the FIRST human beings? NOT because they were created and 'dropped here on earth', by some magical way, but just because they were 'created', through the evolutionary process, to become the way they, and 'you' are? That is; A species with the ability to learn, SEE, understand, and reason. Which, obviously, as far as 'we' KNOW, NO other living animal NOR species has.
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Re: Who Sinned First?

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Age wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 am
Could the story of "eve" and "adam" just be a story about HOW and WHEN human beings came to evolve?
I don't think it qualifies as an actual story, but regardless, it is not what the thread is focusing on. Rather it is focusing on the bullets point Genesis gives which show clearly that Adam was the one who was first in the wrong.

Further to that, it is clear that any men who treat a woman like Adam treated Eve, are also wrong.
Scott Mayers
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Re: Who Sinned First?

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Age wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 am Could the story of "eve" and "adam" just be a story about HOW and WHEN human beings came to evolve? That story after all is about HOW from 'earth' came, or evolved, "adam", from "adam" came, or evolved, "eve", and when through evolution, itself, a species called the 'human beings', themselves, came, or evolved, into existence, which was WHEN "adam" AND "eve", human beings, came, or evolved, into adult hood, with the realization that they actually did KNOW right from wrong. Before this there were just species of animals living 'naively', who had evolved in and with NOT knowing. When one of these species evolved further along the evolutionary trail, to and with a sense of KNOWING, then this is when human beings FIRST came into being and existing.

Could this be why "adam" and "eve" were said to be the FIRST human beings? NOT because they were created and 'dropped here on earth', by some magical way, but just because they were 'created', through the evolutionary process, to become the way they, and 'you' are? That is; A species with the ability to learn, SEE, understand, and reason. Which, obviously, as far as 'we' KNOW, NO other living animal NOR species has.
Yes. I think that the cleverness of HOW it was written was to respect multiple interpretations that least insulted anyone (where possible). But I think this story is NOT originally simply of one genetic class of people like the Hebrews. They were just the ones to capitalize on it when all the prior works had eventually been distroyed. It's 'rational' in light of interpretation ABOUT humanity in light of other animals and why intelligence itself does not seem to be completely enough. The modern views mostly focus on the sexual connotation regarding the 'nakedness' Adam and Eve but notice how it was the 'knowledge' itself that cursed them. Thus, to become wise like God comes with a curse regardless.
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by Dontaskme »

VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am
Age wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 am
Could the story of "eve" and "adam" just be a story about HOW and WHEN human beings came to evolve?
I don't think it qualifies as an actual story, but regardless, it is not what the thread is focusing on. Rather it is focusing on the bullets point Genesis gives which show clearly that Adam was the one who was first in the wrong.

Further to that, it is clear that any men who treat a woman like Adam treated Eve, are also wrong.
It is a story. All human knowledge is a story.

The characters in the story are like action figures, they like to play out their thoughts as and through their actions, and their thoughts are representive of archetypes (in Jungian psychology) a collectively inherited unconscious idea, pattern of thought, image, etc., universally present in individual psyches.

Archetypical characters of the story are :arrow:

1: GOD ( pure unconscious awareness)
2: Adam ( consciousness/knowledge)
3: Eve ( the proof is in the pudding)

These 3 characters are all the same ONE ..which is YOU identified with your own individual thoughts and experiences, which appear to you as being the same as you, but ARE NOT you, because you are simply the one who is aware of your thoughts and experiences, but you are not the same as them. This realisation is a huge game changer.

So what is meant by the 3 characters are all the same ONE. . :arrow: When unconscious awareness (aka God) KNOWS sensation (aka Adam aka God in the flesh) consciousness is then born in the flesh, and the proof is in the tasting as and through Eve, the living evidence and testimony...This story is symbolic of YOU..THE ONLY YOU THERE IS....including all other apparent you's.

And so, coming to the reason why men and women in realtime reality treat each other wrongly is because they are unaware of being falsely identified with themselves as being separate characters, only because they are conscious of the existence of knowledge of good and bad, and can act out those roles if they choose to do so, never realising that the roles they play, are not who they are in reality. In reality, they are only witnessing their roles. They are NOT the same as their roles, and that's why they fight with each other because they believe they are their bad thoughts.

When they realise who they really are, they would probably then be able to live in peace and harmony.



.
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VVilliam
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by VVilliam »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:15 am
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am
Age wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 am
Could the story of "eve" and "adam" just be a story about HOW and WHEN human beings came to evolve?
I don't think it qualifies as an actual story, but regardless, it is not what the thread is focusing on. Rather it is focusing on the bullets point Genesis gives which show clearly that Adam was the one who was first in the wrong.

Further to that, it is clear that any men who treat a woman like Adam treated Eve, are also wrong.
It is a story. All human knowledge is a story.

The characters in the story are like action figures, they like to play out their thoughts as and through their actions, and their thoughts are representive of archetypes (in Jungian psychology) a collectively inherited unconscious idea, pattern of thought, image, etc., universally present in individual psyches.

Archetypical characters of the story are :arrow:

1: GOD ( pure unconscious awareness)
2: Adam ( consciousness/knowledge)
3: Eve ( the proof is in the pudding)

These 3 characters are all the same ONE ..which is YOU identified with your own individual thoughts and experiences, which appear to you as being the same as you, but ARE NOT you, because you are simply the one who is aware of your thoughts and experiences, but you are not the same as them. This realisation is a huge game changer.

So what is meant by the 3 characters are all the same ONE. . :arrow: When unconscious awareness (aka God) KNOWS sensation (aka Adam aka God in the flesh) consciousness is then born in the flesh, and the proof is in the tasting as and through Eve, the living evidence and testimony...This story is symbolic of YOU..THE ONLY YOU THERE IS....including all other apparent you's.

And so, coming to the reason why men and women in realtime reality treat each other wrongly is because they are unaware of being falsely identified with themselves as being separate characters, only because they are conscious of the existence of knowledge of good and bad, and can act out those roles if they choose to do so, never realising that the roles they play, are not who they are in reality. In reality, they are only witnessing their roles. They are NOT the same as their roles, and that's why they fight with each other because they believe they are their bad thoughts.

When they realise who they really are, they would probably then be able to live in peace and harmony.
1: It is not a 'story' as it is presented. It is bullet points pointing to a story.
2: There are four main characters, not three.

You wrote:
"1: GOD ( pure unconscious awareness)
2: Adam ( consciousness/knowledge)
3: Eve ( the proof is in the pudding) "

What is 'pure unconscious awareness'? How can one be unconscious and aware at the same time?

In relation to your comment re Eve, what are you suggesting there?
I do have more to say in reply to your reasoning, but would like you to answer those questions first, if you will.
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by Age »

VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am
Age wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 am
Could the story of "eve" and "adam" just be a story about HOW and WHEN human beings came to evolve?
I don't think it qualifies as an actual story, but regardless, it is not what the thread is focusing on.
If you do not think that the story of "adam" and "eve" does not qualify as an 'actual' story, then what do you think that actual story of "adam" and "eve" qualifies as, actually?

Also, 'threads', themselves, neither focus on nor not focus on anything. Only animals, like 'you', human beings, focus on or not focus on things.
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am Rather it is focusing on the bullets point Genesis gives which show clearly that Adam was the one who was first in the wrong.
'you', so called, "vvilliam", is the one who is focusing on, what you claim here is true. Again, 'threads', themselves, do not focus.

Is "genesis" an actual story to you, or do you not think that that story is not an actual story also?

And, I have already pointed out that you are, obviously, only wanting to look at and discuss YOUR OWN version of things here.

Also, I have already asked you to clarify about what does it matter if "adam" or if "eve" were first in the, so called, "wrong" here now?
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am Further to that, it is clear that any men who treat a woman like Adam treated Eve, are also wrong.
So, to you, "men", themselves, are wrong when they do what you do not like, correct?

Most human beings with INSIGHT, however, SEE that the behavior 'you', human beings, do is wrong, and NOT necessarily so the human being, its self. But each to their own.

Furthermore, let us take a look back at what has actually happened and occurred throughout this thread.

A poster begins a thread, asking who 'sinned' first.

This poster will ONLY look at and discuss one particular version of a story, which is the One, and the ONLY One version, that they WILL look at and discuss. From this One version ONLY they have DECLARED that "adam" is the one who 'sinned' first.

This poster, however, has not cleared up once and for all what the word 'sin' means, absolutely here.

This poster also makes the claim that it is CLEARLY SHOWN that "adam" is the one who was "first in the wrong", as though this is of any importance in Life. What this claim/conclusion is supposedly based on EXACTLY no one else here KNOWS.

This poster also claims that, "it is CLEAR that ANY men who treat a woman like "adam" treated "eve", are also WRONG. Yet how "adam" actually treated "eve" is OBVIOUSLY completely UNKNOWN to that poster AND to the rest of 'us' reading this.

What this poster appears to be doing here is EXACTLY what "adam" is said to have done, in that story, which was; BLAMING someone ELSE.

If "adam" was to first, what you call "wrong", then SO WHAT? What has that got to do with ANY 'thing'?

Also, is it NOT just an ALREADY KNOWN FACT that if ANY one, male or female, MISTREATS another 'thing', animal, mineral, or vegetable, then this is just and OBVIOUSLY WRONG behavior, anyway.

For example, if a "woman" mistreats a "man", then is this also considered WRONG, in your eyes? Or, is it only WRONG, to you, when a "man" mistreats a
"woman", like supposedly "adam" treated "eve" (whatever that way supposedly was meant to be)?
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by Age »

Scott Mayers wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:13 am
Age wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 am Could the story of "eve" and "adam" just be a story about HOW and WHEN human beings came to evolve? That story after all is about HOW from 'earth' came, or evolved, "adam", from "adam" came, or evolved, "eve", and when through evolution, itself, a species called the 'human beings', themselves, came, or evolved, into existence, which was WHEN "adam" AND "eve", human beings, came, or evolved, into adult hood, with the realization that they actually did KNOW right from wrong. Before this there were just species of animals living 'naively', who had evolved in and with NOT knowing. When one of these species evolved further along the evolutionary trail, to and with a sense of KNOWING, then this is when human beings FIRST came into being and existing.

Could this be why "adam" and "eve" were said to be the FIRST human beings? NOT because they were created and 'dropped here on earth', by some magical way, but just because they were 'created', through the evolutionary process, to become the way they, and 'you' are? That is; A species with the ability to learn, SEE, understand, and reason. Which, obviously, as far as 'we' KNOW, NO other living animal NOR species has.
Yes. I think that the cleverness of HOW it was written was to respect multiple interpretations that least insulted anyone (where possible). But I think this story is NOT originally simply of one genetic class of people like the Hebrews. They were just the ones to capitalize on it when all the prior works had eventually been distroyed. It's 'rational' in light of interpretation ABOUT humanity in light of other animals and why intelligence itself does not seem to be completely enough. The modern views mostly focus on the sexual connotation regarding the 'nakedness' Adam and Eve but notice how it was the 'knowledge' itself that cursed them. Thus, to become wise like God comes with a curse regardless.
After evolving to the "adam" and "eve", human being, evolutionary stage of Life, could the 'curse', itself, of becoming wise like God just be that no matter how hard we 'try to' 'justify' our WRONG BEHAVIORS, we ALL KNOW, deep down, that we are actually DOING WRONG?

By the way, the 'curse' if LIFTED with and though absolute Honesty, OPENNESS, and Want of CHANGE, for the better. We had now learned that we actually do now KNOW right from wrong. So, we can NOT Truly 'justify' our wrong behaviors, although ALL adults 'try to'.

Also, could the 'nakedness' have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to do ANY 'sexual connotation' AT ALL?

After ALL EVERY, so called and WRONGLY called, "non civilized" culture are NOT 'naked', in ANY 'sexual connotation' of that word. Hiding sexual organs of the body, 'non nakedness' just puts the exposing or seeing of them into a 'sexual connotation'. Obviously, if one grew up around seeing ALL human beings without 'clothes' on, then there would NOT be ANY 'sexual connotation' AT ALL in regards to what is only now called 'nakedness'.

Could the 'nakedness' in relation to the FIRST of the human being species, which evolved, and were created from prior species, just be in relation to the 'clothing', or the 'hiding', of thee REAL and True Self? Which could ALL become CRYSTAL CLEAR with the REVEALING of thee True Self?
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by VVilliam »

Age wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 am
Could the story of Adam and Eve just be a story about how and when human beings came to evolve?
I don't think it qualifies as an actual story, but regardless, it is not what the thread is focusing on. [/quote]
If you do not think that the story of Adam and Eve does not qualify as an 'actual' story, then what do you think that actual story of Adam and Eve qualifies as, actually?
Bullet points.
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am Rather it is focusing on the bullet points Genesis gives which show clearly that Adam was the one who was first in the wrong.
Also, I have already asked you to clarify about what does it matter if Adam or if Eve were first in the, so called, wrong here now?
It matters in that so many millions are under the impression and believe it was Eve who wronged first, and therefore I used the bullet points as a means of fleshing out the story the bullet points are pointing to.
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am Further to that, it is clear that any men who treat a woman like Adam treated Eve, are also wrong.
So, to you, men, themselves, are wrong when they do what you do not like, correct?
No. Whether I like or dislike it is not the point. The point is that tradition has it that Eve brought sin into the world, and as a consequence this can have an affect upon how men who believe this to be the case, treat women.
History shows that men who believe this, have not treated women very well.
If a woman mistreats a man, then is this also considered wrong, in your eyes?
Yes.
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:15 am
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am
Age wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 am
Could the story of "eve" and "adam" just be a story about HOW and WHEN human beings came to evolve?
I don't think it qualifies as an actual story, but regardless, it is not what the thread is focusing on. Rather it is focusing on the bullets point Genesis gives which show clearly that Adam was the one who was first in the wrong.

Further to that, it is clear that any men who treat a woman like Adam treated Eve, are also wrong.
It is a story. All human knowledge is a story.

The characters in the story are like action figures, they like to play out their thoughts as and through their actions, and their thoughts are representive of archetypes (in Jungian psychology) a collectively inherited unconscious idea, pattern of thought, image, etc., universally present in individual psyches.

Archetypical characters of the story are :arrow:

1: GOD ( pure unconscious awareness)
This is; UNTIL Life, Itself, evolves enough, through evolving species, to become PURELY Consciously AWARE.

The human being species is only one of the evolutionary countless parts of Life, Itself, becoming Consciously AWARE of Itself. The human being stage along thee Knowing Thy Self is obviously NOT at that KNOWING stage, JUST YET.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:15 am 2: Adam ( consciousness/knowledge)
3: Eve ( the proof is in the pudding)

These 3 characters are all the same ONE ..which is YOU identified with your own individual thoughts and experiences, which appear to you as being the same as you, but ARE NOT you, because you are simply the one who is aware of your thoughts and experiences, but you are not the same as them. This realisation is a huge game changer.
This realization is a huge "game changer" in relation to 'what', EXACTLY?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:15 am So what is meant by the 3 characters are all the same ONE. . :arrow: When unconscious awareness (aka God) KNOWS sensation (aka Adam aka God in the flesh) consciousness is then born in the flesh, and the proof is in the tasting as and through Eve, the living evidence and testimony...This story is symbolic of YOU..THE ONLY YOU THERE IS....including all other apparent you's.
After all this time "dontaskme' have you never considered just using two different words instead of continually saying there is and there is not a 'you', or that there is only 'you' but there are many apparent 'you's'?

Is it REALLY not possible to just give the One and ONLY 'you' one name and ALL of the apparent other 'you's' another name?

I found doing this extremely helpful in EXPLAINING this MUCH BETTER.
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:15 am And so, coming to the reason why men and women in realtime reality treat each other wrongly is because they are unaware of being falsely identified with themselves as being separate characters, only because they are conscious of the existence of knowledge of good and bad, and can act out those roles if they choose to do so, never realising that the roles they play, are not who they are in reality. In reality, they are only witnessing their roles.
When you say the word 'they' in this last sentence are you referring to an ONLY One 'they' or to many?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:15 am They are NOT the same as their roles, and that's why they fight with each other because they believe they are their bad thoughts.
How MANY of 'you', human beings, BELIEVE 'you' are "your" bad thoughts?
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:15 am When they realise who they really are, they would probably then be able to live in peace and harmony.
.
When 'you', human beings, do realize 'who' and 'what' thy True Self REALLY IS, or as you just said, 'who' they REALLY ARE, then 'you', human beings, WILL evolve past and UP out of that stage along the evolutionary path and INTO a more UPLIFTING HIGHER stage, where, as One, 'we' ALL begin to start living in Peace and in Harmony.
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by Age »

VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:34 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:15 am
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am

I don't think it qualifies as an actual story, but regardless, it is not what the thread is focusing on. Rather it is focusing on the bullets point Genesis gives which show clearly that Adam was the one who was first in the wrong.

Further to that, it is clear that any men who treat a woman like Adam treated Eve, are also wrong.
It is a story. All human knowledge is a story.

The characters in the story are like action figures, they like to play out their thoughts as and through their actions, and their thoughts are representive of archetypes (in Jungian psychology) a collectively inherited unconscious idea, pattern of thought, image, etc., universally present in individual psyches.

Archetypical characters of the story are :arrow:

1: GOD ( pure unconscious awareness)
2: Adam ( consciousness/knowledge)
3: Eve ( the proof is in the pudding)

These 3 characters are all the same ONE ..which is YOU identified with your own individual thoughts and experiences, which appear to you as being the same as you, but ARE NOT you, because you are simply the one who is aware of your thoughts and experiences, but you are not the same as them. This realisation is a huge game changer.

So what is meant by the 3 characters are all the same ONE. . :arrow: When unconscious awareness (aka God) KNOWS sensation (aka Adam aka God in the flesh) consciousness is then born in the flesh, and the proof is in the tasting as and through Eve, the living evidence and testimony...This story is symbolic of YOU..THE ONLY YOU THERE IS....including all other apparent you's.

And so, coming to the reason why men and women in realtime reality treat each other wrongly is because they are unaware of being falsely identified with themselves as being separate characters, only because they are conscious of the existence of knowledge of good and bad, and can act out those roles if they choose to do so, never realising that the roles they play, are not who they are in reality. In reality, they are only witnessing their roles. They are NOT the same as their roles, and that's why they fight with each other because they believe they are their bad thoughts.

When they realise who they really are, they would probably then be able to live in peace and harmony.
1: It is not a 'story' as it is presented. It is bullet points pointing to a story.
And 'what' EXACTLY are the "bullet points"?

You, here, appear to be the ONLY one who KNOWS of them.

Also, what is the ACTUAL story, which you CLAIM the, alleged, "bullet points" point to?

VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:34 pm 2: There are four main characters, not three.
I think you MISSED the point "dontaskme" was getting at.
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:34 pm You wrote:
"1: GOD ( pure unconscious awareness)
2: Adam ( consciousness/knowledge)
3: Eve ( the proof is in the pudding) "

What is 'pure unconscious awareness'? How can one be unconscious and aware at the same time?

In relation to your comment re Eve, what are you suggesting there?
I do have more to say in reply to your reasoning, but would like you to answer those questions first, if you will.
Age
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by Age »

VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:04 am
Age wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 am
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am
I don't think it qualifies as an actual story, but regardless, it is not what the thread is focusing on.
If you do not think that the story of "adam" and "eve" does not qualify as an 'actual' story, then what do you think that actual story of "adam" and "eve" qualifies as, actually?
Bullet points.
Bullet points for or to 'what', EXACTLY?

And what are the actual 'bullet points', themselves?
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am Rather it is focusing on the bullet points Genesis gives which show clearly that Adam was the one who was first in the wrong.
Also, I have already asked you to clarify about what does it matter if Adam or if Eve were first in the, so called, wrong here now?
It matters in that so many millions are under the impression and believe it was Eve who wronged first, and therefore I used the bullet points as a means of fleshing out the story the bullet points are pointing to.[/quote]

Thank God "vvilliam" is here, in LIVING FORM, to "flesh out" what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, and then to provide 'this' for the "so many millions" who are under the WRONG IMPRESSION.

How come 'you', "vvilliam" could obtain the True and Right IMPRESSION when "so many millions" could NOT?

When did you do this, and HOW did you do this?
VVilliam wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:41 am Further to that, it is clear that any men who treat a woman like Adam treated Eve, are also wrong.
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:04 am
So, to you, men, themselves, are wrong when they do what you do not like, correct?
No. Whether I like or dislike it is not the point. The point is that tradition has it that Eve brought sin into the world, and as a consequence this can have an affect upon how men who believe this to be the case, treat women.
HOW and WHY?

Also, HOW EXACTLY did "adam" treat "eve"?
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:04 am History shows that men who believe this, have not treated women very well.
LOL And WHEN and WHERE in history is this SHOWN?

And, now that 'you' have SHOWN that it is ACTUALLY 'men' who, SUPPOSEDLY and ALLEGEDLY, FIRST WRONGED (brought sin into the world), could a consequence now be that this will have an effect upon how women who BELIEVE 'this' to be the case, will now treat men?

If yes, then WHY do you think or believe this? AND, WHY would you then do this to 'men'?

But if this will NOT have an effect on women in how they treat men, then WHY say and claim that this occurs the other way around?
VVilliam wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:04 am
If a woman mistreats a man, then is this also considered wrong, in your eyes?
Yes.
Great, so 'wrong' is 'wrong' no matter who is doing it or who it is being done to, correct?
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VVilliam
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Re: Who Sinned First?

Post by VVilliam »

Age wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:14 am




I think you MISSED the point "dontaskme" was getting at.

Is "dontaskme" one of your sockpuppets?
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