Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

[Greatest I am]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Our first allegiance is to our countries.

Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.

Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?

Negative discrimination without a just cause is what Yahweh admits to doing in Job 2;3., when he allowed Satan to move him to sin against Job.

Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.

Regards
DL

[DPMartin]

no more then countries that do have inequality for women and gays are traitors to their countries for preaching against it's laws.

[attofishpi]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Our first allegiance is to our countries.

Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.

Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?

Negative discrimination without a just cause is what Yahweh admits to doing in Job 2;3., when he allowed Satan to move him to sin against Job.

Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.

Regards
DL

U R so very very confused between the Churches that think they represent Christ, and Christ (indeed actual Christianity) arn't you?

[Immanuel Can]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Which "country"?

In a place like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Iran, they might be the most loyal to their country.

[Iwannaplato]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Our first allegiance is to our countries.

It is? What does that mean? Should I be loyal to my country when it goes against my morality? What position does that entail, for example, during the Vietnam war? Would it entail that I should have served in the military? Would it entail that I refuse to serve?

Does it matter what my country is or does when I give it first priority?

Does this rule out civil disobedience, conscientious objection, critique?

Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.

Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?

If members of the religion break the law, in most countries they risk prison, etc. So, they are asked to follow the law. They get to think whatever they want in much of the West.

Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.

Is this a sin? Sin is a religious evaluation. Of course those that are like this do not see it as sins. IOW it is as if you are presenting an argument that they must acknowledge given their positions on things. But they don't. You are judging them from your morality and they are judging others from their morality. Now I dislike homophobia and sexism, but if one reads your post it is as if you have demonstrated they are wrong. All you have done is shown that they are out of step with the laws of certain countries. According the dominant morality, now, in those countries, they are immoral. That's all.

[Iwannaplato]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Which "country"?

In a place like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Iran, they might be the most loyal to their country.

Yes, exactly. I found his argument an odd one. It is as if they are contradicting themselves but they aren't. They have a morality. It might match their country's, it might not. Homophobia, for example, was once the dominant attitude in even Western countries and perfect legal to act from in many situations: jobs, housing, etc. According to his argument people who then attacked these positions were being immoral since they were going against their countries. I found the whole thing a mish-mosh. He didn't demonstrate hypocrisy or contradiction. It's just judgment from one morality against another. Not that that's wrong, but that's what it is, not whatever he seems to be trying to do.

[Immanuel Can]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Which "country"?

In a place like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Iran, they might be the most loyal to their country.

Yes, exactly. I found his argument an odd one. It is as if they are contradicting themselves but they aren't. They have a morality. It might match their country's, it might not....

Quite so. Well said.

His assumption seems to be that "we all know" that certain things are not sins, and certain things are: happily for him, these all just happen to turn out to be his own opinions. And he seems also to think that "the country" is the unified authority for saying what "we all know" to be moral. Otherwise, the association of dissent with disloyalty wouldn't make sense.

But is it true that, say, the US is unified on the status of gayness or women or whatever? Or is it a liberal democracy, in which a range of moral opinions are allowed to exist and be expressed? And if its' a liberal democracy, then to dissent from his moral suppositions is not some act of "disloyalty," but rather an action supportive of democratic freedoms, in every way congenial to the mandate of the polity, and part of the very natural order of things in a polity that is genuinely multicultural and prizes free speech. Short of anybody exhorting direct violence against a group, a democratic polity requires that they must be allowed to speak and hold their contrary opinions.

It's just judgment from one morality against another. Not that that's wrong, but that's what it is, not whatever he seems to be trying to do.

Yes, it is that. But it's not wrong to tell somebody else, "Your morality is incorrect." That's exactly what we ought to be doing, if we prize things like freedom of conscience and freedom of speech, and if we think the free exchange of views (so long as not accompanied by violence) is a way to learn and grow. You should be able to tell people you don't agree with their moral assessments, without being penalized, shut down or called "disloyal" for doing it.

[Terrapin Station]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Our first allegiance is to our countries.

Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.

Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?

Negative discrimination without a just cause is what Yahweh admits to doing in Job 2;3., when he allowed Satan to move him to sin against Job.

Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.

Regards
DL

Any sincerely religious person is not going to have allegiance to a country over their god(s) and their god's (gods') laws.

[Skepdick]

Any sincerely religious person is not going to have allegiance to a country over their god(s) and their god's (gods') laws.

Any person who believes in laws/rules is religious.

The laws of logic... religion.
The rules of mathematics....religion.

Ultimate judgment is human, if you outsource your autonomy to man-made rules without understanding the limits at which they are no longer applicable: you are religious.

[Greatest I am]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Our first allegiance is to our countries.

Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.

Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?

Negative discrimination without a just cause is what Yahweh admits to doing in Job 2;3., when he allowed Satan to move him to sin against Job.

Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.

Regards
DL

Any sincerely religious person is not going to have allegiance to a country over their god(s) and their god's (gods') laws.

Yet the country is what gives and protects all free people's rights enough to choose which law to follow.

You do recognize, I hope, that we are talking of a genocidal slave wanting fascist god, Yahweh. Right?

How do you see such an evil entity as a good place to find good morals?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

no more then countries that do have inequality for women and gays are traitors to their countries for preaching against it's laws.

Those two sets of opposite laws are equal in moral value to you?

Please explain.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Which "country"?

In a place like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Iran, they might be the most loyal to their country.

Point to your short list.

Secular laws are slowly civilizing all the more backwards religions.

I do what I can in civilizing Christianity and all the vile god religions.

Every civilized moral person will follow.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Our first allegiance is to our countries.

It is? What does that mean? Should I be loyal to my country when it goes against my morality? What position does that entail, for example, during the Vietnam war? Would it entail that I should have served in the military? Would it entail that I refuse to serve?

Does it matter what my country is or does when I give it first priority?

Does this rule out civil disobedience, conscientious objection, critique?

Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.

Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?

If members of the religion break the law, in most countries they risk prison, etc. So, they are asked to follow the law. They get to think whatever they want in much of the West.

Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.

Is this a sin? Sin is a religious evaluation. Of course those that are like this do not see it as sins. IOW it is as if you are presenting an argument that they must acknowledge given their positions on things. But they don't. You are judging them from your morality and they are judging others from their morality. Now I dislike homophobia and sexism, but if one reads your post it is as if you have demonstrated they are wrong. All you have done is shown that they are out of step with the laws of certain countries. According the dominant morality, now, in those countries, they are immoral. That's all.

Nice that we agree.

As to the limits you spoke of, you are a free person and set your own limits.

I broke the law of the land to protest it. That, to me, is how one improves things if one is right.

To allow religions to preach against better laws of the land, is insanity and treason.

If that is true, and it is, what does it tell you of your mainstream religions?

Regards
DL

[Immanuel Can]

Secular laws are slowly civilizing all the more backwards religions.

Yeah...that's working out well in China, and in Iran, and in Saudi, and in Africa, just as it has worked so very well in all the Communist countries.

[Terrapin Station]

Yet the country is what gives and protects all free people's rights enough to choose which law to follow.

Which is completely irrelevant to the fact that religious folks feel their allegiance is to their god(s) above all else.

You do recognize, I hope, that we are talking of a genocidal slave wanting fascist god, Yahweh. Right?

Say what now?