What are the Benefits of Theism?

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Veritas Aequitas
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What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of a Supreme Being or deities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

It is very common knowledge that most theists will defend their theism like there is no tomorrow and some theists will even kill those who are perceived as a threat their belief in a God.

So what are the great benefits of theism to a theist or a group of theists that justify and drive some theists to the extreme of injuring and killing other humans?
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

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Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 am Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of a Supreme Being or deities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

It is very common knowledge that most theists will defend their theism like there is no tomorrow and some theists will even kill those who are perceived as a threat their belief in a God.
AND, it is VERY common knowledge that 'you' will defend YOUR BELIEFS like that is NO tomorrow. 'you' have proven that 'you will, literally, fight to death of and for your OWN BELIEFS.

So, 'you' are EXACTLY the SAME as "those" who you are 'trying to' RIDICULE and HUMILIATE here.

Which, by the way, is VERY entertaining and an HILARITY to WATCH and OBSERVE.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 am So what are the great benefits of theism to a theist or a group of theists that justify and drive some theists to the extreme of injuring and killing other humans?
Thee EXACT SAME "benefits" to 'you', which "justify" and drive 'you' to the EXTREME lengths that 'you' go to 'try to' "justify" your OWN BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS, about what is ACTUALLY true, right, AND correct.

'you' are NOTHING MORE than the EXACT SAME, but just with DIFFERENT and/or OPPOSING views/beliefs.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Terrapin Station »

For one, for many people it has psychological benefits. It helps them cope with many different things that they'd have difficulty coping with otherwise. It can provide a sense of order and purpose for those folks, something to "live for," etc.

There are also a lot of social benefits to it--it provides a focus for social interaction, helps build social cohesion, etc.

As we see when there's no focus on religion, people are no less likely to divide up into factions where they wind up demanding some degree of conformity and where they're ready to skewer the "Other"--unfortunately it's human nature to be like that. It's just that in the absence of religion, people wind up doing this based on political factions, or based on other ideologies, other arbitrary social customs, etc. So I don't think we can really blame religion for that sort of behavior. Religious ideology is just one way it winds up being expressed. It's not the cause of those attitudes, that behavior.
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:55 pm For one, for many people it has psychological benefits. It helps them cope with many different things that they'd have difficulty coping with otherwise. It can provide a sense of order and purpose for those folks, something to "live for," etc.

There are also a lot of social benefits to it--it provides a focus for social interaction, helps build social cohesion, etc.

As we see when there's no focus on religion, people are no less likely to divide up into factions where they wind up demanding some degree of conformity and where they're ready to skewer the "Other"--unfortunately it's human nature to be like that. It's just that in the absence of religion, people wind up doing this based on political factions, or based on other ideologies, other arbitrary social customs, etc. So I don't think we can really blame religion for that sort of behavior. Religious ideology is just one way it winds up being expressed. It's not the cause of those attitudes, that behavior.
Note: All sort [secular and religious] of evils and violence must be resolved. Since this is "Philosophy of Religion" the focus on on the evil and violence from theism.

I believe theism and theistic religions are a critical necessity for the majority up to the current phase [but not the future] of human evolution since there are no efficient alternatives.

Whilst theism and theistic religions has significant positive contributions [psychological and social] to the majority of humanity, they inevitably also has their terrible negative and evil manifestations.

The problem is, the current trend is such that the negatives potentials of theism is going to overtake whatever positives there are from theism.

To ensure we resolve the evil and violence from theism, humanity must analyze its proximate and ultimate root cause, i.e. why the majority clings to theism.

From my analysis, the factor with the greatest weightage of why the majority of people cling to theism is the psychological factor, i.e. relying on theism as a consonance to relieve the existential dissonance, angst, etc.

At present there are no effective alternatives to replace theism as a consonance to relieve the inherent unavoidable existential dissonance.
What is critical here is the majority of theists are ignorant they are suffering from an existential dissonance.

Thus to strive to eliminate the evil and violence arising theism and theistic religions, the following strategies need to be adopted,
  • 1. all theists must understand and realize the root cause of theism, i.e. the existential dissonance.

    2. humanity must strive to bring about practical and effective alternatives to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential dissonance.
If there are rational and fool proof alternatives to theism, with better choices people will not opt for theism to relieve the existential dissonance.
When the above is achieved, there will be no more theistic driven evil and violent acts, e.g. from some Muslims and other religious extremists who obey the commands of their God to commit terrible evils and violence.

Note, in the case of theistic driven evils, we need to get control theism as a whole. There cannot be half-measures. To resolve the problems fully we need to 'pull out the roots'.
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by attofishpi »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 am What are the Benefits of Theism?
Mate, mate...there is only 1 benefit:---- opportunity 4 more KNOW_LEDGE.


..like eating from the TREE (sap)
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Terrapin Station
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:51 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:55 pm For one, for many people it has psychological benefits. It helps them cope with many different things that they'd have difficulty coping with otherwise. It can provide a sense of order and purpose for those folks, something to "live for," etc.

There are also a lot of social benefits to it--it provides a focus for social interaction, helps build social cohesion, etc.

As we see when there's no focus on religion, people are no less likely to divide up into factions where they wind up demanding some degree of conformity and where they're ready to skewer the "Other"--unfortunately it's human nature to be like that. It's just that in the absence of religion, people wind up doing this based on political factions, or based on other ideologies, other arbitrary social customs, etc. So I don't think we can really blame religion for that sort of behavior. Religious ideology is just one way it winds up being expressed. It's not the cause of those attitudes, that behavior.
Note: All sort [secular and religious] of evils and violence must be resolved. Since this is "Philosophy of Religion" the focus on on the evil and violence from theism.

I believe theism and theistic religions are a critical necessity for the majority up to the current phase [but not the future] of human evolution since there are no efficient alternatives.

Whilst theism and theistic religions has significant positive contributions [psychological and social] to the majority of humanity, they inevitably also has their terrible negative and evil manifestations.

The problem is, the current trend is such that the negatives potentials of theism is going to overtake whatever positives there are from theism.

To ensure we resolve the evil and violence from theism, humanity must analyze its proximate and ultimate root cause, i.e. why the majority clings to theism.

From my analysis, the factor with the greatest weightage of why the majority of people cling to theism is the psychological factor, i.e. relying on theism as a consonance to relieve the existential dissonance, angst, etc.

At present there are no effective alternatives to replace theism as a consonance to relieve the inherent unavoidable existential dissonance.
What is critical here is the majority of theists are ignorant they are suffering from an existential dissonance.

Thus to strive to eliminate the evil and violence arising theism and theistic religions, the following strategies need to be adopted,
  • 1. all theists must understand and realize the root cause of theism, i.e. the existential dissonance.

    2. humanity must strive to bring about practical and effective alternatives to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential dissonance.
If there are rational and fool proof alternatives to theism, with better choices people will not opt for theism to relieve the existential dissonance.
When the above is achieved, there will be no more theistic driven evil and violent acts, e.g. from some Muslims and other religious extremists who obey the commands of their God to commit terrible evils and violence.

Note, in the case of theistic driven evils, we need to get control theism as a whole. There cannot be half-measures. To resolve the problems fully we need to 'pull out the roots'.
Per my comment, in my opinion what we need to work on is tolerance of difference and we need to diminish impulses requiring people to conform to various norms. We don't seem to be making any improvements in these regards, unfortunately. And I'm not sure how to even begin changing these traits. They seem pretty cemented into human nature.
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Belinda »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:55 pm For one, for many people it has psychological benefits. It helps them cope with many different things that they'd have difficulty coping with otherwise. It can provide a sense of order and purpose for those folks, something to "live for," etc.

There are also a lot of social benefits to it--it provides a focus for social interaction, helps build social cohesion, etc.

As we see when there's no focus on religion, people are no less likely to divide up into factions where they wind up demanding some degree of conformity and where they're ready to skewer the "Other"--unfortunately it's human nature to be like that. It's just that in the absence of religion, people wind up doing this based on political factions, or based on other ideologies, other arbitrary social customs, etc. So I don't think we can really blame religion for that sort of behavior. Religious ideology is just one way it winds up being expressed. It's not the cause of those attitudes, that behavior.
I agree except that religions are worse when they include supernatural authorisation. Religious organisations , like some secular organisations, have even been known to rule by terror.
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Skepdick »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 am Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of a Supreme Being or deities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

It is very common knowledge that most theists will defend their theism like there is no tomorrow and some theists will even kill those who are perceived as a threat their belief in a God.

So what are the great benefits of theism to a theist or a group of theists that justify and drive some theists to the extreme of injuring and killing other humans?
In the simplest language that you would understand....

There is no benefit from Theism like there is no benefit from Philosophy. In fact they are probably harmful and open to abuse by demagogues and other authority figures.
There is benefit from "Theism-proper" like there is benefit from "Philosophy-proper".

Because Theism-proper is the same thing as Philosophy-proper.

A system of thought which recognises moral choice.
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by jayjacobus »

Trying to understand spiritual experiences is more beneficial than accepting a particular religion (or God).

Humans are mind, body and soul. People cannot ignore their minds and bodies to purify their souls. To separate the soul from the mind and body is not feasible. People who purify their soul must be reasonable about what their soul needs in the the context of mind and body needs.

Theism has a benefit if it benefits the mind and soul. If it doesn't, the benefit is nil.
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Terrapin Station wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:52 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:51 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:55 pm For one, for many people it has psychological benefits. It helps them cope with many different things that they'd have difficulty coping with otherwise. It can provide a sense of order and purpose for those folks, something to "live for," etc.

There are also a lot of social benefits to it--it provides a focus for social interaction, helps build social cohesion, etc.

As we see when there's no focus on religion, people are no less likely to divide up into factions where they wind up demanding some degree of conformity and where they're ready to skewer the "Other"--unfortunately it's human nature to be like that. It's just that in the absence of religion, people wind up doing this based on political factions, or based on other ideologies, other arbitrary social customs, etc. So I don't think we can really blame religion for that sort of behavior. Religious ideology is just one way it winds up being expressed. It's not the cause of those attitudes, that behavior.
Note: All sort [secular and religious] of evils and violence must be resolved. Since this is "Philosophy of Religion" the focus on on the evil and violence from theism.

I believe theism and theistic religions are a critical necessity for the majority up to the current phase [but not the future] of human evolution since there are no efficient alternatives.

Whilst theism and theistic religions has significant positive contributions [psychological and social] to the majority of humanity, they inevitably also has their terrible negative and evil manifestations.

The problem is, the current trend is such that the negatives potentials of theism is going to overtake whatever positives there are from theism.

To ensure we resolve the evil and violence from theism, humanity must analyze its proximate and ultimate root cause, i.e. why the majority clings to theism.

From my analysis, the factor with the greatest weightage of why the majority of people cling to theism is the psychological factor, i.e. relying on theism as a consonance to relieve the existential dissonance, angst, etc.

At present there are no effective alternatives to replace theism as a consonance to relieve the inherent unavoidable existential dissonance.
What is critical here is the majority of theists are ignorant they are suffering from an existential dissonance.

Thus to strive to eliminate the evil and violence arising theism and theistic religions, the following strategies need to be adopted,
  • 1. all theists must understand and realize the root cause of theism, i.e. the existential dissonance.

    2. humanity must strive to bring about practical and effective alternatives to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential dissonance.
If there are rational and fool proof alternatives to theism, with better choices people will not opt for theism to relieve the existential dissonance.
When the above is achieved, there will be no more theistic driven evil and violent acts, e.g. from some Muslims and other religious extremists who obey the commands of their God to commit terrible evils and violence.

Note, in the case of theistic driven evils, we need to get control theism as a whole. There cannot be half-measures. To resolve the problems fully we need to 'pull out the roots'.
Per my comment, in my opinion what we need to work on is tolerance of difference and we need to diminish impulses requiring people to conform to various norms.
We don't seem to be making any improvements in these regards, unfortunately. And I'm not sure how to even begin changing these traits. They seem pretty cemented into human nature.
I don't think you understand how great is the primal forces of the existential dissonances inherent in ALL humans.

It is easy if we are considering improvements to the tolerances of difference within 100, 10,000, 100,000, 1 million or even 10 million people,
but the reality is we are dealing with 7+ billion of which 90% are problematic.

To deal effectively with any problem we must analyze and understand the roots of the problem and prevent the problem at its root level rather than fighting the symptoms, i.e. fire-fighting.

Thus it would not be effective to resolve a problem if you simply make wishes, like tolerance of differences, living in harmony, unity in diversity, etc.

The very terrible existential dissonance inherent in ALL humans is analogous to a parasite [in this case a neural algorithm] that is driving humans like zombies toward seeking consonance, where the majority end up with theism.
Those who do not cling to theism, many of them end up with pain killers, drugs, crimes, and other negative and evil acts.

Thus my point,
the critical benefit [>80%] of theism is as a consonance to relieve the terrible existential dissonance at the unconscious levels, thus it is psychological.

There are spiritual and psychological approaches that deal with the existential dissonance directly and psychologically and thus avoid the double-edged theism. Examples are Buddhism, existential psychology, and the likes.
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Skepdick wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:58 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 am Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of a Supreme Being or deities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

It is very common knowledge that most theists will defend their theism like there is no tomorrow and some theists will even kill those who are perceived as a threat their belief in a God.

So what are the great benefits of theism to a theist or a group of theists that justify and drive some theists to the extreme of injuring and killing other humans?
In the simplest language that you would understand....

There is no benefit from Theism like there is no benefit from Philosophy. In fact they are probably harmful and open to abuse by demagogues and other authority figures.
There is benefit from "Theism-proper" like there is benefit from "Philosophy-proper".

Because Theism-proper is the same thing as Philosophy-proper.

A system of thought which recognises moral choice.
Theism-proper cannot be the same thing as Philosophy-proper.

Note my thread on;
From 'No Man's Land' to 'La La Land'
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31341

Philosophy-proper ploughs the 'No Man's Land,'
while,
Theism-proper wallow in the illusions and fantasies of the 'La La Land'
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Skepdick »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:28 am Theism-proper cannot be the same thing as Philosophy-proper.

Note my thread on;
From 'No Man's Land' to 'La La Land'
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31341

Philosophy-proper ploughs the 'No Man's Land,'
while,
Theism-proper wallow in the illusions and fantasies of the 'La La Land'
It's the same La La Land.

Ineffability of Morality.

Theism-proper/Philosophy-proper/Science serves moral agents - it doesn't define morality.
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:24 am
To deal effectively with any problem we must analyze and understand the roots of the problem and prevent the problem at its root level rather than fighting the symptoms, i.e. fire-fighting.
Surely it has deep genetic roots via evolution. Many unusual things are dangerous for survival. Survival was boosted via cooperation with the same "social group"--tribe/clan/flock/pack/school/shrewdness/etc., where wariness of, territory protection from, etc. competing social groups was beneficial to one's own group. That's why this is so difficult to overcome now.
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Greatest I am »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 am Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of a Supreme Being or deities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

It is very common knowledge that most theists will defend their theism like there is no tomorrow and some theists will even kill those who are perceived as a threat their belief in a God.

So what are the great benefits of theism to a theist or a group of theists that justify and drive some theists to the extreme of injuring and killing other humans?
Stats show a higher happiness factor for those in religion/tribes.

This makes sense as we are tribal by nature and it seems normal to satisfy our selfish gene that craves the security of the tribe. Any tribe will do, even those tribes that basically force people to become sheeple, misogynous and homophobic.

All sheeple need do is hate all those the religion does and put aside tyhe moral thinking that shows they are unethical.

I decided long ago that I was not the type to swallow supernatural B S and an immoral creed just to feel good.

Regards
DL
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Greatest I am wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:53 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 am Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of a Supreme Being or deities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

It is very common knowledge that most theists will defend their theism like there is no tomorrow and some theists will even kill those who are perceived as a threat their belief in a God.

So what are the great benefits of theism to a theist or a group of theists that justify and drive some theists to the extreme of injuring and killing other humans?
Stats show a higher happiness factor for those in religion/tribes.

This makes sense as we are tribal by nature and it seems normal to satisfy our selfish gene that craves the security of the tribe. Any tribe will do, even those tribes that basically force people to become sheeple, misogynous and homophobic.

All sheeple need do is hate all those the religion does and put aside tyhe moral thinking that shows they are unethical.

I decided long ago that I was not the type to swallow supernatural B S and an immoral creed just to feel good.

Regards
DL
Re Pew;
Studies have often credited religion with making people healthier, happier and more engaged in their communities.

Actively religious people are more likely than their less-religious peers to describe themselves as “very happy” in about half of the countries surveyed.
Happiness is an emotion;
  • The term happiness is used in the context of mental or emotional states, including positive or pleasant emotions ranging from contentment to intense joy.[1] It is also used in the context of life satisfaction, subjective well-being, eudaimonia, flourishing and well-being.
Emotions are triggered by various stimuli.
What is critical with emotions is 'what are the stimuli that trigger the emotion of happiness.'
More importantly, these stimuli can arise from good and evil elements. As with good doers, evil doers may feel happy or pleasure when they commit evil acts when their pleasure and happiness emotional mechanisms are triggered.

Per studies, active theists on average may feel happier than others, but what is critical is 'what are the stimuli that trigger the state of happiness?

Note, one feature of the stimuli of happiness is 'contrast';
  • Possible limits on happiness
    Sigmund Freud said that all humans strive after happiness, but that the possibilities of achieving it are restricted because we "are so made that we can derive intense enjoyment only from a contrast and very little from the state of things.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness ... _happiness
The contrast that happened with theism is the difference between the terrible mental pains and suffering from the existential dissonance and being relieved from the it with theism as the consonance.
This contrast and relief is the stimuli that trigger the happiness emotion in theists.

Note,
  • Possible limits on happiness seeking
    Not all cultures seek to maximise happiness.
    A 2012 study found that psychological well-being was higher for people who experienced both positive and negative emotions
Theists will feel 'happy' since the terrible existential dissonance is suppressed but any threat to theism would trigger a sense of threat and thus evoke unhappiness - to the extent some theists will kill those who threaten their theism as a consonance.

I believe the seeking of equanimity is the better deal than happiness.
  • Equanimity (Latin: æquanimitas, having an even mind; aequus even; animus mind/soul) is a state of psychological stability and composure which is undisturbed by experience of or exposure to emotions, pain, or other phenomena that may cause others to lose the balance of their mind.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equanimity#
My point;
The primary and greatest benefits of theism is, it act as a very effective consonance to relieve the existential dissonance, secondarily, this contrast then trigger the emotion of happiness.
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