What are the Benefits of Theism?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:25 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:24 am
To deal effectively with any problem we must analyze and understand the roots of the problem and prevent the problem at its root level rather than fighting the symptoms, i.e. fire-fighting.
Surely it has deep genetic roots via evolution. Many unusual things are dangerous for survival. Survival was boosted via cooperation with the same "social group"--tribe/clan/flock/pack/school/shrewdness/etc., where wariness of, territory protection from, etc. competing social groups was beneficial to one's own group. That's why this is so difficult to overcome now.
But you missed my critical point via evolution and survival, i.e. the inherent existential dissonance.

My earlier point;

"I don't think you understand how great is the primal forces of the existential dissonances inherent in ALL humans."
jayjacobus
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by jayjacobus »

Humans are the only animal that have religions. Animals don’t know cause and effect but humans do. Yet the cause of rain, sun and other natural phenomena were mysteries to ancient people. So, they guessed that gods were the cause. What else could it be?

Belief in gods did not give ancient humans control over the physical world. Perhaps it had some nonphysical benefit regarding meaning or spirit. But that is not obvious.

Today, science overrides some beliefs but belief in god is firmly intrenched in society. There are still mysteries and god could be the cause. We don’t know and may never know. Humans’ search for knowledge and meaning will keep religion alive but changes in beliefs may become less complex.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

jayjacobus wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:22 am Humans are the only animal that have religions. Animals don’t know cause and effect but humans do. Yet the cause of rain, sun and other natural phenomena were mysteries to ancient people. So, they guessed that gods were the cause. What else could it be?

Belief in gods did not give ancient humans control over the physical world. Perhaps it had some nonphysical benefit regarding meaning or spirit. But that is not obvious.

Today, science overrides some beliefs but belief in god is firmly intrenched in society. There are still mysteries and god could be the cause. We don’t know and may never know. Humans’ search for knowledge and meaning will keep religion alive but changes in beliefs may become less complex.
Instead of searching outside of humans for answers, why not turn inward and asked what is going on inside the brain/mind of theists that drive them to cling to a God which in most cases is for the purpose of salvation.

Note Socrates' Know Thyself.
Belinda
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Belinda »

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Instead of searching outside of humans for answers, why not turn inward and asked what is going on inside the brain/mind of theists that drive them to cling to a God which in most cases is for the purpose of salvation.
That would be interesting psychologically and sociologically.However to claim the presenter of a proposition affects the truth of a proposition is ad hominem error.

Okay, I understand VA's main point :
God which in most cases is for the purpose of salvation.
I would need evidence of a very good statistical survey before I would accept "most cases". Salvation depends on guilt. It is useful for some bossy people to make others feel guilty as then the bossy person can instruct the guilty ones what to do to be 'saved from sins'. I fully expect VA will agree to the social control function of theism.

God belief also has the more positive effect of supernatural authority for a moral code . I note that political communism puts society in place of God for the purpose of authorising a moral code ; this resulted in Stalinism and rule by terror in China. Likewise God has been used to authenticate rule by terror as in the Crusades, persecution of Jews and Cathars, colonisation, and sectarian violence.

Among theisms Xianity has the permanent advantage that its main icon is the life and work of a man; God has thus become humanised and reasonable.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:20 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:25 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:24 am
To deal effectively with any problem we must analyze and understand the roots of the problem and prevent the problem at its root level rather than fighting the symptoms, i.e. fire-fighting.
Surely it has deep genetic roots via evolution. Many unusual things are dangerous for survival. Survival was boosted via cooperation with the same "social group"--tribe/clan/flock/pack/school/shrewdness/etc., where wariness of, territory protection from, etc. competing social groups was beneficial to one's own group. That's why this is so difficult to overcome now.
But you missed my critical point via evolution and survival, i.e. the inherent existential dissonance.

My earlier point;

"I don't think you understand how great is the primal forces of the existential dissonances inherent in ALL humans."
How does that "critical point" modify what I said above?
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Greatest I am
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Greatest I am »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:26 am
Greatest I am wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:53 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 am Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of a Supreme Being or deities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

It is very common knowledge that most theists will defend their theism like there is no tomorrow and some theists will even kill those who are perceived as a threat their belief in a God.

So what are the great benefits of theism to a theist or a group of theists that justify and drive some theists to the extreme of injuring and killing other humans?
Stats show a higher happiness factor for those in religion/tribes.

This makes sense as we are tribal by nature and it seems normal to satisfy our selfish gene that craves the security of the tribe. Any tribe will do, even those tribes that basically force people to become sheeple, misogynous and homophobic.

All sheeple need do is hate all those the religion does and put aside tyhe moral thinking that shows they are unethical.

I decided long ago that I was not the type to swallow supernatural B S and an immoral creed just to feel good.

Regards
DL
Re Pew;
Studies have often credited religion with making people healthier, happier and more engaged in their communities.

Actively religious people are more likely than their less-religious peers to describe themselves as “very happy” in about half of the countries surveyed.
Happiness is an emotion;
  • The term happiness is used in the context of mental or emotional states, including positive or pleasant emotions ranging from contentment to intense joy.[1] It is also used in the context of life satisfaction, subjective well-being, eudaimonia, flourishing and well-being.
Emotions are triggered by various stimuli.
What is critical with emotions is 'what are the stimuli that trigger the emotion of happiness.'
More importantly, these stimuli can arise from good and evil elements. As with good doers, evil doers may feel happy or pleasure when they commit evil acts when their pleasure and happiness emotional mechanisms are triggered.

Per studies, active theists on average may feel happier than others, but what is critical is 'what are the stimuli that trigger the state of happiness?

Note, one feature of the stimuli of happiness is 'contrast';
  • Possible limits on happiness
    Sigmund Freud said that all humans strive after happiness, but that the possibilities of achieving it are restricted because we "are so made that we can derive intense enjoyment only from a contrast and very little from the state of things.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness ... _happiness
The contrast that happened with theism is the difference between the terrible mental pains and suffering from the existential dissonance and being relieved from the it with theism as the consonance.
This contrast and relief is the stimuli that trigger the happiness emotion in theists.

Note,
  • Possible limits on happiness seeking
    Not all cultures seek to maximise happiness.
    A 2012 study found that psychological well-being was higher for people who experienced both positive and negative emotions
Theists will feel 'happy' since the terrible existential dissonance is suppressed but any threat to theism would trigger a sense of threat and thus evoke unhappiness - to the extent some theists will kill those who threaten their theism as a consonance.

I believe the seeking of equanimity is the better deal than happiness.
  • Equanimity (Latin: æquanimitas, having an even mind; aequus even; animus mind/soul) is a state of psychological stability and composure which is undisturbed by experience of or exposure to emotions, pain, or other phenomena that may cause others to lose the balance of their mind.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equanimity#
My point;
The primary and greatest benefits of theism is, it act as a very effective consonance to relieve the existential dissonance, secondarily, this contrast then trigger the emotion of happiness.
Self delusion, for sure, is the substrate for happiness.

Christmas without Santa would just not be the same happy time.

Regards
DL
jayjacobus
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by jayjacobus »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:05 am
jayjacobus wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:22 am Humans are the only animal that have religions. Animals don’t know cause and effect but humans do. Yet the cause of rain, sun and other natural phenomena were mysteries to ancient people. So, they guessed that gods were the cause. What else could it be?

Belief in gods did not give ancient humans control over the physical world. Perhaps it had some nonphysical benefit regarding meaning or spirit. But that is not obvious.

Today, science overrides some beliefs but belief in god is firmly intrenched in society. There are still mysteries and god could be the cause. We don’t know and may never know. Humans’ search for knowledge and meaning will keep religion alive but changes in beliefs may become less complex.
Instead of searching outside of humans for answers, why not turn inward and asked what is going on inside the brain/mind of theists that drive them to cling to a God which in most cases is for the purpose of salvation.

Note Socrates' Know Thyself.
You are the simplifier in chief. That is certainly a less complex religion.
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bahman
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by bahman »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:45 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 am What are the Benefits of Theism?
Mate, mate...there is only 1 benefit:---- opportunity 4 more KNOW_LEDGE.


..like eating from the TREE (sap)
Image
Have you eaten the apple?
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Terrapin Station wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:13 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:20 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:25 pm Surely it has deep genetic roots via evolution. Many unusual things are dangerous for survival. Survival was boosted via cooperation with the same "social group"--tribe/clan/flock/pack/school/shrewdness/etc., where wariness of, territory protection from, etc. competing social groups was beneficial to one's own group. That's why this is so difficult to overcome now.
But you missed my critical point via evolution and survival, i.e. the inherent existential dissonance.

My earlier point;

"I don't think you understand how great is the primal forces of the existential dissonances inherent in ALL humans."
How does that "critical point" modify what I said above?
There is a lot of differences in progress depending on whether you are dealing with merely the symptoms at the superficial levels or the proximate root causes.

My "critical point" involves dealing with the proximate causes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_cause_analysis

Note, ALL humans are "infected" with the inherent existential dissonance as an inevitable consequence of evolutionary progress to being-more-human for higher goods.

The non-theistic approaches like Buddhism and other related spiritual paths deal with the inherent existential dissonance directly at the proximate levels using practical psychological methods.

The majority of theists are ignorant of the existential dissonance and thus rely on the very effective idea of an illusory God [theism] as a consonance.

Theism is so prevalent because it is very effective [but rickety] in soothing the terrible existential dissonance, i.e. just believe in a God [even it is an illusion] via faith and viola! one is existentially comforted and saved.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:49 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:13 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:20 am
But you missed my critical point via evolution and survival, i.e. the inherent existential dissonance.

My earlier point;

"I don't think you understand how great is the primal forces of the existential dissonances inherent in ALL humans."
How does that "critical point" modify what I said above?
There is a lot of differences in progress depending on whether you are dealing with merely the symptoms at the superficial levels or the proximate root causes.

My "critical point" involves dealing with the proximate causes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_cause_analysis

Note, ALL humans are "infected" with the inherent existential dissonance as an inevitable consequence of evolutionary progress to being-more-human for higher goods.

The non-theistic approaches like Buddhism and other related spiritual paths deal with the inherent existential dissonance directly at the proximate levels using practical psychological methods.

The majority of theists are ignorant of the existential dissonance and thus rely on the very effective idea of an illusory God [theism] as a consonance.

Theism is so prevalent because it is very effective [but rickety] in soothing the terrible existential dissonance, i.e. just believe in a God [even it is an illusion] via faith and viola! one is existentially comforted and saved.
Say what?? I asked you: "How does that 'critical point' modify what I said above?" You're not listing even one thing I said and explaining how your "critical point" modifies it.
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Greatest I am
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Greatest I am »

jayjacobus wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:17 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:05 am
jayjacobus wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:22 am Humans are the only animal that have religions. Animals don’t know cause and effect but humans do. Yet the cause of rain, sun and other natural phenomena were mysteries to ancient people. So, they guessed that gods were the cause. What else could it be?

Belief in gods did not give ancient humans control over the physical world. Perhaps it had some nonphysical benefit regarding meaning or spirit. But that is not obvious.

Today, science overrides some beliefs but belief in god is firmly intrenched in society. There are still mysteries and god could be the cause. We don’t know and may never know. Humans’ search for knowledge and meaning will keep religion alive but changes in beliefs may become less complex.
Instead of searching outside of humans for answers, why not turn inward and asked what is going on inside the brain/mind of theists that drive them to cling to a God which in most cases is for the purpose of salvation.

Note Socrates' Know Thyself.
You are the simplifier in chief. That is certainly a less complex religion.
A lot more interesting also as it can explain reality better than the supernatural garbage.

What our friend describes is a version/resembles Gnostic Christianity. My 1st choice of religions and what I call myself.

Unlike 99% of people, I chose my religion while the rest just follow traditions.

Regards
DL
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:44 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:49 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:13 pm

How does that "critical point" modify what I said above?
There is a lot of differences in progress depending on whether you are dealing with merely the symptoms at the superficial levels or the proximate root causes.

My "critical point" involves dealing with the proximate causes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_cause_analysis

Note, ALL humans are "infected" with the inherent existential dissonance as an inevitable consequence of evolutionary progress to being-more-human for higher goods.

The non-theistic approaches like Buddhism and other related spiritual paths deal with the inherent existential dissonance directly at the proximate levels using practical psychological methods.

The majority of theists are ignorant of the existential dissonance and thus rely on the very effective idea of an illusory God [theism] as a consonance.

Theism is so prevalent because it is very effective [but rickety] in soothing the terrible existential dissonance, i.e. just believe in a God [even it is an illusion] via faith and viola! one is existentially comforted and saved.
Say what?? I asked you: "How does that 'critical point' modify what I said above?" You're not listing even one thing I said and explaining how your "critical point" modifies it.
I tried. If you think I missed it, you'll have to make your question as clear as possible.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:22 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:44 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:49 am
There is a lot of differences in progress depending on whether you are dealing with merely the symptoms at the superficial levels or the proximate root causes.

My "critical point" involves dealing with the proximate causes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_cause_analysis

Note, ALL humans are "infected" with the inherent existential dissonance as an inevitable consequence of evolutionary progress to being-more-human for higher goods.

The non-theistic approaches like Buddhism and other related spiritual paths deal with the inherent existential dissonance directly at the proximate levels using practical psychological methods.

The majority of theists are ignorant of the existential dissonance and thus rely on the very effective idea of an illusory God [theism] as a consonance.

Theism is so prevalent because it is very effective [but rickety] in soothing the terrible existential dissonance, i.e. just believe in a God [even it is an illusion] via faith and viola! one is existentially comforted and saved.
Say what?? I asked you: "How does that 'critical point' modify what I said above?" You're not listing even one thing I said and explaining how your "critical point" modifies it.
I tried. If you think I missed it, you'll have to make your question as clear as possible.
Quote things I said (in the particular, relevant passage) and then explain how your "critical point" would suggest modifications of what you're quoting by specifying the modifications.
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attofishpi
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by attofishpi »

bahman wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:34 am
attofishpi wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:45 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:24 am What are the Benefits of Theism?
Mate, mate...there is only 1 benefit:---- opportunity 4 more KNOW_LEDGE.


..like eating from the TREE (sap)
Image
Have you eaten the apple?
What "Apple" ?

It's DOWNright appallin that U think it was a measly apple. State where the fruit was an APPLE!

..if you were after a fruit - FIGurE it out.

btw:- Do they look like a pair of apples or a pair of pears?

https://www.androcies.com/galleryscroll.php
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bahman
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Re: What are the Benefits of Theism?

Post by bahman »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:45 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:34 am
attofishpi wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:45 am

Mate, mate...there is only 1 benefit:---- opportunity 4 more KNOW_LEDGE.


..like eating from the TREE (sap)
Image
Have you eaten the apple?
What "Apple" ?

It's DOWNright appallin that U think it was a measly apple. State where the fruit was an APPLE!

..if you were after a fruit - FIGurE it out.

btw:- Do they look like a pair of apples or a pair of pears?

https://www.androcies.com/galleryscroll.php
I just want to know.
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