Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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gaffo
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by gaffo »

smart post BTW.

DPMartin wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:37 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:19 am Does anyone here know the correct answer to this question?

Thoughts?
the "original sin" theology of Catholicism is one thing and and why man is born into the state of sin in the case of man and man's Creator might have differences.

first, what did God give man in His own likeness and image (note not getting religious on you just using references)

Luk 3:38  Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God

and that life Adam had before he ate of the tree is what Adam and Eve died from that day. and God left them with the life in the flesh dust to dust like any other flesh God created.

thing is God gave man His place in the earth, to execute God's Judgements according to God. and Adam went with his own judgement and died of the Life God gave man originally. because God's Judgement is Life any other is not. Adam and or Eve trusted and or believed something other then the Word of God which is the Truth, meaning the Word of God is the Truth. hence faith where does one place their faith.


you or Luke confused? the ToK was not the ToL/

YHWH removed the latter and why man dies like all other animals/plants/

no other animal outside of man "sinned" - i.e. the rest of the animals never ate from the ToK - and yets still die. animals are affirmed as sinless, yet they dies like man.

and since man dies like animals - neather having ten from teh Tree of Life - and only man eting from the Three of knowledge - death is not tied to the eating fro teh Tok - since animals never ate from it and though without sin, still die - they like you and me die because we never ate from the Tree of life. - the other tre in the garden of eden.


DPMartin wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:37 pm
so after God let man live the life of the flesh we receive that same life that was to be with God but now is separate from God's Presence. and the NT is about the restoration of that life man originally had. one of the writers refers to Jesus as the second Adam for example. so the original sin is simply a state of man's separation from God's Presence, actually for man's sake.

anyway, you receive the life your fathers had when you come into the world.
yes per Genesis man after eating of one of the two - became separated from God (AND the animals) - and that corruption changed the animals somehow - where carniforse were born - prior the lion eat strwqw and slpt with the lambs.

in othrwords man was changed from being just another animal and communing with them, to becoming separate and in a way both masters over the animlas and in war with.

i.e. eating meat - carnivore - man and some animals changed via the "Fall" of amn, prior all were vegitarians.

-------------

I'm an athiest - though have knowledge of religion - and my take is accurate oon the issue


good post Sir.
gaffo
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by gaffo »

Dontaskme wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:08 am
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:32 pm
I like that I am separate from the genocidal satanic Christian god.

The closer one get to Yahweh, the closer on gets to Satan. Not that she is real and given the bibles descriptions, she is less of a mass murderer than Yahweh.

Regards
DL
Satan the fallen angel from heaven said I'd rather rule on earth than in heaven with you Father. So the Father said, go on then, and see how that work works out for you. Father already knew Satan would return to heaven, because Satan was God on earth through Jesus Christ.
''Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.'' Matthew 6:10

_
.

Which Satan?

in the OT Satan serves YHWH as procecuting attorny - "do you have faith in God? - I'll test it) - refer to Zacharaih and Job.


New Testement rewrot Satan to not the tester of man's faith in God - to an enemy of both God and man.



so two satans.

whichi s the rral satan? servant of god or repprobate?


-----as an atheist with historica knowledge ot dogma and how it changes - i have no need to force a fit where there is none - thier are two satans.

the latter enemy of god and man is Ahraman - from the persians - imported inot latter judaism and christianinty.


just ssayin, satan in the OT serves god even though a dick sometimes.

in the NT he is still a dick but no longer serves god.
Age
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Age »

What does the word 'sin' even mean to the people here in this thread?

Discover and/or learn, and understand, what the word 'sin' ACTUALLY refers to, then the answer to the question, 'Who is responsible for the original sin?' can become known, agreed upon, and accepted.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:12 am What does the word 'sin' even mean to the people here in this thread?

Discover and/or learn, and understand, what the word 'sin' ACTUALLY refers to, then the answer to the question, 'Who is responsible for the original sin?' can become known, agreed upon, and accepted.
Sin means being judgmental of others....passing the blame, shame, claim, onto others, because humans are cowards and incapable of facing their true self.


Only those who are faultless have the right to pass judgment upon others (implying that no one is faultless and that, therefore, no one has such a right to pass judgment).

The judgment day is always now, instant karma.

When ever you hurt others, you are only hurting yourself. And it is because you are aware of your own feelings, then so too are you aware that others also feel what you feel too. All sentient creatures with a nervous system experience BAD feelings and sensations. It's called pain.
Age
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:48 am
Age wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:12 am What does the word 'sin' even mean to the people here in this thread?

Discover and/or learn, and understand, what the word 'sin' ACTUALLY refers to, then the answer to the question, 'Who is responsible for the original sin?' can become known, agreed upon, and accepted.
Sin means being judgmental of others....passing the blame, shame, claim, onto others, because humans are cowards and incapable of facing their true self.


Only those who are faultless have the right to pass judgment upon others (implying that no one is faultless and that, therefore, no one has such a right to pass judgment).
But when one is faultless, then they do NOT pass judgment. This is because passing judgment is a flaw, or fault.

Also, when one has gained FULL and True UNDERSTANDING, then they do NOT pass judgment. This is because they ALREADY KNOW WHY EVERY one thinks, and does, what they do.
Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:11 am The judgment day is always now, instant karma.
This is True. Judging what one's 'self' is thinking and doing ALWAYS NOW could be EXACTLY what 'judgment day' refers to.
Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:11 am When ever you hurt others, you are only hurting yourself.
This is also true. This is because of what thee True Self ACTUALLY IS.
Scott Mayers wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:11 am And it is because you are aware of your own feelings, then so too are you aware that others also feel what you feel too. All sentient creatures with a nervous system experience BAD feelings and sensations. It's called pain.
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Sculptor
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Sculptor »

gaffo wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:15 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:12 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:40 pm

Sculptor... I believe it's true, and what I believe becomes true for me, so yeah, I believe. It's a vibrant feeling when I believe in Gods word.
I'm not scared of dying, because I understand / know God.
What a fuckwit.
why be a dick Donseke posted his view and did not insult you.

you had no call to insult him.
My pov is not worthy of insult his is.
DPMartin
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by DPMartin »

gaffo wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:50 am smart post BTW.

DPMartin wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:37 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:19 am Does anyone here know the correct answer to this question?

Thoughts?
the "original sin" theology of Catholicism is one thing and and why man is born into the state of sin in the case of man and man's Creator might have differences.

first, what did God give man in His own likeness and image (note not getting religious on you just using references)

Luk 3:38  Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God

and that life Adam had before he ate of the tree is what Adam and Eve died from that day. and God left them with the life in the flesh dust to dust like any other flesh God created.

thing is God gave man His place in the earth, to execute God's Judgements according to God. and Adam went with his own judgement and died of the Life God gave man originally. because God's Judgement is Life any other is not. Adam and or Eve trusted and or believed something other then the Word of God which is the Truth, meaning the Word of God is the Truth. hence faith where does one place their faith.


you or Luke confused? the ToK was not the ToL/

YHWH removed the latter and why man dies like all other animals/plants/

no other animal outside of man "sinned" - i.e. the rest of the animals never ate from the ToK - and yets still die. animals are affirmed as sinless, yet they dies like man.

and since man dies like animals - neather having ten from teh Tree of Life - and only man eting from the Three of knowledge - death is not tied to the eating fro teh Tok - since animals never ate from it and though without sin, still die - they like you and me die because we never ate from the Tree of life. - the other tre in the garden of eden.


DPMartin wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:37 pm
so after God let man live the life of the flesh we receive that same life that was to be with God but now is separate from God's Presence. and the NT is about the restoration of that life man originally had. one of the writers refers to Jesus as the second Adam for example. so the original sin is simply a state of man's separation from God's Presence, actually for man's sake.

anyway, you receive the life your fathers had when you come into the world.
yes per Genesis man after eating of one of the two - became separated from God (AND the animals) - and that corruption changed the animals somehow - where carniforse were born - prior the lion eat strwqw and slpt with the lambs.

in othrwords man was changed from being just another animal and communing with them, to becoming separate and in a way both masters over the animlas and in war with.

i.e. eating meat - carnivore - man and some animals changed via the "Fall" of amn, prior all were vegitarians.

-------------

I'm an athiest - though have knowledge of religion - and my take is accurate oon the issue


good post Sir.
see, if you're talking biblically of which I presume you are, you may have missed something here. I said "and that life Adam had before he ate of the tree is what Adam and Eve died from that day. and God left them with the life in the flesh dust to dust like any other flesh God created."
so men live in sin because of the covenant the Lord God made with Adam. God made the man then the garden and then put the man in the garden and told the man the conditions thereof. this is the life God gave man in that man has to be in an agreement (covenant) with God in God's creation. the animals are not required to be in covenant with God and are free to be and do without guilt or offence. so man being left with the life of the flesh, as animals have, losing the Life God originally gave man still are under covenant. the Lord God never brakes covenant another part of the place God gave man in the earth. It was ether removing Adam and Eve from His creation and making a new man, or having mercy and permitting man and the sons of man to continue in separation from God's Presence until the new Adam (Christ) came into the world via a son of man, that the faithful sons of man to the covenant may be restored to the Life God originally gave A&E.


also your vegetarian comment is inaccurate vegetarian was the basic provision with A&E and the children thereof is true, but the Lord God made a new covenant with Noah and his children meaning all of us, that men could eat flesh, but flesh without the blood therein. so burgers and stakes have no religious or social or biblical guilt.



anyway in other words the life you received when coming into the world, is supposed to be in covenant with the Lord God.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Dontaskme »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:28 pm
gaffo wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:15 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:12 pm

What a fuckwit.
why be a dick Donseke posted his view and did not insult you.

you had no call to insult him.
My pov is not worthy of insult his is.
Why is saying I understand a word's meaning make you call me a fuckwit?

I can understand your frustration when I said it's god's word.

But that's what the belief is, the belief is that the word is god's word. I believe what the words mean.

Perhaps you don't like the word god, so that's fine.

Words like god can mean so many different things to different people. For example, the word god is just another word for nothing in my mind. But sometimes I just use the word god instead of the word nothing.

Words can make you have a vibrant feeling, like when someone tells you that they love you. You see what I mean?
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Dontaskme
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Dontaskme »

gaffo wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:02 am


Which Satan?
The invisible one. The one that can't be seen but is known.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Greatest I am »

Age wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:12 am What does the word 'sin' even mean to the people here in this thread?

Discover and/or learn, and understand, what the word 'sin' ACTUALLY refers to, then the answer to the question, 'Who is responsible for the original sin?' can become known, agreed upon, and accepted.
Agreed upon??

Not likely.

Want to have a go to see if we can agree?

Was there even a sin?

Would you think your children sinned if they chose an education over being intellectually and morally as bright as a brick, with, as scriptures say, their eyes closed.

I think they, and consequently all of us, were unjustly condemned.

That is why the Jews see an elevation of man and not a fall.

Regards
DL
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Greatest I am »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:48 am
Only those who are faultless have the right to pass judgment upon others (implying that no one is faultless and that, therefore, no one has such a right to pass judgment).

The judgment day is always now, instant karma.
Karma is victim blaming to the astute.

As to judging/testing concepts.

You judge many concepts daily so to say and to tell people not to judge is to say, if they are doping the wrong things, to ignore and not judge themselves.

Gen3;22 Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Those who do not judge or test concepts for their moral worth, are not moral. How can they be when they have not judged the moral tenets.

If you do not judge, how can you know good from evil?

Regards
DL
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Sculptor
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Sculptor »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:17 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:28 pm
gaffo wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:15 am

why be a dick Donseke posted his view and did not insult you.

you had no call to insult him.
My pov is not worthy of insult his is.
Why is saying I understand a word's meaning make you call me a fuckwit?
Belief is the death of reason.
It's what people do when they are scared of the truth.

I can understand your frustration when I said it's god's word.
You have zero reason to think that way. It's pathetic. Through sheer ignorance you even pretend to know the word of god. In this you combine utter ignorance with utter arrogance.

But that's what the belief is, the belief is that the word is god's word. I believe what the words mean.
What you believe is of no importance.

Perhaps you don't like the word god, so that's fine.
So you think you have a hot line to god?
That is megalomania.

Words like god can mean so many different things to different people. For example, the word god is just another word for nothing in my mind. But sometimes I just use the word god instead of the word nothing.

Words can make you have a vibrant feeling, like when someone tells you that they love you. You see what I mean?
Get a grip!
You are just fooling yourself.
Age
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Age »

Greatest I am wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:01 pm
Age wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:12 am What does the word 'sin' even mean to the people here in this thread?

Discover and/or learn, and understand, what the word 'sin' ACTUALLY refers to, then the answer to the question, 'Who is responsible for the original sin?' can become known, agreed upon, and accepted.
Agreed upon??

Not likely.
Would you like to become a bit MORE OPEN?
Greatest I am wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:01 pm Want to have a go to see if we can agree?
When I say, 'agree upon', WHY do you ASSUME what I mean, and jump to a CONCLUSION, BEFORE you ask for CLARIFICATION?

What I mean when I say, 'agreed upon, will most likely be NOT what you are thinking or believing here now, ANYWAY.

By the way, I would LOVE to 'have a go'. But, from the way you write, it appears that you have ALREADY CONCLUDED what the outcome WILL BE, correct?

Greatest I am wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:01 pm Was there even a sin?
As I asked earlier, what does the word 'sin' even mean, to 'you'?
Greatest I am wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:01 pm Would you think your children sinned if they chose an education over being intellectually and morally as bright as a brick, with, as scriptures say, their eyes closed.

I think they, and consequently all of us, were unjustly condemned.

That is why the Jews see an elevation of man and not a fall.

Regards
DL
And, to 'me', ALL of this WRONG 'interpreting' is WHY 'you', human beings, in the days of when this is being written, are still SO LOST, CONFUSED, in DISAGREEMENT, and thus in CONFLICT with one another.

I suggest seeking CLARIFICATION FIRST, 'wide-eyed' and thus OPEN, instead of just BELIEVING, 'eyes-shut' and thus CLOSED, that you ALREADY KNOW what 'I' and "others" mean in what we say and write.
Age
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Age »

Greatest I am wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:07 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:48 am
Only those who are faultless have the right to pass judgment upon others (implying that no one is faultless and that, therefore, no one has such a right to pass judgment).

The judgment day is always now, instant karma.
Karma is victim blaming to the astute.

As to judging/testing concepts.

You judge many concepts daily so to say and to tell people not to judge is to say, if they are doping the wrong things, to ignore and not judge themselves.

Gen3;22 Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Those who do not judge or test concepts for their moral worth, are not moral. How can they be when they have not judged the moral tenets.

If you do not judge, how can you know good from evil?

Regards
DL
But what is Right and what is Wrong is ALREADY KNOWN, just still unconsciously to 'you', adult human beings. So, NO 'testing', nor judging of "others", is 'needed'. Just LOOK within OPENLY and Honestly, with a serious Want to change, then 'you' will be able to SEE, and thus KNOW, FOR SURE, what is ACTUALLY Right and Wrong in Life.

By the way, what could 'you', a single, individual human being, be able to 'judge' on or against, EXACTLY and ACCURATELY? Your OWN adult 'thinking' and 'thoughts' have been PROVEN ABSOLUTELY to NOT be worthy of 'judging' against. This OBVIOUSLY goes for ALL of 'you', individual adult human beings.
Last edited by Age on Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Age
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Re: Who was responsible for the original sin ?

Post by Age »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:56 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:17 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:28 pm
My pov is not worthy of insult his is.
Why is saying I understand a word's meaning make you call me a fuckwit?
Belief is the death of reason.
It's what people do when they are scared of the truth.
And your BELIEF "sculptor" that God does NOT exist, is a PRIME EXAMPLE of one who is SCARED and ABSOLUTELY PETRIFIED of thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things'.
Sculptor wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:56 pm

I can understand your frustration when I said it's god's word.
You have zero reason to think that way. It's pathetic. Through sheer ignorance you even pretend to know the word of god. In this you combine utter ignorance with utter arrogance.

But that's what the belief is, the belief is that the word is god's word. I believe what the words mean.
What you believe is of no importance.

Perhaps you don't like the word god, so that's fine.
So you think you have a hot line to god?
That is megalomania.

Words like god can mean so many different things to different people. For example, the word god is just another word for nothing in my mind. But sometimes I just use the word god instead of the word nothing.

Words can make you have a vibrant feeling, like when someone tells you that they love you. You see what I mean?
Get a grip!
You are just fooling yourself.
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