Why should we be blamed?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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bahman
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Re: Why should we be blamed?

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Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:40 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:36 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:33 pm
Yes it does.
So it is you who make things to happen.
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:33 pm In the sense of I am not living, I am being lived. :idea:
What do you mean?
There is no you making you happen, there's just happening as and through what is experienced as a you. :idea: But I'm not entirely sure.
If it so then why there is such a fantastic correlation between the experience, decision, and causation? The correlation is due to the existence of very you.
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bahman
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Re: Why should we be blamed?

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Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:42 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:27 pm
Therefore God should know the future in order to sustain things.
If God knew the future then why would God bother putting the free will idea into it's creation, knowing that free will could change God's will at any time.
Free-agent cannot be created, I have an argument for that.
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:42 pm So God can't be all knowing, or know what's going to happen before it happens. The free will concept wouldn't make sense.
Do you think that you are free?
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bahman
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Re: Why should we be blamed?

Post by bahman »

Hermit Philosopher wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:05 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:27 pm
Hermit Philosopher wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:20 pm


An omniscient God, yes, many religions believe in this.

Bear in mind however, that those who also ascribe omnipresence to God may not consider time (i.e. the “future” that you mentioned above) to be something that exists, except for in the human mind. And, if it does not exist, would a real God need to know of it...?


Humbly
Hermit
Catholics for example think that God not only creates things but also sustains them (things cannot simply be existence since otherwise, they are God). Things however on the motion. Therefore God should know the future in order to sustain things.

The funny thing is, that if you require that the problem presented in OP only be answered from one particular view of God (e.g. the one you’ve given here above) and your last question is “ how God could be highest [...?] if He does not know the future?” then, can there be other reasonings that your own...?
They argue that God is good, the knowledge of the future is good, therefore God knows the future.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why should we be blamed?

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:21 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:40 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:36 pm
So it is you who make things to happen.


What do you mean?
There is no you making you happen, there's just happening as and through what is experienced as a you. :idea: But I'm not entirely sure.
If it so then why there is such a fantastic correlation between the experience, decision, and causation? The correlation is due to the existence of very you.
There is a you, but this you has no knowledge of it's creator. Any idea of a creator is a mental construct happening here, but there is no knowledge of how here happens, just that it is.

It's not known how anything came into being. So to say God did it is wrong.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why should we be blamed?

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:31 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:42 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:27 pm
Therefore God should know the future in order to sustain things.
If God knew the future then why would God bother putting the free will idea into it's creation, knowing that free will could change God's will at any time.
Free-agent cannot be created, I have an argument for that.
To create a some thing one will need materials to make a model from. So the idea that things are created is a myth, because the materials that appear as a model must have already and always existed. And that which has always existed could not have been created. So the idea there are ''Many of the One'' are just appearances of the same materials that have always and already existed. So the models will be just illusory representations of what already exists. Or we could use another word for materials that have always existed, and call that energy instead.

bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:31 pm Do you think that you are free?
There is no I that is free. I lives in the world of limitation (the thought sphere) So the word free can only have meaning in association with being bound, so no, I which is just another thought for you, is not free. If 'you' were free, you would be able to choose to be born or not.

Once born though, there is the illusion of being free, but it's an illusory sense of freedom, in truth nothing is ever free because nothing is bound. Nothing is being born and nothing is dying.

I does not make life happen. I is being lived. I is a thought. I does not make thoughts happen, thought makes I happen.

I'm speaking in nondual speak now so sorry if it's hard to follow.
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bahman
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Re: Why should we be blamed?

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:33 am
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:21 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:40 pm

There is no you making you happen, there's just happening as and through what is experienced as a you. :idea: But I'm not entirely sure.
If it so then why there is such a fantastic correlation between the experience, decision, and causation? The correlation is due to the existence of very you.
There is a you, but this you has no knowledge of it's creator. Any idea of a creator is a mental construct happening here, but there is no knowledge of how here happens, just that it is.

It's not known how anything came into being. So to say God did it is wrong.
I know but I am not discussing the conception of God but you.
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bahman
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Re: Why should we be blamed?

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:59 am
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:31 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:42 pm
If God knew the future then why would God bother putting the free will idea into it's creation, knowing that free will could change God's will at any time.
Free-agent cannot be created, I have an argument for that.
To create a some thing one will need materials to make a model from. So the idea that things are created is a myth, because the materials that appear as a model must have already and always existed. And that which has always existed could not have been created. So the idea there are ''Many of the One'' are just appearances of the same materials that have always and already existed. So the models will be just illusory representations of what already exists. Or we could use another word for materials that have always existed, and call that energy instead.
But there was a beginning. I have an argument for it here.
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:59 am
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:31 pm Do you think that you are free?
There is no I that is free. I lives in the world of limitation (the thought sphere) So the word free can only have meaning in association with being bound, so no, I which is just another thought for you, is not free. If 'you' were free, you would be able to choose to be born or not.

Once born though, there is the illusion of being free, but it's an illusory sense of freedom, in truth nothing is ever free because nothing is bound. Nothing is being born and nothing is dying.

I does not make life happen. I is being lived. I is a thought. I does not make thoughts happen, thought makes I happen.

I'm speaking in nondual speak now so sorry if it's hard to follow.
I am not speaking of freedom of will but free will. You are talking about freedom of will. By free will I mean that an agent has ability to unconditionally choose one option among at least two options.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why should we be blamed?

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:47 pm
But there was a beginning. I have an argument for it here.


I am not speaking of freedom of will but free will. You are talking about freedom of will. By free will I mean that an agent has ability to unconditionally choose one option among at least two options.
Okay bahman.

I don't believe there is an agency who has free will, except as an illusory idea, so there is nothing more I can discuss with you on the matter. So I'll leave you to continue.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why should we be blamed?

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:40 pm I know but I am not discussing the conception of God but you.
Okay bahman.
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