Putting ''Immanuel Can'' In The Religious Spotlight.

[Dontaskme]

I'm only speaking in your terms. You were asking if the accounts of Jesus Christ were just "stories about another human being."

But I never ever said or implied that ... Jesus Christ were just "stories about another human being."

Why are you putting words in my mouth that I did not say?

[Dontaskme]

I'm only speaking in your terms. You were asking if the accounts of Jesus Christ were just "stories about another human being." And I was pointing out that that is far from the only possible conclusion: one could equally say they are histories of a real Human Being, and of the real experiences real people had with Him.

I leave it to your choice which you believe they are. My choice has already been stated.

and your choice is that you believe that Jesus the man is the image of God.

So in your account God is dead...is that right IC ?

You're being facetious now, of course.

No I am not, again you make presumptions, all of which are your own erroneous beliefs about what is happening here in this discussion. I'm simply a truth seeker just like you. But unlike you, I don't believe in fictional stories, I deal in realtime actual facts that I can physically see as evidence with my own eyes.

[Immanuel Can]

I'm only speaking in your terms. You were asking if the accounts of Jesus Christ were just "stories about another human being."

But I never ever said or implied that ... Jesus Christ were just "stories about another human being."

Perhaps I misunderstood. So I'll ask the question instead: do you believe Jesus Christ is history or fiction?

[Dontaskme]

I'm only speaking in your terms. You were asking if the accounts of Jesus Christ were just "stories about another human being."

But I never ever said or implied that ... Jesus Christ were just "stories about another human being."

Perhaps I misunderstood. So I'll ask the question instead: do you believe Jesus Christ is history or fiction?

I don't know who he is, or whether he is real, all I know is the story I've heard about the character. If he is real, which I do not know because I haven't personally seen him with my own eyes, then according to your belief, he is the image of God, which means God is dead.

Because it's common knowledge that human beings die...we can witness they stop breathing when they die, we don't need an invisible to inform us of this self evident fact. We can know it ourselves by just observing the human organism. One minute it's alive, and the next minute it's not.

[Immanuel Can]

I deal in realtime actual facts that I can physically see as evidence with my own eyes.

That will work very well for anything that occurs a) actually during your lifetime, during the years you are aware enough to register it, b) for things that happen in your physical presence, and which you happen to notice, and c) on the presumption you cannot be errant or fooled by anything. It will not work so well for the many, many things that have already happened in this world, or happen just outside of your immediate presence, or which happen but you do not notice, or if anything is capable of deceiving or misleading you.

So your sphere of things you can trust anymore is becoming extremely narrow and small, if you insist on that metric. You can, but it won't necessarily let you do much in this world.

[Immanuel Can]

...according to your belief, he is the image of God, which means God is dead.

Non sequitur. You're going to have to explain how that follows.

Because it's common knowledge that human beings die...

As indeed did Christ, for three days. But as a Christian, I believe in the Resurrection:

"So having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now proclaiming to mankind that all people everywhere are to repent, because He has set a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people by raising Him from the dead.” (Acts 17:30-31)

[Dontaskme]

I deal in realtime actual facts that I can physically see as evidence with my own eyes.

That will work very well for anything that occurs a) actually during your lifetime, during the years you are aware enough to register it, b) for things that happen in your physical presence, and which you happen to notice, and c) on the presumption you cannot be errant or fooled by anything. It will not work so well for the many, many things that have already happened in this world, or happen just outside of your immediate presence, or which happen but you do not notice, or if anything is capable of deceiving or misleading you.

So your sphere of things you can trust anymore is becoming extremely narrow and small, if you insist on that metric. You can, but it won't necessarily let you do much in this world.

Lets keep this really simple.

You are the one IC ..the wo/man who is suggesting that the image of God looks like Jesus Christ the man, the human, the evolved primate or whatever...the evolved piece of green slime.

Now it's not imagined that creatures die, and that they are born rearrangements of all the materials of the dead creatures. So are you saying that is what God is?

[Immanuel Can]

Now it's not imagined that creatures die, and that they are born rearrangements of all the materials of the dead creatures. So are you saying that is what God is?

I have no idea what this sentence is even supposed to imply. It's rather convoluted and indirect, at best. And it's in passive voice, so doesn't even tell us who is doing the "imagining" of which you speak. I have no idea where your "dead creatures" that "rearrange" come from. And I have no idea how you're logically connecting any of that to God.

Sorry. You're going to have to "keep this simple," as you suggested.

[Dontaskme]

I believe in the Resurrection:

You can know other people are being born when you die as a human.

But you cannot know that the you that dies has an eternal life. Eternal in the context you are putting it in just means, the eternal nature of the materials used to build sentient creatures.

Leaves die, deposit their temporal transient existence into a compost below which is used as fodder for the next leaf, and the cycle of the leaf continues on and on. This is self evident as witnessed.

But to state what can be witnessed and known to exist is an eternal event.. is just an unfounded belief with no evidence, how can a temporal witness possibly know eternity IC ? ...that's just crazy thinking, and horrific if true, I mean who the heck in their sane mind would want to live eternally.

[Dontaskme]

Now it's not imagined that creatures die, and that they are born rearrangements of all the materials of the dead creatures. So are you saying that is what God is?

I have no idea what this sentence is even supposed to imply. It's rather convoluted and indirect, at best. And it's in passive voice, so doesn't even tell us who is doing the "imagining" of which you speak. I have no idea where your "dead creatures" that "rearrange" come from. And I have no idea how you're logically connecting any of that to God.

Sorry. You're going to have to "keep this simple," as you suggested.

It's your resurrection idea explained by me.

Why don't you explain how God who's image looks like a man has eternal life?

[Dontaskme]

" Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

IC... Jesus was an immaculate conception, he is the son of a barren woman.

Man is a bastard, man is an only child. There's no one going to save him from his oneness condition.

Please get over this repeated over and over and over again bullshit and accept the truth that is so blindingly obvious to any one with an ounce of intelligence.

Life does not care about you, only you care, only you can save yourself from the suffering of a non-caring cold unintelligent stupid dumb universe. If you know you are alive, then only you the knower can end the life you know.

Dinosaurs roamed the earth for 165 million years knowing jack crap about anything. Where was God's invisible knowledge for those 165 million years? did God just suddenly decide dinosaurs were useless junk creatures ? so he sent a rock and made them all vanish just so you could strut your stuff on centre stage?

Nice one.

[Dontaskme]

Immanuel Can . . please CAN you explain how IS IT that God exists in your own words only.

I do NOT want to hear quotes from other peoples words, for example the words that are written in the bible. Or did you Immanuel Can personally write the BIBLE?

If no, then lets hear your own account of why you believe God exists.

How about you that goes by the name of Immanuel Can tell in YOUR OWN WORDS what is meant by God? and perhaps you can show an image of God while you are at it.

If you can't come up with the evidence, it's ok, no one here will judge you, you will just become another insignificant fable story teller like every other human that ever walked the face of the earth.

Looking forward to your personal unique never before written story. Thanks in advance.

He has proven that he is not interested in requests for proof on this issue. I suspect he understands potentially the reasoning against it but is contentious of the emotional reflection involved to the core of himself. I have run into this too often and it doesn't go anywhere as it can make those with such strong convictions self-destruct and potentially lash out on others.

I agree Scott, thank you for your participation on this sensitive and delicate issue of God's image.

He hints at the argument of "First Cause". The normal counter agument is to ask where God came from then. Note that this also relates to the physics questions on the Big Bang for example. So it is not out of necessary lack of intelligence but of things like pride and emotional concerns with things like morality. Perhaps he needs space to breathe?

Thanks for the support in this contentious issue. Much appreciated.

He'll be back to defend his imaginary character, he won't be able to let that contentious con artist die.

[Dontaskme]

Immanuel Can

Do you know what the following words mean?

''The wild geese do not intend to cast their reflection; The water has no mind to retain their image.''

And do you understand what the implications are for the understander of the understanding of what those words mean?

[Scott Mayers]

Thanks for the support in this contentious issue. Much appreciated.

He'll be back to defend his imaginary character, he won't be able to let that contentious con artist die.

Yes, I'm sure he will.

I think one factor that might help to discuss this topic is how to relieve the fears we (humans in general) have for things that tend to be or become relatively nihilistic in the minds of many, regardless of what people believe, religious or not. Veritas on this site is one who is arguing for morality without God, as one example way to try overcoming the moral questions. I thought of some things with respect to the fear of death question but have not raised it on this site. (I think?) Those are two main issues of most significance that if solved, could go a long way in permitting people to place religion aside.

As less significant but still important factor after those main two is to figure out is to how to refer to people's traditions and cultures that can be respected without offending ones' emotional psyche.

One major issue that directly or indirectly affects how people become more or less religious is also their very real economic differences. Because this is in the domain of politics, religion gets used to justify one's biases for one political view over another. So the biggest way to help relieve the minds of everyone is to find some ideal or better way to both provide sufficient minimal needs while finding a coinciding means to assure we can compete in a way that advances our world without the greed factor taking over. Evolution is at fault because living things require many of the contradictory things that prevent everyone to universally be prosperous. It's quite paradoxical.

[henry quirk]

hey, deists (like me) don't get nearly the same level of shit thrown our way...the theists get all the grief

I demand equal abuse