The Problem of Evil

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Veritas Aequitas
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The Problem of Evil

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

The "Problem of Evil" has been claimed by many non-theists [atheists] to be the 'silver bullet' against the theists' claim God exists.

Over the years, theists had offered loads of defense against the Problem of Evil and all had failed.

What is the latest and strongest defense from theists [with references and links] to counter against the Problem of Evil.
surreptitious57
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by surreptitious57 »

Human beings can choose to do or not do evil because they have the freedom make both moral and immoral choices
This freedom exists whether or not there is a God and so in that respect it makes absolutely no difference either way
Age
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by Age »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:04 am The "Problem of Evil" has been claimed by many non-theists [atheists] to be the 'silver bullet' against the theists' claim God exists.

Over the years, theists had offered loads of defense against the Problem of Evil and all had failed.

What is the latest and strongest defense from theists [with references and links] to counter against the Problem of Evil.
What EXACTLY do you see is the, so called, "problem of evil"?
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:25 am Human beings can choose to do or not do evil because they have the freedom make both moral and immoral choices
This freedom exists whether or not there is a God and so in that respect it makes absolutely no difference either way
1. The POWERFUL GOD exists as real
The point is, God is claimed to be omni-whatever, e.g. omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient.

God is omnipotent that it created the whole universe and created human beings and all living things in the universe, including Earth.

God is so powerful that what GOD created are very FINELY TUNED that a 0.0000000001% error could mean the earth could disintegrate into something else.

2. The Present of Evil
IF God has the above powers,
-why don't God fine tuned the brain of all humans to give them only limited freewill such that they are inhibited from committing evil acts, like wars, genocides, mass rapes, torture of children, enslaving other humans, etc.
Is the omnipresent God seeking pleasure from seeing babies and children are tortured [sexually and others] for pleasure?

-why don't God prevent catastrophes [natural evil caused by Satan as theists claimed] that had killed millions, e.g. epidemics, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, volcanoes eruptions, meteor strikes, implosion of stars [eventually will DEFINETLY happen to our Sun], other mass killing of humans and properties, etc.

Therefore GOD exists as real is false
If such a powerful God [omni-whatever] exists [1], such a God could easily prevent evil from happening.
But there is real evil [human and natural] [2]
1 and 2 is a contradiction,
Therefore God as [1] do not exists as real.

Note historically and in the past there were loads of defenses to the above, but all had failed; what I am interested are the latest ones of shifting goal posts.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

The "Problem of Evil" is so "fatal" to the claim 'God exists as real' that its defenses has become a special subject, i.e. theodicy.
  • Theodicy (/θiːˈɒdɪsi/) means vindication of God. It is to answer the question of why a good God permits the manifestation of evil, thus resolving the issue of the problem of evil.
    Some theodicies also address the evidential problem of evil by attempting "to make the existence of an all-knowing, all-powerful and all-good or omnibenevolent God consistent with the existence of evil or suffering in the world."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy
Note the Contents of Theodicy:
  • Contents
    1 Definition and etymology
    2 Reasons for theodicy
    3 History
    • 3.1 Ancient religions
      3.1.1 Biblical theodicy
      3.2 Augustinian theodicy
      3.3 Irenaean theodicy
      3.4 Origenian theodicy
      3.5 Relatively minor theodicies
      3.6 Islamic world
    4 Alternatives
    • 4.1 Jewish anti-theodicy
      4.2 Christian alternatives to theodicy
      4.3 Free-will defense
      4.4 Cosmodicy and anthropodicy
      4.4.1 Essential kenosis
Note;
The above are the older and typical defenses, what I am interested is whether there are newer defenses where theists would have 'eel'-ed and twist around.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by Immanuel Can »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:04 am What is the latest and strongest defense from theists [with references and links] to counter against the Problem of Evil.
Turn it around.

What is the rational explanation from Atheists as to how we know evil even exists?
Skip
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by Skip »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:04 am The "Problem of Evil" has been claimed by many non-theists [atheists] to be the 'silver bullet' against the theists' claim God exists.
Really? What exactly is the problem of evil?
People do rotten things. That causes problems for other people. What's it got to do with God?
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Skip wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:07 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:04 am The "Problem of Evil" has been claimed by many non-theists [atheists] to be the 'silver bullet' against the theists' claim God exists.
Really? What exactly is the problem of evil?
People do rotten things. That causes problems for other people. What's it got to do with God?
see my above post;
viewtopic.php?p=481226#p481226
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:05 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:04 am What is the latest and strongest defense from theists [with references and links] to counter against the Problem of Evil.
Turn it around.
What is the rational explanation from Atheists as to how we know evil even exists?
see:
The Concept of Evil
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concept-evil/#:

Also note the loads and tons of empirical research on the Concept of Evil - google.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by Immanuel Can »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:26 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:05 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:04 am What is the latest and strongest defense from theists [with references and links] to counter against the Problem of Evil.
Turn it around.
What is the rational explanation from Atheists as to how we know evil even exists?
see:
The Concept of Evil
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concept-evil/#:
Oy vey.

I guess you thought I wanted somebody else's reference, rather than some thought. Perhaps you didn't understand the question.

Never mind.
gaffo
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by gaffo »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:04 am The "Problem of Evil" has been claimed by many non-theists [atheists] to be the 'silver bullet' against the theists' claim God exists.

Over the years, theists had offered loads of defense against the Problem of Evil and all had failed.

What is the latest and strongest defense from theists [with references and links] to counter against the Problem of Evil.
"I am good yet created evil"

the above is in the oldest part of the Torah.

latter parts give evil over to Belial.

and latter we have Christianity, where YHWH is all good (so not omnipotent), and Belial is to blaime for all evil.

----------

so there are two options:

1.Archaic Judaism is right and God created Evil

2. or Modern Judaism/Christianity) God is weak - all good - but canot prent evil.

those are the only options.
gaffo
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:05 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:04 am What is the latest and strongest defense from theists [with references and links] to counter against the Problem of Evil.
Turn it around.

What is the rational explanation from Atheists as to how we know evil even exists?
instinct as a social animal.

the definitio of evil is pycopathy (infinate selfishness).

so anit-social, and so not in service to a social animal and society.
Belinda
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by Belinda »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:00 am The "Problem of Evil" is so "fatal" to the claim 'God exists as real' that its defenses has become a special subject, i.e. theodicy.
  • Theodicy (/θiːˈɒdɪsi/) means vindication of God. It is to answer the question of why a good God permits the manifestation of evil, thus resolving the issue of the problem of evil.
    Some theodicies also address the evidential problem of evil by attempting "to make the existence of an all-knowing, all-powerful and all-good or omnibenevolent God consistent with the existence of evil or suffering in the world."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy
Note the Contents of Theodicy:
  • Contents
    1 Definition and etymology
    2 Reasons for theodicy
    3 History
    • 3.1 Ancient religions
      3.1.1 Biblical theodicy
      3.2 Augustinian theodicy
      3.3 Irenaean theodicy
      3.4 Origenian theodicy
      3.5 Relatively minor theodicies
      3.6 Islamic world
    4 Alternatives
    • 4.1 Jewish anti-theodicy
      4.2 Christian alternatives to theodicy
      4.3 Free-will defense
      4.4 Cosmodicy and anthropodicy
      4.4.1 Essential kenosis
Note;
The above are the older and typical defenses, what I am interested is whether there are newer defenses where theists would have 'eel'-ed and twist around.
I do appeciate your list of contents. I like orderliness.

As far as I can gather all the theodicies hang on the doctrine of Free Will, except for the deists ,and the polytheists.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:46 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:05 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:04 am What is the latest and strongest defense from theists [with references and links] to counter against the Problem of Evil.
Turn it around.

What is the rational explanation from Atheists as to how we know evil even exists?
instinct as a social animal.
What makes instinct "evil"? That's the obvious next question. And think of all instincts: not just sociability, say, but the inclination to violence or sexual opportunism -- what makes the first "good" and the last two "evil," if all are instincts?
the definitio of evil is pycopathy (infinate selfishness).
Why? Why is selfishness "evil"? For that matter, why is psychopathic selfishness "psychopathically evil" rather than, say, "exceptionally good"?
so anit-social, and so not in service to a social animal and society.
Who says we owe "service" to anybody but ourselves? Sure, it may occasionally suit us, from a selfish view, to "play along" with the sociability of others...but when one can seize an advantage, what principle guarantees one shouldn't?

After all, isn't "survival of the fittest" the point? And if it is, it means that somebody's going to be at the back of the pack for the hyenas to kill.
gaffo
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Re: The Problem of Evil

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:39 pm
gaffo wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:46 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:05 am
Turn it around.

What is the rational explanation from Atheists as to how we know evil even exists?
instinct as a social animal.
What makes instinct "evil"? That's the obvious next question. And think of all instincts: not just sociability, say, but the inclination to violence or sexual opportunism -- what makes the first "good" and the last two "evil," if all are instincts?
the definitio of evil is pycopathy (infinate selfishness).
Why? Why is selfishness "evil"? For that matter, why is psychopathic selfishness "psychopathically evil" rather than, say, "exceptionally good"?
so anit-social, and so not in service to a social animal and society.
Who says we owe "service" to anybody but ourselves? Sure, it may occasionally suit us, from a selfish view, to "play along" with the sociability of others...but when one can seize an advantage, what principle guarantees one shouldn't?

After all, isn't "survival of the fittest" the point? And if it is, it means that somebody's going to be at the back of the pack for the hyenas to kill.
I affirm evolution and survival of the fitest for all animals per the mechine of evolution.

man is a social animal - so ya selfishness is a part of that evolution, but so is community. its a balance

when one is infinatly selfish - in dissregard to othrs - thay act outside of man; instinct and is toxic to society - and so we put them in jial.

evil = infinate selfishness.

tha tis my view - and if you read your book - the bible - you would concure wiht my veiw on th nature of evil.


---------------thanks for reply - i lik eyou you have honour and heart and is a kind person - so i like taling to you.


--------btw all the missspelling is due to me buy a 4k tv with now too small text and me not being able to see the text from my couch (unlike my proir tv that was 1080) - and too lazy standing up to edit my elling from 2 ft away..............some day i may carry a chair from my kitchen to sit in front of this new tv - so i can post more legibly - but this forum's person may not be worht my time to tdo so - i.e. veg - offers nothing but vile - more like her and i shall see no reason to post here in the future.

Sculpure played the dick too in reply to me, but usually offers - something of value - ulike veg............

anyway, end rant. thanks for reply Sir.


PS - you asked me "what makes instinct evil" - nothing! - i did not say so - you did though, so i assume you think it is...............we can talk about your view of instinct if you wish - you think it is evil? i don't never said so.

Instinct is what allows survival. so good -morality is an instinct all social animals have - including man.
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